Jedi-Spirits

I believe that many people are debating on who can come back as Jedi-Spirits. I think that anyone who willingly accepts death before he/she dies will be able to reappear. Also that anyone who is fighting for a cause will not be able to reappear as a Jedi-Spirit but as a voice in the back of a force user (such as a Jedi or Sith).

Such as:

Anakin: He is a Jedi-Spirit at the end of ROTJ, just after he tells his son (Luke) that he is greatful that he had destroyed Palpatine;

Yoda: He is also a Jedi-Spirit at the end of ROTJ, because he is with Luke and is graciously accepting death;

Obi-Wan: He is another example of a Jedi-Spirit at the end of ROTJ, because he turns off his lightsaber and doesn't try to stop Vader.

Qui-Gonn: He never will be a Jedi-Spirit because he fought to his death and did not accept it. This is also why he did not dissapear as the others did.

Another theory of mine is that the 'new hope'(Luke Skywalker) is the reason that they become Jedi-Spirits because so far the only Jedis to become Jedi-Spirits are the ones that are close [phsically] to Luke Skywalker.

Any Questions?

 

I have read elswhere that Lucas has explained the spirit thing but I haven't seen his explanation.

As far as Qui-Gon accepting his death, I think he did because he specifically asked Obi-Wan to train Anakin before he died.

 

You took the words right out of my mouth JediMerlin303. I was just going to post that same theory.

 

FogeyKenobi, Lucas said in AoTC commentary that this is an important plot point that will be explained in Ep III.

Interesting theory JediMerlin. I actually think Qui Gon will appear as a spirit in Ep III to Yoda and will teach him this trick. Remember, Obi-Wan's voice was heard before his spirit was shown in the OT. Lucas loves ryhming patterns. I guess we will have to wait till Ep III to find out.

 

I don't think it is anything anyone can learn like a trick that people have been assuming it is.

From what the AOTC novel indictates, it seems to be something to do with the prophecy revolving around Anakin and the force letting those who have influence on Anakin and the ones around him be guided by their dead jedi friends and mentors, to help bring the force back to balance. Its kinda like when the force concieved Anakin in Shmi's womb, without natural conception simply because the force needed to concieve on its own, its chosen one. The force then starts making decieced jedi communicate with the living as yet another step to bring the force back to balance. Think of the line, "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." It makes sense to me.

Its something along those lines.

Because in the novel, when Yoda hears Qui-Gon's voice, it clearly states that Yoda knows for a fact that this has never happened before to a jedi (being able to communicate with the living from beyond the grave).

 

Here check these out. They give some insight how the jedi learn to retain their identity after death.

http://www.starwars.com/episode-v/classic/2000/03/classic20000320.html

http://www.starwars.com/episode-vi/classic/2001/07/classic20010730.html

The second one states that we will never see how Obi-Wan learns this, but it doesn't say we won't see how someonelse learns how to do it. I think that Qui-Gon's link to the living-force is a possible reason as to how Yoda hears QGJ's voice during meditation. However, I do believe that any jedi can do this once they believe it's possible. That's why Anakin/Vader does it in ROTJ. He saw Obi-Wan do it in ANH.

K

 

But Anakin didn't believed that it was possible because he doesn't know that a Jedi can vanish upon death. He has seen Qui-Gon's body being burned to a crisp and his fellow Jedi die in front of him on Geonosis but when he killed Obi-wan, he was shocked to see that only the robes remained.

You can tell when he was stepping on the robes.

 

PMT99
Right. I agree with you. Sorry if I'm not portraying my thoughts clearly. I'll try to do better. I'm saying that Vader realized that it is possible after ANH. ESB-"OBI-WAN has taught you well..."". They do not know about Yoda teaching Luke. I think Vader sees Obi-Wan vanish and then later, might come to the conclusion that Obi-Wan keeps teaching Luke.(That's how Luke keeps getting more powerful) "Strike me down now, and I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." Now I'm just assuming these things and this has been my take on the Force Ghost thing for many a year. As for the PT... nobody realizes that they can do this...so far as we've seen. I
guess the only one to have an idea is Yoda.

K

 

I am doing this to reinstate the message.. Thank you for your thoughts... Anything else???

 

I think it has something to do with the Dark Side.

Like an impure or tainted spirit can't pass into the Force and become one with everything without leaving it's physical form behind which needs to be destroyed (ie: cremated) before they can move on while Jedi who are clean of Dark Side influence have an ability to leave no physical form behind.

It's like a reward for living a Dark Side-free existence.

Yoda and Obi-Wan both managed to steer well clear of the Dark Side during their lives but it's possible that Qui-Gon (in a moment of arrogance or pride) touched the Dark Side without meaning to, he seemed like the kind of guy who could have if the circumstances were right. Vader certainly did without question. Vader, having redeemed himself, appears through the Force only after his body is cremated.

I wonder if/when Count Dooku dies, what will happen to his body?

 

>>>> I think that Qui-Gon's link to the living-force is a possible reason as to how Yoda hears QGJ's voice during meditation.

Qui-Gon?s link to the living Force has to be the key to retaining his identity. Lucas has said that there are two aspects of the Force: the cosmic Force and the living Force. In George?s own words, the cosmic Force is the ?spirit of life,? while the living Force represents the ?physical manifestation of life.? He also says that in SW all life-forms become one with the cosmic Force when they die and lose all identity (he also says that when the characters talk about the good side and the dark side of the Force, these are references to the cosmic Force). The thing that happens with Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin is that, because of their connection to the living Force, because of their connection to the ?physical manifestation of life,? they become one with the living Force, and as a side-effect they are able to retain their identities after their physical death.

What?s more, I think that only those individuals who are themselves ?mindful of the living Force? can see and hear those who have retained their identity. I think Yoda is just starting to dabble in the Living Force in AOTC, probably because he realizes that the dark side has grown to be the dominating aspect of the cosmic Force. In other words, the cosmic Force is no longer the ally that it once had been, so Yoda starts to make the effort to really understand people and to truly live by the Jedi principle of compassion. Thus he is able to hear Qui-Gon for the first time and accordingly he will be able to retain his own identity after physical death. (This is also what I think George meant by Yoda teaching Obi-Wan how to retain his identity. Yoda simply teaches Obi-Wan about compassion and understanding. Likewise, Obi-Wan is able to pass on to Anakin?through Luke?this very same lesson.)

 

I have read a piece of information somewhere which reads: They gazed on at Qui-Gons burning body. after it had been turned to ash, doves were released and the ashes were gone.


This is similar to the "disappearing" seen with the others. i also read that all dead-but-not-disappeared jedi/sith are cremated in this way, like darth vader/anakin for example.

 

"I think that anyone who willingly accepts death before he/she dies will be able to reappear. Also that anyone who is fighting for a cause will not be able to reappear as a Jedi-Spirit but as a voice in the back of a force user (such as a Jedi or Sith)."

Are you saying that no Jedi prior to Gui-gon ever did this?

"I have read elswhere that Lucas has explained the spirit thing but I haven't seen his explanation."

He's not done so specifically, but alludes to an explanation in Ep.III.

"Because in the novel, when Yoda hears Qui-Gon's voice, it clearly states that Yoda knows for a fact that this has never happened before to a jedi (being able to communicate with the living from beyond the grave)."

Almost right. It's the ability to retain one's identity in the Force.

"It's like a reward for living a Dark Side-free existence."

And again, I ask - have no other Jedi prior to Qui-gon done this?

"Qui-Gon?s link to the living Force has to be the key to retaining his identity. Lucas has said that there are two aspects of the Force: the cosmic Force and the living Force. In George?s own words, the cosmic Force is the -spirit of life,- while the living Force represents the "physical manifestation of life." He also says that in SW all life-forms become one with the cosmic Force when they die and lose all identity (he also says that when the characters talk about the good side and the dark side of the Force, these are references to the cosmic Force). The thing that happens with Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin is that, because of their connection to the living Force, because of their connection to the "physical manifestation of life," they become one with the living Force, and as a side-effect they are able to retain their identities after their physical death."

Agreed. Among everything else the Jedi were wrong about, they were also wrong about their devotion to one aspect of the Force, when they should have considered all aspects.

This is the "lesson" that Qui-gon will teach Yoda, who in turn will teach Obi-wan. Even if Anakin were to know about this, he would never be capable of it until his sacrifice at the end of ROTJ, because it goes against everything he believes (or is led to believe by Palpatine.)