ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

It’s dismissible because unlike menial labor, she is ill equipped and untrained for it. It’s literally dangerous for her to have that post by herself.

 

As someone who was a Navy mechanic on a ship, let me tell you: "NO SHE ISN'T" and "NO IT IS NOT!"

 

You can use all caps to condescend me as much as you want. You’re not using reason, you’re just lecturing, speaking at us. I don’t buy it. One small framed non-combatant with a taser? A couple of soldiers with ptsd could overtake her quite easily, and hurt her in the process.

 

I starting to think a lot of you guys' issues with Finn and Rose is because you're civilians who can't put their mindset with military personnel for purposes of the story.

This is not on you personally @AhsokaSolo
But I'm beginning to see a trend.

 

I think a lot of you guys that love the way Finn and Rose are portrayed aren’t capable of making their portrayal make sense with logic, so you talk about irrelevant personal stuff. This isn’t about you personally, except that I’m responding directly to you and what you said.

 

Sorry you feel that way. But a lot of the dismissal of the Poe/Holdo chain of command of information, Rose, and Finn military stuff, that you call out on, like Rose standing guard, is the most realistic stuff.

Yet you're very critical of it

 

Yet you still haven’t responded to the argument itself. You state that it’s wrong, but you don’t state why. Your navy service isn’t a substantive response. It’s just “it’s right because I say so.” Well I think for myself. To me, it makes the Resistance look incompetent.

Finn isn’t in the resistance, so every time you talk about military procedure as though he’s part of their army, which you routinely do, you instantly lose credibility with me.

 

NAh. It makes the Resistance a parallel for a real world military operation that uses all of their resources while on the move.(underway)

 

I have never read an account of the US military treating a military asset like an enlisted soldier. If that’s normal, I’ve never heard of it.

Beyond which, somehow I’ve managed to watch every other SW movie having not served in the military, and I’ve followed the military plots just fine, I’ve understood the logic and believed it. Being in the military, having military rules, doesn’t suddenly make a stupid decision a smart one. Putting Rose on guard dog duty in those circumstances seems very stupid to me, and you haven’t made a single substantive argument as to why it would be a smart decision.

 

And I'm still trying to see your argument that Rose is incapable of that duty.

Especially when she stopped Finn and noted that she stopped two other personel that say.

Oh well. I guess my opinion of Rose is different than yours.

But I'll stop the conversation since this is the Finn thread.

 

I didn’t say she’s incapable. Strawmanning is not the same thing as responding to arguments with substance.

 

This isn't a secondary task like performing CQ duty peacetime. This is guarding (during a war) an escape hatch alone--with an electric stick. We aren't talking about a US Navy ship with an extremely low chance of being directly affected in combat. That said, perhaps some of those NCOs could benefit from a force protection class.

 

I'd hate to be that guy, but how much realism are we going to get in movies about space magic and destiny?

Personally, I know nothing regarding the logistics of certain military vocations, but I thought it was perfectly reasonable for Rose to be put in the position that she was in. The Resistance just lost an immeasurable amount of soldiers, their general is in a coma, and the Resistance is completely spread thin. It made perfect sense to me.

That being said, this is the Finn thread so I'm going to change the subject a bit. I mentioned this in a previous post, but I’ve noticed that while people always talk about the dynamic between Finn and Rose, they rarely talk about the dynamic between DJ and Finn. I find it interesting that Finn found a “reflection” of himself. It could have been done better, but I think DJ’s betrayal is what ultimately sets Finn over the edge.

 

That's really stupid logic on their part. Assign one TINY mechanic to stop combat veterans, some of whom are probably suffering from PTSD, or desperate in-general? And only give her a taser to use? Well that's a brilliant plan if they want her to die, but otherwise, not so much.

Also that explanation should have been IN THE MOVIE ITSELF!!

 

It wouldn't happen. This is Rian creating the conditions he needs to advance his plot pure and simple. I'd definitely counsel and retrain any NCO or officer who would do such a stupid thing.

 

Also as for the "real world military logic," well that's the problem, SW has never really operated on real world military logic. So both the Finn/Rose and Poe/Holdo stuff is a case of suddenly trying to apply a standard that's never been there before, to fit a square peg into a round hole all of a sudden. And it didn't work in either case imo.

 

Well again, the movie creates yet another inconsistency with that. It's not sure if we should care about consequences or not.

When Poe disobeys Leia, gets people killed and is demoted, we're supposed to be thinking about consequences. When he commits mutiny and is apprehended, we're supposed to think about consequences.
-But then two seconds later Leia is giving him a nice little sit-down, and then he's put in charge of leading yet another useless assault on the First Order.

When Finn is about to steal a pod and is tased, we're supposed to be thinking about consequences (which still feels so extremely petty). When the mission fails, DJ betrays them and the large number of the Resistance is killed because of them, we're thinking about consequences.
-But then two seconds later he says "Chrome dome" and he's giving everyone at the Resistance a rousing speech (and everyone listens to him).

When Rey secretly communicates with Ben/Kylo, and then has her falling out with Luke on behalf of him, we're thinking about consequences. When she's subdued by Snoke and put at Ben/Kylo's mercy, we're thinking about consequences. When it's revealed that Ben used her to take the throne for himself and calls her 'nothing,' we're thinking about consequences.
-But then two seconds later she's happy-joy in the Falcon and easily lifts a mountain, Luke's totally fine with her leading the next generation of Jedi (even though their last interaction was her angrily standing over him because he slipped on a wet rock), the end.

The movie's not sure just how much actions even matter in the film. And honestly this whole thing probably belonged in the criticism thread, sorry.

 

Also Leia essentially defers to Poe's leadership at the end overall. And Finn and Rose can just steal a shuttle (again them being able to just fly away undercuts the whole chase plot anyway, but I digress) and suffer no consequences for it either.

The movie cannot make up it's mind about much of anything.

 

Yeah DJ is basically a glorified plot-device, nothing more. He's Lando from ESB without the effort put in, or interesting character bits, or confliction about what he's doing. And his "parallels" towards Finn feel really forced, and don't amount to much of anything in the end.

And yeah by the time that DJ appears, Finn's so-called "flaw" isn't even really a thing anymore. Because, much like Kylo getting over his Vader obsession, Rian rushes past those things so ridiculously fast in the narrative that they end up mattering little in the end.

 

On top of that Finn, was never depicted as greedy or out for himself. I can't imagine DJ going back for Poe after crash landing, or ditching the ride to the outer rim, once the FO destroys the Hosinan system. If his intention was to provide Finn a moral fork in the road that was a wasted effort. I think that would have been better served developing his relationship with Poe, and having him grow as a leader.

 

I feel like the creative forces behind TFA and TLJ just don't have a clear idea "who Finn is".

Is he a tough, well trained stormtrooper, a veteran of combat action, who at some point, for some reason, just thought "enough, I am fighting for an evil cause"?
Is he a rookie, who in his first real taste of FO brutality was sickened and decided to bail?
Is he a FO "grunt" who spent a lot of time mopping floors, doing drudge work, who suddenly got co-opted into a combat role?
Is he sick of causes and war and "believers", but with a "heart of gold" at the core?

It feels to me like the movies can't quite make up their minds, that Finn "drifts" some from scene to scene, situation to situation.

 

That seems about right.