ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

Wow...this really is the movie that defines the Trump current era. We have diverse casting, hints at casual sexism, the space nazis being villains, most of the male characters making stupid decisions, Poe getting called out for his more hotheaded qualities, female characters pretty much saving the day and calling out their male counterparts on their crap, Finn overthrowing his oppressor, Kylo Ren's toxic masculinity, and the older generation getting called out by the younger generation for their mistakes and learning from them.

Huh. I wonder how this movie is going to be remembered 15-20 years from now.

 

John's reaction to the shrinking of Finn's image on the Chinese TFA poster

 

The excitement around Boyega about Finn reflects my excitement for the PT when TFA came out. It hit most of the right notes. Hopefully the ST gets back to that quality with Finn - which wasn't the case in TLJ.

JJ saying Finn would be the new star of Star Wars (which was the case in TFA) to what RJ made him in TLJ.... 2nd most irritating thing about the whole movie - and the list is long.

 

Hmmm...J.J Abrams telling John Boyega that he's "the new star of Star Wars" is rather interesting. I mean, it's not necessarily untrue (at least if we're only talking TFA) but he's about as much of "the star" as Han Solo or Obi-Wan were in ANH and the PT respectively, and not nearly as popular as either one of them.

It does, however, make me a little more hopeful for what he has in store for Finn in Episode IX. Most already know that I'm not in agreement with the idea that RJ didn't care about Finn's character, but I think that going back to JJ would be great for both Finn and JB. Some writers and directors just have a better handle on characters than others.

 

I can still give JJ the benefit of doubt in wanting Finn to pivot and show growth after TFA. There were certainly moments in TFA that hinted toward's Finn's potential. Resisting conditioning, shooting down a missile with a weapon he had 2 minutes of verbal training on, not missing a shot with the blaster, hearing the cries of Hosnian Prime's inhabitants before it happens, holding his own with Kylo Ren with a lightsaber, etc.. In contrast, I don't think RJ had much interest in Finn, because aside from his sanitation experience, he didn't bother to explore any of those things mentioned above in the subsequent episode. RJ put Finn in a side plot without any growth confidence, or momentum coming from the things he accomplished in TFA. RJ used Finn's knowledge of the FO systems, as a means to send him on a fruitless side quest and to provide the viewers with comedic (albeit bad) relief.

 

Oh trust me, I am not trying to contribute to the Finn-hate train when I compare him to Han and Obi-Wan. I mean, Han Solo is the best character in ANH and I think Finn is the best character in TFA. As far as Obi-Wan's role, I was referring more to the Prequel Trilogy than ANH. I think Finn is definitely more akin to the latter in both TFA and TLJ. Even if Finn's arc in TLJ is as superfluous as people say it is, he's still always on the field and in the middle of the action like Obi-Wan was in TPM and AOTC. Although, I admit that I haven't seen Clones in a very long time.

That being said, while Finn's storyline is meatier...Rey still is the hero at the end of the day. Rey is the one that defeats Kylo Ren, while Finn quite literally gets his arc cut short. I mean, the "COME AND GET IT" line is his moment of badass (and I love it) but it's still outshined by Rey's force-pull. My point is that Rey is given those star moments. Those "use the force, Luke" moments, if you get what I mean.

Yeah, RJ did do Finn a bit of a disservice by not focusing on his skills as much. The deleted fight scene showed Finn using his marksmanship and cunning to defeat Phasma and it's much better display of his awesomeness. Finn is by no means useless in either film, but the fact that so many of Finn's moments were cut from the film really make his arc seem rushed and a bit choppy. I like it more than others, obviously, but even I see the flaws.

 

Unfortunately deleted scenes carry the same weight in canon as my own head canon. It also provides insight into the things that RJ thought were the most expendable. So far both movies have done a disservice to Boyega's contributions as Finn by either cutting, altering or minimizing his original 'bolder' arc.

 

I don't think that means he thought it was expendable, because he's also the one that wrote those scenes in the first place. The movie can only be so long. Plus, pace and flow really effect how a movie is edited. Also what the people above him like. Rey's "third lesson" was deleted because Luke came off too mean and Daisy talks about how long it took to get that scene right and the extra time RJ took for her to get it right. I think he left too much on the cutting room floor for me personally ( I think JJ should have found a way to put it that skb chase scene too) but I don't think we can glean whether or not he cares about characters from what scenes were cut.

 

Personally, Finn’s arc being chopped is unfortunate and a bit annoyig but I really can’t see his deleted scenes helping the reception of his storyline all that much (except for the Phasma confrontation). People would still call it the weakest subplot simply because of Canto Bight and Rose. And the fact that the Jedi/Luke stuff is what most people want to see anyway. The only other thing it would probably provided is a bit more context as to where his loyalties lie at the beginning of the film. That scene he has with Poe and the moment where BB-8 shows Rey saying goodbye to him would have been a great way to show what lead him to leaving the fleet, but anyone can read between the lines and figure that out for themselves.

I really do think TLJ would benefit from a Director’s Cut release, though. It’s kind of ridiculous and a huge missed opportunity that there isn’t one.

 

It just seems that in both movies, some of Finn's best stuff gets cut. That leads me to believe in the scheme of things, having him show growth, and having agency are worthy of being cut, because those scenes actually get cut. RJ cutting him is compounded by the fact that his movie is the longest SW movie in the franchise.

 

Oddly enough, Finn still manages to have more screetime than the majority of characters other than Luke and Rey.

 

I think part of the problem with this trilogy is sentiments like the bolded being taken as absolute fact. I think most people didn't expect Luke to have a protagonist arc. You know the part of the trailer that got me the most pumped? Finn/Phasma. Not the Luke/Jedi stuff. The Star Wars website even had a poll asking what people were most excited about, and the Finn/Phasma scene traded first place with the reylo scene. I realize all that demonstrates is a war of online fandoms, but at the same time, yes people were excited about the new characters after TFA, and Finn was a big part of that. In the post-TFA article polls, Finn was the second most popular character coming out of that movie, yes above Kylo Ren. It took a couple months for the Kylo fandom to organize.

And if RJ felt that people only cared about the Jedi stuff while still needing to write for Finn, you know what the answer is? Intertwine the stories so they're connected, so Finn's was relevant to the Jedi side and the Jedi side was relevant to Finn's story. All the other SW films have managed to do that when separating the main cast members. It was RJ's choice to extract Finn from the story he was central to in TFA and to put him in an irrelevant side plot. It is not the fault of the audience for supposedly not being as interested in Finn, which I think isn't remotely true.

 

I'd rather Finn have half the time being shown and his character is crushing it, than for him to have the majority of screen time and he's put in meaningless side plots and used for comedic relief. I'd rather be frustrated because he's a great character and they aren't showing enough of him.

 

I guess this is where different internet experiences create dissonance. I did not see much excitement for Finn's arc other than the possibility of him ending up with Poe and that was vastly outweighed by the speculation for Luke's line "It's time for the Jedi...to end." I also didn't see Finn being all that popular. He's well-liked, but I always felt that Rey and Kylo were easily more popular.

To be honest, I hate the notion that we even need to choose between the two.

 

I saw a ton of excitement for Finn’s arc all over the place. Similarly, a ton of disappointment in the movie has to do with Finn. Speculation is a different thing, but people were heavily speculating about Finn after TFA just as they were prior to TFA (though some/many felt the need to insult/belittle fans for their speculation).

If you’re limiting this to the TLJ trailer, Finn was barely in the trailer, which is 100% on RJ who chose to completely sideline him and make his scenes unappealing for the trailer editors. Despite barely being in the trailer, the Finn/Phasma moment generated the most feedback (with Reylo) when SW.com asked the internet what the best part was. RJ chose to remove Finn from the teaser poster. RJ chose to focus his excitement on Kylo, Luke and Rey (in that order) in his pre-TLJ interviews. None of the above speaks to audience lack of interest in Finn. It speaks to RJ’s lack of interest in Finn.

I think Reylo fans are more vocal than everyone by far, but I don’t think the Kylo fanbase represents the masses even remotely. The rottentomatoes post-TFA favorite character poll had Finn ahead of Kylo until the public frenzy for TFA died down and internet fandoms took over. I have never met anyone in normal world to rival the Kylo fans on the internet, while Finn was the Everyman in TFA.

Imo, Finn has a ton of mainstream appeal and he was more popular immediately following TFA’s release than Kylo, absolutely shocking LF. I feel like what you are expressing here easily represents RJ’s perspective on Finn, but I think it’s the wrong read. I think RJ’s biggest miss was separating Rey and Finn the entire movie, both physically and in their stories/motives. That was a miss precisely because specifically the Finn/Rey bond was the emotional core of the previous movie and had the most emotional investment for the general audience. Treating Finn the way RJ did wasn’t just a misread of the audience. It destroyed the heart that TFA brought to this trilogy, which Finn was a necessary and key part of.

 

2018: A Star Wars Story.

 

@AhsokaSolo Just to clarify, it was Kathleen, not Rian, that chose the teaser poster to only have Rey, Luke and Kylo.

 

Source?

 

Well, that's nice to know that Finn did have some genuine popularity post-TFA. Then again, all of the new characters were pretty popular at that point, hence why Poe Dameron got a more expanded role in TLJ. However, I'm only going off of my own experiences with the internet and critic reviews. I've been defending Finn's character in discussions for about 3 years now. I remember most of Finn's popularity being chalked up to his chemistry with Poe, while Rey and Kylo mostly dominated the conversation for better or worse.

Lol this is probably the nicest thing I've ever seen you post about TLJ, RJ, and Finn's character arc altogether.

Honestly, Finn would benefit from having his role in the story be more defined. TLJ is a much more ensemble film than TFA. In TFA, you know who the movie is about. In TLJ, the story tries to give everyone an arc and a perspective. And some are more pronounced than others.

 

I’m also on the internet, and I’ve also read lots of critical reviews. FinnRey’s chemistry specifically was a highlight of the reviews of TFA. I obviously disagree with your assessment that the reviews were focused on FinnPoe. I suspect you are confusing fanfic communities with critics.

As far as the internet, Reylo fans are loud and some are often loudly dismissive of Finn’s role in the trilogy. I know because I’ve been on the internet since TFA and engaged in countless conversations that end up exactly there. But again, they are not representative of the masses. They do not negate the existence of people that enjoyed Finn and express that all over the internet. Those loud fans don’t erase the polls, the excitement, the tweets, the tumblrs, etc., for this character specifically. Finn’s threads across this forum have pages and pages of discussion. His page count in this specific forum dwarfs Kylo’s and is almost as high as Rey’s. You might say that most Kylo posts are in the Rey/Kylo thread, but that just supports my point. Shipping fandoms are engaged very differently from mainstream fans. They are not representative of the broader audience. They’re louder than they are more numerous. It was always a mistake in my eye for LF to cater to Tumblr, and I think TLJ bears that out.

 

Not really. Finn and Poe's chemistry made news headlines and was mentioned in tons of ST coverage. I'm not confusing anything with anything. That being said, I may be understating Finn's popularity a little bit, but that's only because it really does feel like Finn is a very underrated character. I have heard so many people say "Finn should have died because that's where his character arc was headed" infuriates me, as if a groundbreaking character like Finn is completely expendable. I don't completely blame Rian Johnson for that (though I get why people would) but I really hate the amount of hate that Finn and JB receive.

 

Was it Rian's decision to have Rey and Finn separate at the end of TFA? Rey's "I will see you again, I believe that" to Finn seemed to be hinting at a much longer separation than a couple of days. In my opinion it looked like JJ was setting up a significant time jump along with the beginning of two different journeys for the characters. I wasn't expecting Rey and Finn to be reunited until the end of the movie, at the earliest.

 

Interviews with Kennedy on the weekend of Celebration 2017, saying she picked that particular teaser poster, out of a dozen potentials.

You can even find us talking about it in this very thread, if you go back to the dates of Celebration 2017.