ST JJ Abrams directing Episode IX Discussion

I know. Honestly, it is absolutely ridiculous if anyone believes that Reddit bile. People who had all those same problems (Luke's "character assassination" and death, Snoke not being important in the grand scheme of things, Rey being a "nobody") are allowing themselves to be manipulated by a message board loser. Wake up.

 

You just obliterated any validity you had with that moronic comment. I've read countless criticisms about TLJ and hardly any complain about Ray or Finn. Most are about the direction the story is going, how they haven't addressed any questions created in TFA, and that they've pretty much obliterated the OT characters personas making them look stupid and/or cowardly. You shouldn't try to shame people into falling in line with your opinion.

 

The newest rumors stem from a Collider podcast that had Ben Bateman (a Journalist) on as a guest. All that Bateman said was that he heard stories that Trevorrow was excused from Episode IX after requesting changes to TLJ.

Everything else is clickbait. It was an extremely vague comment.

 

Exactly. All that Bateman said was hearing about that CT requested changes to TLJ. Not what those changes were. It's as good as no rumor at all. So someone took that and compilation of CT's old quotes and Mark quotes and constructed a clickbait without any insider knowledge. Anyone could do that.

neither thing is worth buzzing about. One is fake and the other is too general to mean anything and even if it was specific the movies are going in different direction so no point beating the dead horse. Mulling over what if scenarios won't make anyone happy. It's done, move on.

 

Outrageous. This is a demonstration of people who just don't want to criticize anything, that's all.

Rumors with not much explanation? Sure. But it's clear CT requested changes to TLJ, as admitted, and it's also true that Mark Hamill said he was talking to Colin and they were on the same page for the character. That's pretty damning evidence and confirmation that CT had a different vision for Luke than the one that has been chosen. Not sure why that's so hard to admit. I guess if you're a gusher, everything is perfect and nothing is flawed.

That has every right to be discussed. Do not pressure people to change the subject just so you don't have to read dissenting posts.

Now we get to see what JJ's plans are for IX and how they wrap up the trilogy and the characters' stories.

 

Correlation is not causation. So, because Colin requested changes to TLJ combined with the fact that MH stated in one interview "we were on the same page in terms of how we wanted to see Luke in a way we've never seen him" that must mean that Colin wanted Luke alive and Lucasfilm didn't, and therefore, Colin was fired? That's not a fair conclusion to jump to.

Lucasfilm and Colin could have had a disagreement on any other character direction or story point, or combinations of these things and that's where they decided to part ways. There is nothing that suggests that Colin wanted Luke alive, and that's why he was fired. In fact to me, Mark's comment suggests the opposite. See Luke in a way we've never seen him. Now that we know Luke has become a force ghost, that particular line still rings very true. Maybe Colin had a different plan for force ghost Luke than Lucasfilm had imagined. Maybe not.

People are getting upset because the 'evidence' presented to come to such conclusions is based on speculation combined with out of context quotes. It's not convincing evidence at all.

 

That’s not what evidence is. They are independent of one another and do not automatically correlate because they are about the same thing.

CT requested changes and MH liked the script. You can’t then ignore the fact that the script was written after RJ had locked in his and probably close to wrapping up principle photography. He knew what TLJ was going to be and would’ve written his script accordingly.

There is no evidence that CT demanded Luke live, Snoke live and give Rey a “better” parentage reveal. Those are not small changes like switching BB-8 and R2 at the end of TFA, those are major plot points which change the entire narrative. Given that by the time CT was writing his script RJ would already be close to finished filming, asking these changes at this stage would mean an entire rewrite and halting production.

Either the logical thing is that CT asked for minor changes similar to what I mentioned before and Mark liked the overall story as well as how Luke was handled post TLJ, or the irrational thing is that CT could not work a script and wanted TLJ to completely change after it was pretty much a lock. It’s a ridiculous assessment. I don’t particularly like CT as a director but I feel that he is level headed and professional enough to not request complete rewrites of the movie proceeding his just so he can tell his story.

Blaming gushers does not help the point either when the conclusion being reached is at very best grasping at straws.

 

Here we go.

CT came aboard knowing Luke died. He wasn't fired because he kept pushing to have that changed. Come on.

I've heard that CT's writing partner was a major sticking point in the relationship, and that it had become fractious for some time. How accurate that is, I can't confirm. But it seems like for whatever reason, Carrie's passing impacted on CT's plans, and whatever he and his co-writer were trying to do wasn't cutting the mustard. All this around the time that Book of Henry was stinking up the joint. If CT had been able to deliver something that KK liked, he'd be shooting now. He couldn't, and he isn't. And I'm not sure why anyone feels that's not a good thing. He was always the least inspiring decision KK has made. If you think RJ's film is divisive, I dread to think what CT would have offered up.

 

Yeah. I heard that CT was also demanding to have it changed so that Vader wasn't Luke's father.

 

I heard CT was going to make episode 9 perfect for every fan, and retroactively achieve the same for TLJ as well. He's THAT good. Sounds legit.

 

Funny I have never seen someone who is a 'gusher' suggest TLJ is, in any way, perfect.

 

TLJ is not perfect.

I must have missed the memo that made it clear cinematic perfection for every member of the audience was the bar every new film has to clear.

 

I think people are getting mixed up with the timing of things here. Rian Johnson began work on TLJ in the summer of 2014 (before TFA had even finished filming), and submitted his first proper draft of the script in June 2015. I think it's safe to say that Luke died in that draft, as everything we've heard suggests that the script didn't change drastically from the first rough draft that Johnson started with. Trevorrow was announced as the director of Episode 9 in August 2015. He would've been well aware from the beginning that Luke was going to die in Episode 8 (which began filming in February 2016 and finished in July 2016). It was over a year after TLJ finished filming (and two years after he was announced as director) that Trevorrow was eventually fired. If he was asking for radical changes to Luke's role in TLJ, especially if it went as far as not wanting him to die, that conversation would've happened long before he was fired, probably at least 18 months before, maybe even soon after he came on board two years earlier. He's not going to have been asking for major changes like that in the summer of 2017, when TLJ had finished filming like a year before. Maybe he asked for some small changes but they're unlikely to be the reason for his firing (Johnson could've just said no). It's far more likely to be the problems he was having with adapting the script after Carrie Fisher passed away, perhaps also there were other areas of the script they weren't happy with, and if the working relationship with KK / Lucasfilm wasn't great either, there would be less goodwill to try and help each other fix it.

Mark Hamill saying that they 'were on the same page' just means they broadly agreed on what Luke should be doing in Episode 9, not that they both hated what he did in Episode 8. Whoever was brought on board for Episode 9 would've known from quite early on that Luke was going to die, and would've been planning their script based on that. The only way there could be any element of truth in all this is if Trevorrow's solution to having Leia missing from the film would be to alter the ending of TLJ to be ambiguous, so that Luke could perhaps have survived, so you would still have one of the original characters left in the third movie. I still think that's unlikely, but if true they were right to refuse as it would completely undermine the ending of the film. But again, even if this was true it's unlikely to be the reason for his firing, it's much more likely to be that the script overall wasn't working and the working relationships had broken down.

 

Yes, PW. And I love the assumption that Mark won't/ can't like what JJ and Terrio have lined up for Luke.

 

There wasn't a script for Mark "to see," they just talked with CT about ideas for IX. (Even first draft just after Fisher's death). And it's obvious that the main problem with CT in pre-production was writing the script.

CT is not experienced writer as RJ. He did not write "Safety Not Guaranteed," his most successful movie, he just directed it. "Jurassic World" is completely different case (3-4 writers) and it had rather weak script.

The fact that CT was out in September after they hired Thorne as script doctor in July is all we need to know. Writing process was a mess. CT and his writer couldn't make their ideas to work in the script and ST story, and LF got tired of it.

 

No assumption there. Don't make things up. Nobody has any idea what JJ and Chris have lined up yet; it's very possible MH could love it.

Also, I may have not taken into account the timing before, but...

According to Wikipedia, TLJ script wasn't completed until November 2015 whereas Trevorrow and Derek Connally began work on Episode IX around August of 2015, before TLJ script was done. It is absolutely possible that Trevorrow wanted to do certain things and requested that TLJ be made to fit what he wanted to do. At the same time, he was kept on far beyond the final script of TLJ and given more chances to write a story, and then was let go when wasn't able to satisfy Lucasfilm as a writer or director.

 

No movie is perfect, but it is absolutely my favorite Star Wars movie. Yeah - I said it. Better than Empire.

 

TLJ story was cracked way before November 2015. Story was broken (as in hashed out) while TFA was still filming in 2013, and the first draft of the script delivered early 2014, spring at the latest. Trevorrow had already spoken of the one change he requested that RJ shot (I'm guessing, but it may have been the insert of Rey with the sacred texts). So he was clearly fine with the story at that point. It's possible he asked for Luke to survive during a rethink post Carrie dying and that was turned down, though to me it seems unlikely, and would not have been a defining factor in CT leaving the project - though it could conceivably have been the straw that broke the camel's back - for LFL. Mark and CT aligning on "a Luke we've never seen before" seems consistent with the hooks for Luke that RJ put at the end of TLJ - ie plenty of possibilities now that Luke is more powerful than we can imagine. All I've heard on TLJ and RJ is that LFL were delighted start to finish. CT, not so much. And clearly, in the end, he couldn't deliver. We've seen what happens if you can't deliver. RJ and JJ are the rare two so far.

 

So...

 

That makes sense. Early on, I thought they said something about having the structure of the entire ST loosely made, then it became, three completely independent works by three different writer/directors (before Trev was cut loose).

 

@afrojedi but that is intriguing...
no matter how much one my like or dislike TLJ, I think there are things we don't know and we will never know.
About Trevorrow too.

 

https://www.socalmuse.com/jj-abrams-gives-us-an-update-on-star-wars/

 

So it isn't fully done yet?

 

Things change a little bit when they start shooting that's why he says "fluid". Also, fends off "leakers".

 

I get the feeling Colin challenged some hardstops on the trilogy that were set up by JJ, Kasdan and Kennedy and thats why he was fired. Assuming what Daisy says is true (somehow it makes sense, they had to have somewhat of an idea on where the trilogy starts and where it ends).