ST Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico) in TLJ

And at that point, FinnRose didn't have much of a choice since their ship got blown up.

 

I don't really have any criticism of Finn and Rose for hooking up with DJ to finish their mission. They rejected him at first. They only went with him when he saved them, and they were in a very desperate situation. If anything, I think that's one of the more understandable choices they made. It's in stark contrast with, for example, freeing space horses that will immediately be recaptured but leaving the slave children, BS'ing at the casino while their compatriots are slaughtered, and of course, SpaceBalls! parking on the beach.

 

Literally no one was slaughtered while they were at the casino. They stop looking for a minute to give us Rose's backstory, but even that's over because bb-8 finds the codebreaker and they get caught when they see him. Their choice was not between saving the slaves and the space horses. They freed the space horses as a distraction and caused a lot of damage. Finn was glad that caused damage while Rose thought freeing the horses was what made it worth it. What could they do with the slaves or the space horses for that matter to make them truly free? They didn't have the spaceship for a rescue mission for 30 kids, plus they were not going back to the Raddus. They just had time to escape so if the rebels survived then one day, not only could those kid slaves be freed, all slaves could be( though I doubt it because those kids were slaves under the new republic and they seemed to look the other way the first time, so they would again).

 

I mean, I'm sorry did their friends have time to waste? Were they not being stalked by an army intent on massacring every last one of them? I know when I was watching it, I felt a sense of urgency that I didn't feel was shared by Finn and Rose at the casino. I did feel it when they went with the criminal they shared a cell with out of pure desperation.

Yes, both Finn and Rose felt different, totally irrelevant things that didn't actually help anyone made it all "worth it." Then the child slaves cheered them on, lest the audience watch the freed space horses and still-enslaved children with a cynical eye.

 

Their friends were not in a rush because they were relatively safe. They landed and went straight to the casino. Finn sees the horse racing on the balcony of the casino and says this place is awesome and Rose explains why its not. It took a minute. Their plan only became urgent because Poe saw that Holdo was fueling the ships and wanted them to hurry up and complete their mission so that he jump into hyperspeed. He performs his mutiny after checking in with Rose and Finn to be able to buy them some time and be ready to jump at a seconds notice.

"Worth it" is used within the context of their escape. They were trapped and about to be caught again. Finn is at peace because even though they failed it was "worth it to tear up that town" while Rose was at peace because they freed the horses( now its worth it). Both are temporary fixes to big problems and they were finding short term successes in their failed plan. It gives us a view of their differing philosophies that come into play later. Most of the horses will get caught again and the town will be rebuilt but
The kids cheer for the same reason they helped them in the first place, because they are rebels and without them they will never be free. They never expected to be freed, not that day anyway. But helping them today will hopefully led to their freedom one day.

 

well said

 

They were “relatively safe”? What?

This is an agree to disagree moment because I don’t even know what you’re talking about. From the second the FO tracked them through hyperspace, the situation was very dire. I don’t even know why you’re arguing about it. If you felt the tone of those scenes matched the urgency of the situation, great, but you’re not going to retroactively change the fact that while watching it, I didn’t.

Why are you explaining the scene to me as though I don’t understand it? I get why each character felt it was worth it. I referenced that in my post. I’ve seen the movie. I don’t need to see it filtered through you. I also understand what RJ wanted to convey through the cheering slave children. That’s irrelevant to my point, which is that the message is stupidly tone deaf.

 

When Anakin and Shmi were slaves they had chips in their bodies that would blow them up if they tried to escape. Those kids can try to escape if they want but they are choosing not to. Why? (Point is it may not be so simple to free them.)

Finn and Rose don't know how many kids are there total and even if they did they can't take them with them into danger. They're safer where they are.

 

Broom Boy don't wanna leave. Broom Boy don't give a ****.

 

I’ve never really gotten the whole “why don’t they free the kids?” complaint.

What are they going to do, bring the kids with them through a perilous horse chase, into a warzone, on a super-secret mission, behind enemy lines? There’s literally no way for Finn and Rose to actually bring the kids with them.

 

I don't blame this on Tran - she didn't write the script.

But here we are.

 

@2Cleva
I think (but I don't have anything in support of this claim) that the movie was suggesting that Finn's desperate sacrifice had no hope to stop the cannon anyway, so I think that we are supposed to believe that she actually managed to save him from an inconsequential death.

 

I think it's more to do with "freeing the animals" and not the slaves that the complaints are about. Though they didn't really free the animals, but more so just trashed the town. If slaves can have implants in SW, then race horses very likely do too.

 

In the movie and novel she’s frustrated by how he’d risk so much for Rey and leave this movement and then Finn seems to inspire her to do the same. She risks her life to save his because he likely would have just been a mosquito going into a Death Star beam. He saved Rey. She saved him. People aren’t thought of as pawns in the Resistance to the same degree as they are the FO.

Well said.

 

Yeah, I know that you are a big fan of this interpretation.

 

RJ gave most of the supporting characters mini arcs that show them changing slightly from where they started VIII. I see that as hers. She’s someone who before meeting Finn may have done that run herself perhaps. Her sister at the start did something similar that actually worked and that’s what makes Finn’s influence on her and her influence on Finn so interesting. She sees the value in being guided as Finn is by saving what he loves. She even comes to think he’s onto something and that it’s a guiding principle that will separate them from their enemy. And conversely... she’s helped him to become more committed to the Resistance effort to the extent where he was willing to risk himself for it the same way he was Rey in VII. However, he has more value to the effort and to others than just constantly seeing himself as a sacrificial pawn who will take the bullet and being seen as that by someone else who nearly took the bullet because theh saw him and his life as important and far more than the number he perhaps still sees himself as at times.... well, it seems to move him. He’s used to being that guy. Not being cared for by others enough for them to do that for him. Their different views rubbed off on each other as they spent time together.

 

WELL SAID!!!

 

Something felt off about Rose as a character when I first saw TLJ. She is well rounded: has a strong backstory, motivation, the arc you mention and so on. What could it be?

A few days ago, when I read Oscar Isaac's quotes about the Che and Castro, the fork screech I heard in my mind reminded me of something, and it was Rose. She has this soviet propaganda vs soviet reality air: Rose the mechanic is propaganda, Rose the stunner is reality. Rose the Kommissar.

I like DJ better. Regular bad person, less creepy.

 

I like her, I wanted to like Rose as I understood some of her motivation. The script went wildly awry. I hope Rose and Finn will have something to do that makes their characters soar in IX. I think with their backgrounds something very cool could be done.

 

My honest point of view... She's the worst character in Star Wars.

I'm sure KMT is a lovely girl but Rose Tico is painful to watch. Her motives, her dialogue, her arc - it just didn't feel legitimate to me. I don't like the term 'social justice warrior' but I suppose that's what I see with Rose when I watch TLJ.

The crashing into Finn scene was the last straw for me. One of the two should've perished in that collision. It would've had so much power but they opted to keep both alive which was an odd choice given that it allowed the FO to break through the base door. Then we had the cheesiest line in all 8 SW films "dummy" - just horrible writing.

Perhaps in time, i'll start warming to her but I can't see it.

 

I don't see anything in her character that would make her a "Social Justice Warrior", which is a ridiculous term anyway. She is a staunch supporter of the resistance, and she dislikes those who put their own interests over those of everyone, especially when it comes to those who benefit of those who commit atrocities. If those are attributes of a "SJW" than you might as well call everyone who ever rebelled against an authoritarian system "SJWs".

She and DJ are the two conflicting elements for Finn's character development. She is the idealist who exemplifies fighting for what is good and right, that there is something worth fighting for other than naked self-interest. He is the cynic who shows him how corrupt the galaxy truly is and that he is better off just looking after himself. He ends up siding with her point of view, because it is the caring side that won't betray you, while DJ did just that to guarantee his own safety.

I don't see anything odd about her choice in the battle either. You are going of the assumption that his sacrifice would have prevented the door from being taken down. There isn't really anything that says his attempt would have changed anything about that. Granted, it's something that couild have made a bit clearer, but if you can't just accept the idea that it wouldn't have worked, then you can't really accept the idea that his attempt would have worked either, as that option didn't have any proof going its way either.

I don't see anything particularly powerful about someone dying in the process. Some people seem to love that idea and pretend that it is always the best and most impactful way, and I just don't see it. Could it have worked? Yes, but it was hardly something that would have added much. I for one prefer not to go down that route all the time, especially when multiple characters already have sacrificed themselves in the same movie (Paige, Holdo, and in a way Luke as well). It would feel like it is the same outcome every time such a situation arises. Then again, I also love the fact that Luxas kept true to his idea and didn't have Han die at the end of RotJ. Ending the saga (at that point in time) on a high note was a much better idea than having it go out on a somber one. Having Anakin return to the light and die to save Luke was already enough for that.

 

I really wished RJ gave KMT a better script. Coming from her comedy background, she effectively tackled dramatic acting, but the character Rian created and her arc was severely lacking.

 

At this point, I doubt any of us have much new to add - and I include myself there. So, for what it's worth (not much, given what I just said LOL).... and let me add the obligatory, but warranted note that it's silly to hold an actor responsible for the actions of his/her character.

I don't think you can necessarily judge an action by the outcome. At the time that Finn and Rose and company are attacking the mega-cannon, they have no idea that Luke is going to show up. No idea that there is a back exit, or that the trapped members of the Resistance are anything BUT trapped (before Rey shows up with the Falcon, even a back exit wouldn't have helped much...and even WITH the Falcon, how many people could be ferried off-planet?). In other words, if someone doesn't find some way to take out that cannon, the doors are going to get blasted down, and everyone left in the Resistance is going to be captured or killed. The BEST outcome is they "just" get captured - at least in theory they COULD escape later and continue to fight back, in some way. In other words, if there ever was a do or die moment, a desperate, "anything we got" moment, this is it. As far as anyone can possibly reasonable foresee, if that cannon isn't taken out, the Resistance ends right here, and probably with most of the Resistance (what little is left of it!) being killed.

There is no guarantee that Finn's suicide run will accomplish anything. But it's a pretty safe bet what will happen if he doesn't try. The fact that the script writers pull a big "AHA" surprise or ten doesn't change that. Sheer unforeseen luck, or salvation, ain't a plan. Finn isn't throwing his life away cavalierly, or foolishly, this isn't the first option he embraces when there are many others on the table. He's seizing what is probably their only chance. That it turns out otherwise doesn't negate that.

In that context, Rose's maneuver just doesn't make sense...it's selfish on a giant scale. It's not selfish in a mean spirited way, but its selfish nonetheless. And yet, you can feel that the moviemakers want us to see this as a big romantic, positive moment...one we're meant to embrace. (Apparently the First Order gunners were so moved by the moment that they don't blast Rose and Finn to pieces, there or as he drags her back over the completely uncovered and open salt plain).

It's doubly weird in a movie that gives us so many OTHER moments where we're clearly meant to applaud self-sacrifice to save others. Rose's sister, Holdo, Luke...I mean the movie is FULL of them. So which is it?

So.. while I liked a lot of "Last JedI", this moment - among a few others - seems jarringly discordant for me, a major head scratching "HUH?" moment. No matter how many times I turn it over in my head and try to come at it from other angles...it just doesn't work for me.

PS - Try this...take out the romance element. And take out the SW element. Picture this as WW2, and a battleship is moving into position to shell a port town and kill everyone in it. A pilot, out of bombs, decides to crash his plane into the battleship, in a last ditch effort to damage it or destroy it and save his comrades in the town. ANOTHER pilot crashes HIS plane into the first, knocking it off course, so they crash into the ocean... would you see this as anything but strange? Foolish? Misguided? Do Rose' feelings for Finn somehow make her actions better, or do they make them even MORE selfish?

 

Finn already saw the Falcon on Crait, when he attempted the suicide run.

 

I think we're meant to see that Finn's suicide run is futile and will accomplish nothing, while the other sacrifices are calculated to actually accomplish their goal. So we're meant to see how run as reckless.

I admit though that this should have been made clearer.