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PT Just rewatched the prequels over the last few days ...

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by TheCowboyBuilder, Feb 5, 2020.

  1. TheCowboyBuilder

    TheCowboyBuilder Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    I have watched the prequels over the past few nights, and I have to say I don't get the hate for them, apart from some dodgy dialog and acting (and of course JJ Binks) they are great films - particulary Ep III.
    One thing about watching them, it made me feel a bit more peeved about Ep IX and bringing back Palpatine - haven't they essentially crapped all over the prophecy ?
    What I loved about the first time I saw III was the sense of all wrapping it up and tying it together, Obi Wan is screaming "You were supposed to destroy the sith not join him" ... and all along you realise thats exactly what happens in VI - well not anymore.

    So , it's a real shame it took that direction, Snoke should have been the main villain for the whole sequel trilogy.
     
  2. BoromirsFan

    BoromirsFan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2010
    I just view the Disney stuff separately, the six films are a complete story. The prequels are a fun and thought provoking extension of the original trilogy and make the overall story much more poignant when you finish return of the Jedi.
     
  3. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    Just making sequels at all to finish out a nine part saga became problematic once Lucas finished episode three. He'd yanked most of the material intended for 7-9 into ROTJ, and tied it up very thoroughly, then offered only the subtlest back door in episode 3. But I will offer this. Bringing the Force into balance doesn't need to be the end of the story. The balance must be maintained, and unfortunately (if we want to give the sequels credit) the Sith did indeed have a back door to re-tip it again, so that they threatened to re-emerge. The sequels tell the story of how the Jedi just barely squeaked through this bottleneck of Force users that happened after the balance returned. My feeling is that fans can keep a six movie head canon and I may end up there myself, but it's worth reflecting on the ways in which to appreciate the attempt at finishing this nine part opera cycle.

    My fantasy for the sequels would be for them to integrate more effectively with the previous installments. The did what they could by resuscitating Sidious, and it felt to me like they couldn't have done better at that point. I mean why would the good guys be worse off thirty years after they blew up the second death star and killed the Emperor? This approach they took at least offered some justification for that state of affairs, much better than Rey random and Snoke random, randomly creating conflict again. Because you know, the fight is eternal, because financial opportunities continue that way.
     
  4. MissAlyssa

    MissAlyssa Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2020
    I notice that a lot of people online add caveats before praising the prequels. I want to say that I enjoy them period! No movie is perfect, but we usually don't have to include a list of negatives before saying we enjoy them.

    I agree that the inclusion of Palpatine contradicts what episodes 1-6 set up. If I think too much about it, it's like attaching a bad epilogue to book that already has a great ending. But, I honestly have decided to look at those movies as, kind of, an alternate reality to preserve my peace of mind. They are their own separate thing. Their story doesn't even connect the to the prequels or include prequel characters. The Skywalker story ended with Luke redeeming Anakin, Anakin fulfilling his destiny and becoming a hero who restored balance to the force.

    I do wonder what George Luca's trilogy would've looked like. I know it was about two Skywalker siblings and explained more about how the force works. It wasn't really trying to add anything to the prophecy, but bring in a new generation and new concepts.
     
  5. Starwarsisover

    Starwarsisover Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Long live the prequels they are as important as the originals to me and were so worth telling as episodes.

    Lots to like and love about them.
     
  6. Rogue Knight

    Rogue Knight Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2020
    I've seen this argument made again and again. I don't think bringing Palpatine back necessarily invalidates the prophecy. I'm going to repeat what I've posted in several other threads about this:

    In ROTJ Anakin brought balance to the force, which in turn paves to way for the events in the ST. During the PT-OT era, the force was out of balance due to the concentration of dark side force amassed by Palpatine. In other words, Palpatine's dark side energy created a black hole that threw the force out of balance. This clouded the PT era Jedi's judgement and ability to use the force to keep the dark side at bay and ultimately led to their downfall and the rise of the Empire.

    When Darth Vader turns back to the light side and "kills" Palpatine he destroys this dark side chasm and returns balance to the force. This ultimately allows "the force to awaken" leading to the rise of Rey and the awesome power clashes (balance) that we see between her and Kylo. Even though Palpatine returns in the ST (through unnatural dark side arts), the force is never again fully out of balance. He is never able to amass the power he had prior to Endor, and as such Rey his able to rapidly grow with the force and become a conduit by which all the Jedi can help destroy Palpatine once and for all.

    In actuality, I feel like TROS lends more credence to the PT. Firstly it adds an extra level of foreshadowing to Palpatine's opera scene with Anakin. Palpatine was truly obsessed with cheating death. His return in TROS closes this arc full circle. Secondly, the fact that Rey was able to be a conduit for a number of PT era Jedi to work through her to defeat Palpatine really does much to tie the 3 trilogies together.
     
  7. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    I have encountered "dodgy dialogue" in all Star Wars movies. Nor do I understand the hate for Jar Jar Binks.
     
  8. TheCowboyBuilder

    TheCowboyBuilder Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    ah now come on !!!
    The most annoying pointless character ever made, it wouldn't be so bad if he was funny, but he's not, and he adds nothing to the story.

    But just my opinion!
     
    Ackbar's Fishsticks likes this.
  9. BoromirsFan

    BoromirsFan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2010
    Jar Jar is the reason why Palpatine got his emergency powers....
     
  10. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    He is also the reason why Padme was also able to reach the Gungan sanctuary
     
  11. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    There's plenty of scenarios where Jar Jar drives the plot and isn't just one-note comic relief. Despite how much he was merchandised, he at least had substance in the film to back it up. While his arc is pretty much completed by the Phantom Menace, it's funny how his briefer appearance in Attack of the Clones has the most far-reaching implications.

    In general, prequel hate has been distilled down to tired talking points that have all but lost their meaning. Complaining about CGI, politics, acting/dialogue are the most of it. Liking a film is purely subjective, but somehow these films suddenly make people turn into film majors to validate their awful opinions.
     
  12. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    The prequel hate has faded alot. i see far more positivity and support towards the PT these days.

    I find it all fascinating to a point. how vile hatred could turn to support, even if it took years and possibly the ST to come out before people stepped back and thought... actually the PT were not that bad, id like to see more of that world.
     
  13. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    even with all the hate, things from the prequels worked their way into pop culture. i sense zero of that for the ST.
     
  14. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    It helps that so much of that generation is old enough to voice opinions about the PT. 10 years ago, the PT discourse was dominated by adults who grew up with the OT in the 80s and 90s, and that became the basis for why the PT seemed like open season for anyone who talks about film.

    However, kids who were born in the late 80s to the late 90s and experienced the PT as children have now dominated the discourse on the PT. You can make a good argument at this point that a clone trooper in a new SW project would generate more buzz than seeing a stormtrooper again.
     
  15. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I think the hate comes from the dodgy dialogue. Some people also hate it for its “over use of CGI” but I think that’s a smaller group then it used to be. The main problem I see still is the dialogue
     
  16. themoth

    themoth Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Have to agree.
     
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  17. Maythe14thBeWithYou

    Maythe14thBeWithYou Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2014
    I just watched ROTS in preparation for TCW S7 and really liked it, more than the first time. After TCW it flowed better and as a result I think that's why TCW is vital to Canon, esp. in its development of Padme.
     
  18. BoromirsFan

    BoromirsFan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2010
    the only amusing "pop culture" infiltration that I've seen is the Kylo Ren SNL shorts but that's mostly due to Adam Driver being funny.
     
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  19. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    The "too much CGI" must be somewhat generational too. Because a couple years ago I convinced a guy at my work who was 20 at the time to watch the SW films and afterwards I asked him what he thought. When I asked him thoughts on the differences between the two trilogies he said he didn't like the OT because it had too many puppets. I sure got a big chuckle out of that.

    And speaking of dodgy dialogue, a few years ago a friend of mine told me he asked his daughter who was in her mid-teens at the time if she liked SW [he was only referencing the OT] and she answered "Oh yeah, are those the movies with the bad dialogue?"

    So it's all relative, man. It's all relative.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  20. oierem

    oierem Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Yes!!!! Exactly! It's really annoying how people tend to be cautions when praising the prequels, as if it's some sort of crime to say you just like them.
     
  21. LukeSkywalker7

    LukeSkywalker7 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Ugh. This is exactly how I feel. I didn’t love the prequels but I think the storyline and motivations of the characters all make sense. I liked Revenge of the Sith and I think the Clone Wars cartoon helps build the Anakin/ Obi WN relationship we just didn’t get nearly enough on screen. But messing with the prophecy at all.. diminishing it in any way is just awful.
     
  22. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I may revisit them.
     
  23. rpeugh

    rpeugh Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2002
    One of the most astute points Rick Worley makes in his Star Wars youtube video opus is that a big part of people's problem with the prequels is they stubbornly view them as the second trilogy when they are supposed to view them as the first trilogy. Im amazed at the amount of people that seem to think watching the movies in chronological order is somehow sacrilege. And that got me thinking, you know, if I viewed TPM as the 4th movie and not the 1st, the first movie of a second trilogy and not the first movie of a saga, I might actually have some problems with it myself. I could actually see why one might think you could just omit TPM entirely. And I always found that idea so baffling and strange.
     
  24. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Agreed. People need to recognize: George Lucas is the one that introduced/initiated the idea of a sequel trilogy. He brought forth the idea way back in the early 80's. He also (after years of denying there was a Sequel Trilogy) dusted off this notion and initiated it just before selling everything to Disney. People can complain about post ROTJ ideas all they want, but the fact remains...a lot of the broad strokes were created and negated by Lucas himself. For better or worse.

    Many fans keep a 3 movie head cannon as they despise the prequels. I know fans that only like the OT and the Disney era films.

    Agree on this. The Emperor represents the ultimate evil. The kind of evil that is CONSTANTLY RETURNING in mythology, fantasy, and religion. It only makes sense that Palpatine would rise again (like Sauron, Voldemort, Satan) and be responsible for dividing and corrupting the lineage of Skywalker. My only wish is that this would have been the cliffhanger/tag at the end of TLJ.

    I am with you on this notion. The PT made Palpatine incredibly more important/vital to the saga than he was with just the OT. The event in TROS go a long way to acknowledging this characters power/impact/importance.

    The ST didn't get nearly the hate and backlash that the the PT did. Certainly not by the mainstream and definitely I don't see the vitriolic venom aimed at them that the PT received ala (George Lucas raped my childhood). I can only imagine that the ST will grow in stature as time goes by.
     
  25. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    The PT was made in a different time to the ST. Different circumstances. Remember the ST has never had to deal with being the only Star wars. Rogue one. Solo. Rebels. Even Clone wars were also giving fans something new to talk about. I dunno if that will do the ST any favours in future sense. The PT had to deal with its comparison to the OT, but overall is more appreciated now for its differences.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020