Comics Join Me In Rereading: Knights of the Old Republic

I know that's what's JJM has always claimed. But I've also suspected - and I mean this in a positive way - that he... shall we say, perhaps may have been such a team player that he was willing to portray things in a way that shone the best possible light on the choices taken by TPTB, while minimizing any other plans he had that fell by the wayside.

Again, in the best possible light, we know the Legacy team was completely blindsided by their own ending at 50, to the degree that when KOTOR's ending at 50 was announced (with Legacy's to come in a few months), even then Ostrander was on here promising the same would not happen with Legacy.

 

Been playing the game again recently (5 bucks on Android!) so definitely interested in how this would crossover with it. I will admit, the tonal and stylistic shift from Tales of the Jedi to Knights of the Old Republic is a wee bit jarring, it makes it seem like Tales is set 100s of years before but the game establishes it's only 70, I think. Maybe the Mandelorian Wars caused the Republic and Jedi to kick their technological advancements up a notch?

 

I think I heard that originally there were plans to have Vima Sunrider as a main character but changed it to Bastilla, hence why Bastilla has the Battle Meditation power.

The excellent KotOR Campaign Guide touched on that change too. The KotOR game probably just wanted to match up with the prequels and the OT, but later sources add that the Republic and the Navy did rebuild and reorganize a lot during that time period.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Restoration_Period

I'm sure KotOR could have gone on past #50, there's a big galaxy but Zayne, Jarael, Rohlan and Camper's main plotlines had all concluded by then. And it didn't feel too rushed (things were possibly slowing down a bit around the 40s). Who knows what Dark Horse was thinking (or not) when both series ended at #50, but KotOR had a pretty good end. Even better that they brought back the original artist for the final arc too.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sunrider_naming_controversy

 

I remember way, way back (2001/02) reading some early reporting on the game, and I distinctly remember one story (it must have been 2002, because it speculated that Manaan was actually Kamino) saying that the game was going to take place over a century after TOTJ. Maybe that was just the reporter speculating given the early idea of using Vima in the game, but that was at least something circulating back then.

One other thing that I very distinctly remember from around the time the game came out: someone at BioWare explicitly stating that the Dantooine Jedi Temple was not supposed to be the same Jedi center that Vodo ran in TOTJ. I wish I could find that now but that article is probably old enough to drive now.

 

I rather wish I could create a bot or something to like every post in this thread - I'm reading too many things right now to really take the time for this but I want to express my regard for KOTOR all the same.

 

Zayne is what the Jedi should be like imo.

 

Either Zayne is what a Jedi should be like and most, if not all, Jedi don't meet the requirements, or Zayne is better than a Jedi.

 

I really love the notes and wish we saw that kind of detail and planning more often. The thought JJM puts into the littlest things is amazing and it really shows up in the story.


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Knights of the Old Republic 3: Commencement, Part 3

(One of the best covers)

Notes: http://www.farawaypress.com/comics/swknights/swkotor03.html

Starting with a flashback to the final test of the Taris Padawans, and our first look a the ever important Red Spacesuits. Gotta say, it's a small thing but I have always appreciated how both the Kotor games and comic make space suits actually look like bulky space suits. It's one of the few things that helps make the era feel older then the "Modern" prequel/OT era.

As per JJM's notes issues 2-6 are Zayne going threw the Five Stages of grief and this issue is anger. And as such, nut surprisingly its the issue of Commencement where Zayne is at his most ineffective, He's angry, sullen and snappish, all with good reason, but it requires Gryph to take the reins and pull them both towards any type of solution. And he of course accounts for himself quite well.

The page cut between Gryph not really thinking the Masters would fall for his bluff vs them doing exactly that really illustrates something about about the entire Covenant. Perhaps ironically despite being made up mostly of seers and scholars, there fanaticism leads to incredible bullheadedness. They don't adapt well to anything that goes either against or towards there visions. It's like being able to see the future locks them in a path and any deviancy from that path can't be comprehended, ala Spice from Dune.

And once Gryph's mind gets them as far as it can go we our introduced to one of the best female characters Star Wars has ever had, (particularity as far as the comics are concerned*), Jarael who makes her entrance to the series beating the **** outta Zayne and throwing verbal barbs at him and Gryph both. As again Zayne is pretty locked in on the anger train at the moment he throws some words back. We also meet Camper who at the time comes off like he is in some stage of dementia.

Needless to say, a very unhappy group snapping at each other, and they bolt for space as the Masters finally show up, only for the power to go out because Zayne's relationship with the force is is closer to an abusive relationship then anything else at this point.

-Fun fact, Zayne calling Jarael Darth Sunshine is technically the earliest anyone on the Jedi/Republic side of the galaxy ever refers to the Darth title timeline wise.

-I eventually plan to make a long post eventually about what makes Jarael as a character and her relationship with Zayne so great, especially in comparison to there peers in Legacy/Dawn/Republic

 

Not only that, but in general they have a hard time understanding the motivations of Gryph and especially Zayne. It's "Evil Cannot Comprehend Good" stuff.

 

Yeah, I love that cut- "they're probably not stupid enough to go into rakghoul territory". Then we find out oh yes they are. Its another sign of how inept the Covenant are, but that's the problem with fanatics (and boy are they fanatical). Zayne is pretty sheltered too, but he's starting to pick things up from Gryph, who is street smart and clever.

And its not until later that we find out all those calls from Coruscant are hinting at something bigger rather than just an angry Jedi Council.

Jarael is a great character. In a galaxy full of blasters and lightsabers, its nice to see a staff fighter actually.

 

Knights of the Old Republic 4: Commencement, Part 4

Notes: http://www.farawaypress.com/comics/swknights/swkotor04.html

So we immediately pick up with the Last Resorts power still out and everybody still snapping at each other because hey, this situation is really realllllly stressful. Camper shows his first concentrated flash of raw intelligence and re powers the ship just in time for them to fly into the asteroid field.

JJM's notes for the issue point out that alot of the interactions right now are starting up the various dynamics of the Last Resort crew and it shows. Jarael is still throwing barbs at Zayne who does the logical thing at this point and just screams. Gryph sorta defends Zayne's innocence while being overjoyed at his criminal rep boost and continues to annoy the **** outta Jarael, but also convince her not to throw either of them out the airlock. And Camper finally mentions the company and starts to have an episode, which cools things off and everyone spreads out, giving Zayne, who finally starts to move past impotent anger to move the ship and make a call.

And the call is great, I really enjoy Vandar's characterization in the comic, his relationship with Zayne is a neat one and the fact that he doesn't believe Zayne but still wants to somehow help him is a nice middle ground between "Perfect Jedi Yoda copy" and the obviously incredibly flawed Covenant. The notes call there convo the heart of the issue and it really is. Zayne's logic that he could never have killed the others because they were all so much better then him regardless of anything else is a really sad but totally accurate read on things. And it also goes back to how little respect Zayne has for himself.

But lack of self respect doesn't mean a lack of intelligence, and he once again starts to quickly put things together about his Masters, and decides the last place they were together might have some answers, the Rogue Moon.

The Rogue Moon is also a really rad design, and that another thing we will see in the series, lots of neat space designs for stations, moons, ships etc.

Also this is the first time we get to see Zayne and Jarael interact without yelling at each other (MY S HIPPPP).......ahem, anyway they track down Elbee, who in light of how the old Eu treated Droids, and how the NEU does, feels really ahead of his time unintentionally. But we will get into that next time, as Lucien hasn't traumatized and tried to kill a scared teenager in 1 whole issue, so he shows up to correct that.

 

This is probably the first issue where there's a glimmer of hope for Zayne. Its kind of a punch to the gut when even Vandar asks "How could you?" but Zayne protests it wasn't him and points out all the holes in the Covenant's cover story. Including that Zayne is supposedly too pathetic to actually be able to kill anyone, much less four stronger Padawans before the Masters could intervene, even with a theoretical darkside power boost. Talk about a sad upbringing. At the time I read this issue I had no idea what a Jedi Consular was (not having played KotOR yet), so I didn't have a good first impression of that class based on the Covenant's seers. And a brief mention that Zhar might be the least worst of the five (not that that helps much).

Still, even though his chat with Vandar was cut short, at least he heard Zayne's side of the story and is a lot more wary after that. And of course there's that red spacesuit in the background.

 

Knights of the Old Republic 5: Commencement, Part 5

(Another Great one, Commencement is honestly 6/6 for awesome covers)
Notes: http://www.farawaypress.com/comics/swknights/swkotor05.html

So this issue has a fill in artist, and the thread for it from back in the day is quite critical of it. So I'll just say this, when it comes to Zayne/Jarael/Gryph I agree, they all look off, especially Gryph. However, the Vision sequence is superbly drawn, especially the way he rendered Q'Anilla's blindness in her part specifically, and the Red Space suit throughout.

Now Zayne's "disability" come into play again as his master being able to track him down is undone by Gryph getting the Last Resort's canon working, and under threat of big gun death get Zayne/Jarael and Elbee back onto the ship. And from this we get Zayne icing the idea of just offing Lucien with the canon, which really does say alot about him. He wasn't a murderer before, they can't make him become one now, even in self defense. Really a quite satisfying moral contrast to his Masters, who as we see in the vision, literally jump to murder as there first solution.

But now we get to Elbee, and how for star wars morality regarding droids, is literally a decade ahead of his time. Old EU SW, treatment of droids was straight up destopic, and Elbee is really the only example from it we have besides some of the NJO that really explores that. Camper fixing up Elbee doesn't really fix him, his increased intelligence gives him the ability to comprehend he was callously mutilated and almost shutdown by his master, somebody he was programmed to trust. He straight up has PTSD, and that doesn't go away ever. Its fascinating and tragic.

Next the vision, which as I said before is super well done art wise, and with the vision are first look at the characterization of the other four masters, as up till know its mostly been Lucien's show. Ranna Tey and Feln immediately and aggressively jump straight to "We need to murder the children" which Lucien also immediately agrees that's a swell idea. Q'anilla is less aggressive,, meek even(as will always be the case with her) but equally on board. Xamar is the only one who shows and hesitancy and is firm that he wont do anything until they confirm with Coruscant that it really is there only option. Feln also shows a fear of death that will crop up again and again with him.

But Zayne's life isn't fair, so learning all this comes with the price of there ship getting caught by Pirates, and gryph pulls a nice deal fro himself and the others while leaving Zayne out to dry by "cutting him loose", a reminder that as lovable as he is, the man is still a criminal who can't take a losing hand, for now of course. Desperate and depressed, Zayne almost sneaks off with there ship. Only to get caught by Jarael, who gives him the reaming of a life time, which also hints at both her and Camper's backstories, as well her thoughts on what it means to run and when and when not its okay. Which isn't going tb be totally relevant for like 37 more issues, but setting it up now just shows how far ahead JJM, was planning and how well plotted the comic was. And her reaming breaks Zayne of his self pity for good, he agrees to face his fate, and were off to Commencement's conclusion.

Going to note, the lack of response posts to this thread, but large amount of likes. I of course will interpret this as me being such a good summraizer and discusser that everyone is so in aww of my prowess they are afraid to post there own thoughts,

 

I'll admit, issue 0 didn't grab me when I first read it, I even failed to notice Revan and Malak were in it.

Issue 1 felt like more of the same, until that ending that completely floored me, that was the point where I was hooked into it and from there Commencement continued to build and establish this epic series beautifully. The first time I was reading the following issues I started to doubt myself in thinking if what I saw at the end of issue 1 really happened, mainly due to the manipulative words of the scumbag council of five. It was the first time I had genuine hate towards a group of Jedi.

Issue 5, well yeah that art, the only thing that bothered me about it was Jarael making funny faces in the last few pages. The vision scene was terrific though.

 

This issue, with the Force vision, was I think the first big "whoa!" moment of the series, aside from the opening massacre I suppose. I remember a lot of fun trying to figure out if it was depicting the events of Revan's coup prior to the KOTOR game.

Was this the first time a Force vision has ever been visually depicted?

 

Knights of the Old Republic 6: Commencement, Part 6

Notes: http://www.farawaypress.com/comics/swknights/swkotor06.html

3 snapshots of various characters who will become vitally important in the future, before getting straight into the nitty gritty, a nearly rioting crowd that wants Zayne's blood and more importantly the girl he likes, staring at him with dead eyes thinking he murdered here brother. Forget being marched to his execution, Zayne just lost his chance at a girlfriend...well, for now at least.

First thing with the Masters to notice is just how cold they are, sure they think they are about to prevent the return of the Sith for sure, but regardless they don't even really act like murdering this poor kid is tragedy, just something they are justified in doing because the Sith are evil. Really goes back to what Zayne said about them hating the Sith and how un Jedi like it makes them.

That said Lucien, does decide to explain why, maybe on some level to help justify it to themselves a bit more, and the flashback reveals alot. The other padawans besides Shad get to have some lines, we see how Shad was clearly the best of them, able to put things together oh most as fast as Zayne does, while the Masters fail to cover that something is off. And the padawans manage to pull about the lie with the same logic Zayne used with Vandar, he wasn't as good as them, and even his friends who do genuinely like him don't think he deserves to become a Knight on there coattails. But Shad's right, for all they didn't believe in him they did want him to work it out and find success, while the Masters actively ignored, mocked, and treated him like a joke unworthy of any help. It's super on point, and neglectfulness on the scale is honestly easily some form of emotional abuse. Which is why I said in 2 that Zayne having good friends and a loving family is so critical to him turning into a good person, because it sure as hell wasn't cultivated by these ****s.

Of course insisting on telling Zayne this in the presence of Valius means they have to kill him as well, which Lucien does with no care at all. Then when Zayne takes what he thinks will be his last seconds alive to just ask for Lucien to support Shad's family, he just says he will consider it. Which given what we find out about what the Draay's pack money wise, and how unashamedly they use it is really just an incredibly mean an unneeded answer when he could do it so easily.

Luckily, Jarael shows why she is the best of the best and swoops in to save him while the red spacesuit (J disguise count, 1) she is wearing momentarily gives the Masters yipps, and once they get outta there we also find out she reminded Gryph why he never looked at his cards. Because as I said, she is the best. And as Lucien finally starts to take Zayne a little more seriously, we see a more confident person clap back against the Masters fear. And a week later Taris is in flames and Zayne sends the Masters his message and "Vision", decked out in the outfit he will be using for most of the events up to Vindication.

-People in the issue thread had alot of different theories on what Zayne's vision deal was, some people actually guess correctly right away.

- In a testament to how effective his characterization is, almost no posters wanted Zayne to ever take a stroll anywhere near the dark, he was at the time and remains a breath of fresh air and people adored him for it

So thats Commencement, and as far as SW comics opening arcs I think its the best. Republic didnt become Republic till the Clone Wars, I dont remember super strong praise for DT or Rebellion, Dawn was awful from start to end, and while people really liked Legacy, lots also had problems with Cade. What about you all, how do you think Kotor's opening arc compares to the other DH SW's titles of that whole era?

 

I actually remember Dark Times getting a lot of praise here when it began, and throughout it run - though honestly, I feel like Dark Times had an excellent opening arc but then was never able to get that level back, and completely jumped the shark in the storyline where Jennir falls in love with the woman who a few issues before was basically running a child slave ring.

I feel like this opening arc of KOTOR was very strong (as most of the series was) and does a great job setting up the entire series. That being said, I remember my excitement for the following Mandalorian War arc to be even higher. I do feel like those two opening arcs were higher than some of the following storylines, which again isn't to say those were bad, but not on the level of the first ten issues.

 

Gahhh, such a great thread. Thank you. I'll be sure to read along with you all, I'm catching up this second

 

This thread shows how fondly the EU saga lines are remembered by readers of that era.

 

Yeah, Commencement remains one of my favorite arcs ever. As an introduction to Zayne, Jarael, Gryph and everyone else, with the shocking twists and excellent use of the era. I remember Legacy's opening arc fondly too, but that was partially due to the exciting new era and that was before Cade's "I'm not a Jedi" line got too tiresome. I actually remember Legacy's #0 was on sale for 25 cents (I think?) and I started picking up Legacy month then branched out into KotOR somewhere around issue 12 (after I read through the first TPB and good hooked). Dark Times had the excellent art and relatively new time period (beginning of the Dark Times era post-prequels) but the series waned after that (well, except maybe for Blue Harvest).

Zayne is practically a saint. Even in his circumstances he's still trying to look after Shad's family, even though they think he killed Shad and most likely will never find out the truth. This is when Zayne really takes off, in terms of competence- he's tired of being put down by everyone, including himself, and as Gryph said they'll own the galaxy or wreck it and sell it for salvage. It'll take more than a Mandalorian horde (and the later Sith) to kill Zayne.

The Covenant are so genre-blind, they're basically spouting villain lines but then most of them have gone off the deep end already. Not to mention being easily driven to panic, so much so Zayne tosses their lightsabers away first (but then Zayne's a lot more competent than anyone noticed). Ironically Lucien does respect Zayne by the end, when that respect means nothing to Zayne anymore. I remember the theories about Zayne's "vision". I always thought of it as a taunt rather than literal, but wookieepedia took it literally. I think. I'm honestly not sure, my memories of my own theories might be off too, though.

 

I have to say when I first read issue 6 I wanted to give it a standing ovation, that speech at the end was unbelievably tight and powerful. Here I was expecting some tie in to the game but what I got was something completely original to Star Wars I had never seen before. I was just ready to keep reading the rest of the series. : D

 

I liked Dark Times and still do, but I think one of the problems is that after Jennir and the crew of the Uhumele separated, it kind of lost focus and the plot sort of wandered.

Anyways, back to KOTOR. I always thought it was strange that both Vandar AND Zayne himself bought into that "dark side induced false memory" excuse. But at the very least Vandar does get a bit suspicious of the Covenant.

Zayne's insistence on not killing, and the Covenant using murder as their solution to every problem, is a great contrast. I cannot state enough what great villains the Covenant are. They're not motivated by selfishness like the Sith, they're not really drawing on the dark side of the Force (at least not yet) or having temptation to use it like Anakin, Voss, or Cade. But still they are filled with fear about their vision, and have hatred for the Sith. And though Jedi are supposed to protect life and only defend, never attack, the Covenant kills without a thought and leaves Taris in flames with no remorse.

Up next: Mandalorians!

 

Knights of the Old Republic 7: Flashpoint, Part 1

Notes: http://www.farawaypress.com/comics/swknights/swkotor07.html

So here we are at the second story arc, and the first to take a deeper look at proxy war going hot. But first, we see Zayne's first preplanned plan succeed by tricking the miners outta there outpost with some clever conning and Jarel dressed up as a Jedi, again. Thus beginning another glorious Kotor tradition of finding reasons to dress her up in cool or cute outfits at every opportunity, I of course approve.

But Zayne's scheme being successful highlights something, Flashpoint starts with a very different tone then Commencement, on purpose as the Notes show. And even though the frontier is dangerous, being out from under the Covenants thumb lets all the crew sans Elbee to be more relaxed, and its reflected in the dialogue. The banter is much more relaxed between the group, and as again the notes highlight, Jarael especially is much more chill the farther from Taris and more time she spends with Zayne passes. I adore there banter over his lightsaber. Elbee meanwhile shows again how badly damaged he is by being able to understand that his master hurt him. And Zayne is acting with much more steady confidence then the on the run primal fear that fueled him during the first arc.

But then we get the other side of Zayne's coin, so of course the Mando's attack for real, and we finally meet Rohlan who immediately makes the impression of somebody who knows his **** and is surrounded by youngins that don't. Jarael gets mistaken for a jedi for rather obvious reasons and gets captured, with Camper almost going mad trying to dive in to save her, with another mention of there promise. Only for Top Boy Zayne to stop him and promise to help save her the way she did him, daawwwww. But before much can be done there, Rholan punks them, and ends the issue stealing the Last Resort.

-This is Dustin Weavers first arc, and he and Brian make a great tag team, diffiretn styles, but they both work great.