ST Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico) in TLJ

Fair enough, we might say that TLJ almost passed the test

 

HC and Jar Jar

 

That's how my first kiss went down as well. Ah, sweet memories. Nothing more romantic than the blood curdling screams of all your friends getting Death Star'd in the face.

The weird emo man screaming from his ship constantly also helped set the mood.

In all seriousness, I think Kelly Marie Tran is a good actress, though I really didn't like the Rose character herself, though Holdo is quite a bit worse.

 

The problem is that in the previous scene in the bunker, Finn, being former FO, identifies the canon as miniaturized Death Star tech, demonstrating that he knows the weapon and how it functions. So it doesn’t seem logical that he would have no idea how to disrupt it, and adopt a completely wrong approach to destroying it. Which also implies that Finn isn’t very bright. I mean, if the beam was going to melt him before he could disrupt it, why didn’t he crash into it from an angle as opposed to striking it head on? The implication of the scene, to me, still seems to be that he might be able to destroy it by striking it head on. And that Rose disrupts him not because it might work, but because she believes that he might die in the process. That’s why she says “you dummy, I saved you” and “we’ll win by not fighting what we hate, but saving what we love” instead of “you dummy, the speeder would’ve melted/ fallen apart before you even hit the canon, so it wouldn’t have worked.” The practical interpretation that Finn’s attack run wouldn’t have destroyed the canon just isn’t supported by either the action or the dialogue of the scenes. Which is why so many people interpret it as Rose potentially dooming everyone else just to save Finn. It’s a very poorly constructed scene.

 

This scene isn’t the most bothersome to me in terms of lore or characterization, but this is why I actually think it is the worst scene in the entire movie narrative-wise. It’s the scene that most visibly made my casual fan family react in confusion and disgust in the theater. It was one of the first things brought up in the care ride home. It’s hard for me to quantify how tone deaf I think it is, but this does a pretty good job getting there. In my experience, basically everyone was distracted by the explosion that should kill all their friends during the kiss.

Another part of the problem is that people were desperate for Finn to have his moment. The scene destroys the payoff of that, so it’s an emotional dead end.

I don’t think it comes across that Rose was saving Finn from his stupidity, and I’m not convinced at all that that was RJ’s intent from the start. However, because the scene is so bewildering, and RJ’s script doesn’t demonstrate very much respect for Finn anyway, it’s easy for me to watch it with the interpretation that Rose was saving that “dummie” from an exercise in futility.

 

Martin is short.

 

That's a brilliant point.
My take was that even if Finn was aware that the kamikaze attack was useless, in that precise moment the desperation made him lose lucidity and do something completely irrational. More or less like Denethor in The Lord of the rings.

 

Thanks. My best points simply note that that there's a problem, but with no explanation.

 

Mhm, knowing about a weapon doesn't mean you know how to take it out. And I doubt that crashing into it from the side would have accomplished much at all. Look at how massive that thing is and how fragile those speeders were.

But you do have a point, it could reasonably be assumed that Finn could have known better, and the scene might not have done all that well in explaning that it wouldn't have worked. On the other hand, at least the first part can be explained by the argument mentioned by 3sm1r.

The whole thing probably would have looked better if it had been clearer that Finn's attempt would fail, though it would probably behard to show that and keep up the suspense of him actually trying it. I don't think that is really an issue with Rose though, more a general issue that ends up affecting her.

 

You're right, that does sound like a good way to show Finn's intent, the issue of his idea not working, and it makes Rose look a bit better as well. It doesn't fully avoid the issue of Finn having to be saved because he got it wrong, but it probably feels like a more natural "wrong", if that makes any sense.

 

Right idea but wrong timing would work a lot better than Finn just going full kamikaze because drama.

 

There are about a million ways to make that scene work better.

 

Rose Tico holds the entire movie together.

At the end of The Force Awakens, Finn had made some progress, but this arc was far from over. He cared about Rey enough to overcome his fears and accompany Han and Chewie to Starkiller in an effort to rescue her. But he wasn’t honest about his reasons for going. He exaggerated his knowledge of Starkiller because as he told Han, he was just there for Rey. He didn’t care about the Resistance, or their cause.

Finn meets two people in The Last Jedi who have a profound effect on him. Rose is in agony over the loss of her sister, yet is still holding to her ideals and devoted to the Resistance. She has lost everything but will simply not quit. Then in stark contrast he meets DJ who has no convictions at all. Finally the light bulb comes on and Finn takes a side. He faces off with the embodiment of his greatest fear in Phasma and pronounces himself “Rebel” scum. He is fully on board now and is a different person by the time they reach Crait.

Finn is so gung-ho, in a display reminiscent of Poe’s previous unwillingness to follow orders, he tries to take on the First Order all by himself. Rose saves him because she believes the way to win is not by throwing your life away, but by living to fight another day, obviously informed by the loss of her sister.

Poe learns to respect authority before he can be in a position of authority and a true leader. Rey goes from seeking to identify herself through others to being comfortable with who she is and understands her place in the galaxy. There is just so much character development and wonderful storytelling. The Last Jedi is a great movie.

 

Rose saves Finn because she loves him.

Also it's been a while since I watched TLJ, but isn't "dummy" about her seeing him as oblivious to her feelings for him?

Some things are more important than if Finn's high risk effort could have worked or not? What if there's no way to know for sure if it would have--only guesses?

 

I wish the writer/director didn't write a Rose to be a stereotype.

He said "When I wrote the character of Rose, she was a genuine nerd, the type I would hang out with in high school. And she looked like she didn't belong in a Star Wars movie"

She was intentionally written and cast to be a stereotype that has historically been mocked or made fun of, and one that was intentionally written to seem out of place in Star Wars. Now I wonder what kind of role she could possibly have under JJ Abrams, as I can't imagine Abrams ever writing and casting the character of Rose. She doesn't really have anything to offer like the other characters. Leia is a leader. Poe is a leader and the best pilot in the galaxy. Rey is the most powerful character among the rebels. Finn....I guess as a former stormtrooper can give intel to the rebels. Rose? I just don't see where she fits in.

It's why I like Glenn from The Walking Dead. He is just a normal guy. He is not a martial arts expert or a scientist or a nerd. He's just a normal dude who happens to be Korean American. And Steven Yeun's portrayal in The Walking Dead has helped image of Asians in Western countries.

 

She's a technician, is she not?
That seems pretty useful. Chewie and R2 filled that kind of role in the past whenever it was needed, so why not someone else as well?
It's not like you need every character to have a unique skill that sets him apart from everyone else anyway. Wars aren't just fought by special heroes who excel in a specific area, they are also fought by common men and women, in all sort of fields, both combat and non-combat roles.

You can find other examples in past movies as well. 3PO was mostly a translator, but that isn't really something that was needed most of the time, but he still fit in. Or look at what Lando had to offer, he was an administrator in ESB, seemed somewhat sufficient with a gun, but none of that really screamed "he's going to be leading the fleet in the attack on the second Death Star", but it still worked really well in RotJ. And Porkins didn't exactly look like a trained fighter pilote either

 

Lando owned the Falcon before Han. And for him to be the leader of Cloud City means he must be a natural leader. It makes perfect sense that he'd be useful to the rebel forces.

Rose, not so much. There are many mechanics.

 

I think Rose will be fine. A good writer can make a good character arc for almost any character and Rose already has enough personality as a character and a good actress to help give her a compelling storyline. Her also being a mechanic can help as well.

That being said, she'll probably be on an adventure this time around with someone that's not Finn. I'm not really sure how much screentime she will get in comparison to Finn, Rey, Kylo, and Poe but I feel like they'll give her something to do.

Also, this is random but honestly Glenn's the best character in The Walking Dead and when he died that's when the show ended for me. However I feel like that was the point of Rose in a similar way. She's a very normal character much like Glenn and let's be real here: being a nerd is a very normal thing (especially these days). Rey is the powerful Jedi, Poe is the pilot, BB-8 is the very handy droid, Finn is a former stormtrooper with loads of intelligence on the First Order and problem solving, and Rose is the normal mechanic with a lot of heart.

Wow, now I actually really want to see this team dynamic play out in Episode IX. Heck, Rose being the "normal one" could even be a part of her character arc. You never know.

 

The problem is that heroism, in such a case, would require acting despite not being sure it would work. That beam is about to vaporize the entire remainder of the Resistance. So you try to take it out. And given the way the Rose intervention plays out, it seems that this particular value of heroism is being disputed. If Rose saves Finn because she loves him more than she cares about the Resistance, then that’s a pretty selfish message to promote. Different, but akin to portraying Anakin’s turn to the dark side, and joining with Palpatine, as a good thing because he was trying to “protect what he loves.” That kind of emotional empathy reserved solely for one’s in-group can be enormously destructive, and is at odds with SW philosophy.

That said, I think RJ meant for it to be much clearer that Finn’s gambit was absolutely futile. But it wasn’t.

 

Rose doesn't think it is going to work so she saves Finn.
Finn is willing to try it. It's still heroic.

 

Honestly, the debate surrounding Rose saving Finn is heavily dependent on whether or not you think that Finn's suicide run would have worked because Rose obviously didn't.

I'm in the "It Wouldn't Have Worked" camp and I felt that the movie gave sufficient evidence to support that claim, so therefore her saving him doesn't bother me in the slightest. Also, Finn dying would have probably made give up on the ST altogether.

 

I think chances are it wouldn't have worked but it's like testing cars for safety. They can't simply abstractly decide how the car will respond to different forces or whatever. They still physically test it to confirm. (At least according to commercials )

Lots of moments arise in stories where it looks like something won't work and one would be crazy to try, but then, luck of luck, it does work.

Han navigated that asteroid field against impossible odds, for instance.

Maybe Finn's ship would have retained enough speed even as it's reduced to a melted metal glob to sabotage the cannon. I wouldn't have tried it; I agree with Rose. But to me it's not something that makes Finn look bad or something.

Also Poe probably would have committed them all to it had it not been for his "lessons" earlier in the film. TLJ was the first time he learns about suicide runs apparently.

 

Owning a ship doesn't make you a capable leader of a fleet, and neither does being an administrator in Cloud City. It wasn't about whether he was useful for the rebel forces, it was whether he was suitable for the role he played in RotJ, and nothing he did in ESB really showed that he was, yet they managed to pull it off anyway.

There are also many droids, yet we constantly got R2 and 3PO. There are many pilots, yet Wedge appeared in three movies in a row, as the only pilot to boot.
And just like that, there are countless ways to implement Rose into the story in a good way. Pretending that she couldn't really fit any role simply isn't based on anything we have seen happening in Star Wars. She has been shown in combat, she has been shown being involved with mechanic work and all sort of machinery, she inspected the military equipment available to the resistance on Crait. It's just odd to claim that she couldn't possibly fit in.