A/V Just Announced 4 Years Ago: Andor!! It's happening now!!!

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Sometimes I wonder the same thing, but I suppose secrecy is the main concern - building the DS 1 openly might have scared the senate out of complacency and made them more of a thorn in his side, and for the DS 2...well, if it was in a more well defended location, it might not have worked as a trap for the rebel fleet. Plus, even the core and deep core were not completely free of rebel activity.

Course, it is interesting to note that in an older version of the script, the death star 2 was being built at the imperial capital - Endor was the "sanctuary moon" because it was a nature preserve for the city planet below it, and I find myself wondering what star wars would be like if we had gotten that version of the story.

Good point - I also get the feeling that the tie defender project was a smokescreen in a way, explaining the intense imperial interest in a seeming backwater without hinting at the Emperor's actual interest in the world; namely kyber crystals for the death star and the gateway to the world between worlds. Finally, Thrawn might have been set up to fail, as his project is competing with the death star and Palpatine has invest way too much time and resources on that to seriously consider an alternative.

Huh, that is very cool. Makes me wonder what other kinds of interesting props we never got a clear look at.

 

I looked at it like the F-22 / F-35 programs. An advanced fighter project that was not really top secret...but there were some classified aspects in regards to the new technology being used.

 

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It is an odd decision to me regardless of when it was established. It would be like locating a top secret military base out behind the hall of records.

 

Totally agree..

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as I said above...too much coming and going as Scarif for such a classified project

 

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Is it? Seems to me the only ones to know is the ISB. Besides, this is 5 BBY. The Death Star likely got moved to the edge of the system by 0 BBY. Traffic to Scarif might have been extremely limited until then.

 

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How many people are stationed there? 2 ISDs, the shield gate, the garrison, and everyone coming and going. Scarif is a data repository...I am not saying there are people coming and going like an airport...but if just one person seas something that unnerves them about a 'secret project'? People talk. That's why in WW2 there were the poster with 'loose lips sink ships' among the others that were about being careful talking about what you know or what you heard from loved ones overseas.

 

Coming in late for Andor finale comments. Obviously it was very good--and that's nice to be able to say about a Star Wars product again! An excellent season overall, and I'm glad to see it's been getting a lot of critical and fandom acclaim so far. Some random comments on content, though:

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Can I say how much I weirdly loved the Deedra/Syril stuff? Like, I am about the farthest kind of person from a shipper (I have always found that subfandom offputting to the extreme) and Deedra/Syril was not something I was expecting or asking for at all, but what a bizarrely perfect culmination for that relationship. Like, I would not want to hang out with these people, but you know, lots of weird and terrible people have successful relationships, and these two crazy kids are clearly perfect for each other. And they end up having, as we used to say, a much better love story than Twilight.

It's hard to put my finger on what I like about this other than that, yeah, I dunno, it makes sense. Like we get to know them both as independent, totally unrelated characters who happen to be very similar in uh, various and concerning ways, and then we see the universe bring them together. It's true to life in a way.

On a mostly unrelated note, I was intrigued but slightly nonplussed by how negative the season left me feeling about Mon Mothma. Like yes, there's the "danger" and "gilded cage" aspects to her arc, but in the finale we watch her basically torpedo all the relationships in her life to save her own skin, in rapid succession lying to and picking a fake fight with her husband in front of an ISB informant for the sake of cover and then selling her daughter to marriage at 14 For the Cause.

It's a striking approach given how much she's always been portrayed in SW as a figure of idealism. In a way, we ultimately see her do far worse things than we see Luthen do, who for all his bluster about amoralism and big-picture accelerationism seems to treat the people around him decently well--sacrificing Kreeger is just basic tactics and not super immoral, the worst thing he does is decide to kill Cassian, and we see him being moved by Marva's speech along with everyone else. It's not exactly the contrast I was expecting between Luthen's cynicism and Mon Mothma's idealism: in the end, it's more the contrast between Luthen being a figure of the shadows and Mothma being a figure of the limelight, or Luthen being at the end of a long arc of sacrifice and struggle and Mothma being at the beginning of her arc, or Luthen being worn down and Mothma being naive.

At least we get Marva as a figure of idealistic rebellion, though. And it's great that with Ferrix the eventual narrative really is one of a whole community pulling together to oppose evil, and not just the old Heroic Idealistic Individuals or Heroic Nietzchean Individuals. That's overall the best thing about the series and the season.

 

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I don't disagree with your overall point; this is kind of like learning the "real history" with all the uncomfortable bits after having been taught the propaganda. That said, though, I think there is more to it than just "saving her own skin".

First obviously there's more than just her own skin at stake. She is a contributor to the nascent rebellion so her loss would be a big blow. She's also not completely betraying her family. Her daughter is into the whole ancient customs and traditional marriage thing so that definitely played a part in Mon going along with the betrothal. Her daughter sees that as a win. And her husband is a little more underhanded, but he's pretty clearly part of the "Enemy" at least culturally even if he's not, like, a stormtrooper himself.

 

This might be a really controversial thing to say, but regarding Leida, did Mon actually do anything wrong?

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Clearly, Leida enjoys the Chandrilan traditions and lives in an era where she has the freedom to choose whether she wants to adhere to those traditions or not, unlike the era her mother grew up in. Vel isn't married and Perrin implies that's because of her own decisions, although it is also implied that she's in the closet so Chandrila isn't quite as progressive as it could be. If it were compulsory, then Mon dooming Leida to an arranged marriage is clearly immoral. Using her daughter as a political bargaining chip is the part that comes off as immoral to me, although personally I find it easily forgivable.

I mean, hopefully Davo Sculdun's son is a good kid and treats Leida well, right?

 

Today's episode of Andor was great... I was a bit surprised that Warwick got such a big role in it and they had no space scenes, but it will all connect in the end I bet.

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Andor Blues...

I watch other shows and pretend it is Andor, just because I need more Andor and I need it now!

But honestly, I loved Willow... we need to discuss it, too. April Fools is canon to me!

 

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While I don't entirely condone want Mothma did here, this is a valid point. This is one of the few times she acquiesced to what both her daughter and husband wanted, while scoring one for the proto-Rebellion's "greater good". The person Mothma's most betraying is her own self and her desire for her daughter to be able to have the choice she didn't of who to marry.

This is a very realistic family dilemma. The daughter's doing something brash, but she thinks it's the right thing because the parent she gets along with more advocates it. The parent she's come to despise, who she thinks is pushy and stuffy and snobbish, has her best interests at heart. But Mothma isn't good at expressing what she really thinks in words. So Leida makes the obvious choice. One can't blame her, or really anyone else here.

 

Mothma actually mentions to Vel that Perrin is far more open minded/liberal on marriage then you would expect. Not sure he wants it, he doesn't exactly look happy in the final shot

 

I’m glad they mentioned that, it makes Perrin an actual nuanced character rather than just every bad husband trope rolled into one figure.

 

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The thing I got about Perrin was that he seems to want his daughter to be happy no matter what. He didn't like his own marriage, but he wasn't as obvious about it as Mon. He makes an effort to follow the Chandilan customs a lot more than Mothma does, and he's clearly the one that pushed Leida into opening the door to an early marriage. My take was he was willing to see where this went, not that he was strongly opposed.

 

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Sure, I mean, I think it is important that while, yes, Lieda is currently in the grip of Internet-Tradism and would be willing to tradwife the first 14-year-old boy her parents push into her path, and while, yes, Perrin is not the kind of person to actively prevent this (though idk, he also seems laid back enough that he wouldn't actively instigate it and down enough on his marriage to Mon Mothma that he might even not be happy with it), nonetheless, it is Mothma herself who instigates the child marriage by actually making the formal-marriage-introduction thing between her trad kid and the Banker guy child happen.

The fact that Lieda is inclined to participate in the tradition does make it less wholly reprehensible, but it doesn't really change the basic power dynamic of her being 13 years old and 13 year olds often getting into some stupid stuff and the parent having the responsibility to not let their child ruin their lives at that young age and also the parent apparently having the actual power to arrange or at least permit the marriage itself.

Of course, as people have said, Mon Mothma doesn't do this for selfish reasons, exactly, she does it "for the cause," to keep the Rebellion going, which as I've said, makes her much more like Luthen, or really more extreme in some ways than Luthen, who has apparently sacrificed the possibility of a normal life and close relationships but hasn't actively screwed them over for the Rebellion (that we've seen). Still, it's a pretty ugly thing--and it's absolutely her responsibility, and not Lieda's, and not Perrin's.

 

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You never know. Perhaps Davo is like Mon. Putting on a facade while keeping their true face hidden. Maybe Davo Sculdin is one of the allies she least expects. We'll know more in S2.

 

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I could see him being open to a post empire galaxy, they do make life harder for him. Criminals often work with rebels.

 

I actually thought it may have been Despayre.

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Davo is sure interesting and the way Andor subverts expectations he can become anything. Will he become a Rebel or sell out Mon to authorities? The way his attitude is, his criminal side clearly is anti-Empire, but more on the profiteur edge rather than political idealist. Yet he is into chandrilan customs or pretends to be for some reason. He does not strike me as a true believer, merely using them for favors and connections as an opportunist. But, would he be ruthless enough to use his own son like a game board piece to advance his favor collecting and connections? Or does he secretly care about his son, maybe even know he had a crush on Lieda and masks his true motives behind his business smugness?

In a way Davo to me screams "Mafia" and if so, he is a special type of criminal. While rooted in official business, shady stuff on the side like money laundering, the family has a high value to him and all he does is through or with family. So one has to become family to become a part of his deals like Mon will be via that marriage tradeoff. And we all know Mafia can be your best friend and protector or worst enemy... lets see how it gets down.

I like how they contrasted the mention of Canto Bight and its warprofiteering snob elite we saw in TLJ to the Coruscant elite with ideals and politics still on mind aside profit. They used the sneer at Canto Bight derrogatively, so maybe Davo is better than that. Maybe he isn't. We could end up with a Gotham scenario of important families running politics behind the scenes by who they are related to and own via money and favors. Very Imperial Senate-ish.

 

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My impression was that Sculdun was aiming a for a Mack the Knife-type "marrying into legitimacy," but I can't remember if that was stated or just implied.

 

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Well, it's very heavily implied by the whole sequence ending with the proposal where he starts out talking about how lavish the Senatorial palace is and how he only visited it once as a young man and thought he would be there a lot more often but was prevented by his "business." And then makes his request not just for an introduction, but for an introduction where he's invited back to there specifically.

Dude definitely wants the prestige of Mon Mothma's position and family ties, much more than he wants money, as he says. It's the classic "nouveau rich envy the old aristocracy and want to be accepted by them" and/or just "rich people have money but are desperate for fame, respect, prestige, political position, etc, etc" dynamic.

 

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This reflects discussions I've seen on the internetz about the show, which compared to TLJ have been really chill. Thing is, Bro#2 above has actually watched the entire show. There are some folks who enacted a form of rage-quitting partway through because they said it was "awful". This is definitely one of those shows where you need to watch more than half the season to get a sense of what it's like. I thought the first two episodes were disjointed and a weird mix of boring Andor family scenes and bumbling cops, but that changed drastically after the third episode.

 

While I did love the show...I would say a little more action would have been nice. For example the Empire catching the courier being shown...not just hearing about it after the fact.

 

For me, I did think it "doesn't feel enough like Star Wars". But then I also find myself thinking, "if I were reading this in the form of a novel, I probably wouldn't have a problem with it".

 

More than any other Star Wars media I really got the impression from Andor that the galaxy and the human civilizations in it are old, really, really old. Old enough to scatter through out the galaxy, settle down on separate worlds, many to forget about or not care about space faring technology, and develop their own language before these separate human cultures and planets happen to rediscover one another.