ST John Boyega (Finn) in Episode IX

John is so funny.

 

Nominated.

 

But it's an honor to be "nominated," no?

 

You know, I'm not one who expects JJ to retcon or "fix" anything that happened in TLJ. I genuinely love 90% of the film, but if there's one thing I disagree with in Rian's vision it's his decision to elevate a minor character at Finn's expense. I'm talking about Poe, the hotshot Gary Stue pilot who really should have just kicked the bucket on Jakku in TFA. He was dead weight going into VIII and through a combination of Carrie Fisher's health and Oscar's charm he somehow got promoted to Finn-status. Just... WTF? I always knew TLJ would feel like two films, the emotional Rey and Kylo movie (which turned out to be as gorgeous and inspired as I was hoping for two years) combined with a more light-hearted dynamic to create a balance. I expected that other dynamic to be Finn and Rose, and it is... to an extent. But I swear there are times when TLJ feels like the Rey and Kylo movie contrasted with the Poe movie.

I used to see fear of Kylo stealing Finn's thunder as a "male lead", but realistically Kylo was always going to be a leading man because he's the last Skywalker -- something I deeply believed despite two years of being told Rey had to be Luke's spawn. Ironically it wasn't Kylo's side of the narrative that took from Finn's potential, it was Poe's.

I don't completely blame Rian for this outcome. I think he was in a tough position with Carrie and needed a quick solution, but many times Poe came on-screen I felt as though I should have been seeing Finn instead. And it's lame because Poe's whole plot is often considered the worst or one of the worst parts of the film (barring Holdo's awesome hyperspace jump).

I still love Finn as a character and I really enjoyed his development with Rose. They're very sweet together and compliment each other beautifully. Finn's passivity around her is different... a nice subversion of typical gender dynamics in blockbusters. The fathier chase is actually one of my favourite scenes, especially the bit where the herd runs in front of the moon on the beach and Finn and Rose's theme swells in the background, but I hope JJ demotes Poe back to supporting character so Finn and Rose can shine much more in IX. Poe will never have an impact on my favourites (Rey and Kylo), but I've still got my fingers crossed for Finn orchestrating a Stormtrooper rebellion of some kind. Perhaps this can be the cause of some inner conflict in the Resistance and tension in his relationship with Rose.

 

Poe's story is essential in many ways. But it also brings Leia to the forefront.

In the years offscreen, leading up to TFA, it makes sense that Leia attaches herself to Poe, seeing as how she lost Ben.

She becomes his mentor, and it makes sense that she sees in him the fire, that he is the next generation Resistance and she wants to pass the torch to him after growing pains.

Leia just couldn't have that relationship with Finn that she has with Poe.

In a ways, Poe is like her substitute son that she lost. While Leia is the substitute mother he lost when he was 8.

If you want to compare Kylo as the shadow to the heroes. Poe is essentially what Ben could have been, if he never had the Force and was never targeted by Snoke.

 

I didn't post this here (in the Finn in IX thread) to discuss the merits of Poe's role in TLJ. I don't dislike him by any means but the attempts to defend his upped screen-time at the expense of more interesting and impactful characters is something I'll never agree with. And saying Leia needs a replacement son when this trilogy is really all about Rey, Kylo and the Skywalker family drama at the end of the day... sorry, but nah. I agree that Poe is a child figure to Leia (it's obvious), but ultimately the story is still going to be the story.

 

Finn fans were never worried about Kylo or Poe having increased screen time. It was Luke's we were worried about. As his importance and presence would surely take away from Finn's.

And they were right.

@JediAce1 even made a thread about it last year on if Finn or Luke were going to be the male lead of TLJ.

Ultimately it was Luke. As LucasFilm's considerations for nominations showed:

Daisy Ridley for best lead actress
Mark Hamill for best lead actor

While LucasFilm had everyone else considered as supporting actors and actresses.

But now with Luke's death, and surely reduced screen time as a force ghost for Episode IX. I personally don't believe we should be as worried for Finn as we were with TLJ.

Edit: a lot of that worry came from the 2016 BAFTA Awards only considering Harrison Ford as lead actor, despite coming in half way through the film.

With TLJ, we knew Mark Hamill was in the film from the beginning.

 

So seriously guys. What do you think Finn will be doing in Episode IX? And I mean for him as a character, like positions and such.

Really. Just throw some stuff out there. Surely they'll be more busy than ever. And I"m hoping for a RotJ type thing where it shows everyone working together. And if that's the case. Do you think he'll be perhaps a gunner on the Falcon? A sniper? A "gunslinger" so to speak (since he was robbed of that in TLJ). Or maybe a jack-of-all-trades like Kyle Katarn (w/ or w/o being FS).

I'm holding out hope for some ungodly reason that the boulder scene on Crait gave him something to work with. Idk. Don't bash me because of it.

 

I'm not sure what you mean with the boulder scene.

But Boyega keeps bringing up being the gunslinger, and a Bobba-Fett-type-vibe.

I picture him being on the Resistance front lines. And being something of the Rebellion version of Phasma (in ideal, not previous execution).

Leading the troops on the front lines. You can see him start that mentally toward the end of TLJ.

 

You know how Finn was running towards Rey and how the rocks moved so fluidly and smoothly away from him as he was running. Almost like he was subconsciously...Idk. It's just me getting my hopes up.

But yeah I don't mind him leading a stormtrooper revolt and going undercover again if he has to get it done. As long as he's allowed to really stand out on his own, and do something truly remarkable that his friends couldn't just do themselves. Also, I know I've said over and over again that I want the heroes to be together, and I still hope it happens, but Finn does need a few scenes on his own. In TLJ he never had a moment to himself besides when he woke up (and fell on the floor...smh). Don't have him stuck with Rose pushing him around, and don't have him bumbling after Rey. Let him be his own character, but also let all the characters work well together.

John was talking during the premiere about how Finn's totally gonna be a badass later on but it's like...a badass is normally able to stand out in some ways. On Crait, Finn looked and basically acted just like any old rugged Resistance member. He didn't stand out in any remarkable way at all besides the whole sacrifice thing, but even that wasn't that great in execution. After that he was pretty much useless just like the rest of the Resistance members, left waiting for the Force users to bail them out.

I'm just hoping they're able to do something a little bit more fresh and versatile after that. Seriously how long do we have to wait for a satisfying arc for Finn? I feel like he still has yet to end the movie with a win. (A literal one. Not some philosophical one)

 

It is a shame though.

After TFA, you did see some (not a lot) of people with videos and such, theorizing what would happen with Finn in Episode VIII.

There is absolutely none right now for him going into to Episode IX.

 

@cerealbox Pretty much. Rey's the Jedi, Poe's probably gonna be the new Leia position when it comes to leadership. But Finn... Now I get why so many people want him to liberate the stormtroopers. See, I had so much hope Rian was gonna give him a fulfilling storyline in TLJ, so I didn't really think about it. But now I feel like it's the only way to ever set him apart from anyone else.

I honestly can't think of anything else he could do at this point. I mean I guess I wouldn't mind him catching up to DJ to get back at him, but even that would probably be a tad underwhelming and forced. Pretty sure no one cares what happens to DJ at this point. They'll probably revisit that again in a comic.

So honestly him going back once again (despite his friends telling him not to?) and leading the revolt that destroys the FO's army from the inside is what it'll have to be. I mean seriously. What else can he do that no one else has done?

It's so weird that in Battlefront II, even DICE could emphasize Finn's shooting ability, yet Rian chose not to do anything with that.

 

I was hoping for some inner-thoughts for Finn when it comes to the novelization for TLJ. But... Rian has his fingers in that too.
I was really looking forward to it.

 

I thought someone else was writing the novel? Wasn't it Jason Fry or something idk. But if it's Rian then yeah I gotta say I don't expect anything worth talking about.

 

Lol. That was Rey moving the boulders out of the way so Finn wouldn't get squashed.

 

Leave me alone. Lol

 

Lol. Wow, cerealbox it looks like TLJ has completely removed all optimism you had left for Finn. Can't say I blame you though, it seems like LucasFilm and Rian Johnson are completely dead set on giving Finn the bare-minimum in relevance.

 

Only the optimism of him being a force user

 

That's why I'm here haha.

I wonder if this is just his way of trying to explain some of his writing decisions. Otherwise I don't know why he'd want to be apart of the process. I think JJ may have given some notes for TFAs novelization but that's it...

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@GauntGrandMoff Yeah, I'm hoping that JJ had some idea of where Finn would end up, since he had a big part of the creation of the character. I get sad whenever I think of the line from the novel when Finn first gets the lightsaber.
It was something like, "Was he worthy to wield such a weapon? Only time would tell." And then something about it feeling right in his hand. *sigh* For all of JJ's faults, I have to admit that he at least created a character that showed a lot of potential and had people speculating. Finn was the one character from TFA that could've ended up anywhere.

Don't get me wrong, he certainly still can, but the build up isn't really there anymore. It's less about Finn being the "wild-card," and more about no one even knowing where he fits in at this point.

The only character Rian only thought of was Kylo. I even looked back at some of JJ's older interviews for TFA and the difference between him and Rian was glaring. With JJ he'd talk about Finn and Rey as the new heroes, and how he wanted the new characters to represent the real world when it came to diversity; and his history and appreciation for John showed. With Rian it was either half-truths (that turned out to be lies basically), how great/relatable Kylo Ren is, or more recently, bi-weekly interviews trying to explain (badly) every single scene in the movie. Or teasing us with cut scenes that would've been extremely better =_=

 

I dont think JJ was any better writing Finn. His focus was clearly on Rey and it showed in the writing of their scenes together.

Rian treated Finn the same way JJ treated him in respect to being a hero. JJ may have called Finn a hero off- screen, he never showed that in his writing , it was always Rey.
Rian actually called Finn a hero in TLJ(through Rose) and wrote him as one.

But i think the real problem is that our new heroes got overshadowed by the skywalker family drama.
Even in TFA , Rey and Finn's adventure was about Rey and Finn until Han Solo entered. After that it all became Solo family drama , and Finn Rey became outsiders watching and suffering for it.
TLJ was all about Kylo and Luke conflict, and everything paled in front of it.

Kylo is the big bad and the last skywalker/solo , he will get focus either way. I have accepted that. I dont fault Rian for it nor will i fault JJ for 9.

This is the skywalker saga but our heroes are not, thats why they feel sidelined.
Their conflicts pale in comparison to Kylo's even when they have more screentime. So he feels more important than our heroes , which is really off putting sometimes.

Now its our nobody heroes vs bad skywalker. Lets hope JJ focuses on our heroes' conflicts and struggles more than the Kylo's. Or else Kylo's arc will again overshadow our heroes.

 

Yeah that's one thing that always bugged me. We get virtually nothing on Finn's background as a stormtrooper or his near-fatal injury. With Rey, she has one (or twoish?) half-assed scenes about her parents that didn't do anything except reduce her to a sniffling teary-eyed mess, and then like two seconds later she's in the Falcon super happy and jovial like nothing happened

But with Kylo, for some reason, the scar is given enough attention to feel significant, his shaky backstory, and Han's death is used for his development instead of Rey or Finn's. I really don't get that. You're right when you say that Rian made Kylo's pain and development more of a priority over the heroes. Hell even after Kylo technically wins it's still about his victimhood in the end.

 

I think Finn will LEAD the resistance bcoz Poe is still in his "burn down FO" mode.

Finn was given the lesson of "saving what we love not destroying what we hate" for a reason.

 

It's a bit off topic but with the Solo movie zooming in, I wonder if we won't see some parallels between Solo & Fn-2187. They are both defectors from the Empire/FO and it could be interesting to see some similarities between young Han and our favorite stormtrooper.