ST Keri Russell (Zorri Bliss) in Episode IX

I love her look. Like others have said, I hope she’s more than a substitute Phasma.

If anything, Zorri makes me more curious about the movie.

 

It sounds like she's involved in some shady dealings, so hiding her identity makes sense. Kind of like how a bank robber might wear a ski-mask. I wouldn't read too much into it. I know some people will start suspecting that her identity is hidden because there's going to be some huge reveal about her character, and I suppose that's possible, but we've seen other characters in SW hide their identities without any huge reveals (Captain Phasma and Boba Fett spring to mind immediately.) This seems like the sort of thing where people could set themselves up for disappointment by expecting too much from what will likely just be a peripheral character with a cool costume.

 

I bet she is Rey's mother and nicknames her daughter "Bliss". She is sorry about what happened, so: "Sorry, Bliss".

 

I love her look. It reminds me of the rocketeer.

 

It's a great look, but also just more SW cliche.

 

God forbid it’s a look that looks like it belongs in Star Wars...

 

Not belongs. Like it's trying too hard to belong. A SW fan imitating SW.

That's JJ's problem: too meta.

 

(sigh)

 

everything is meta these days

But it’s not like JJ works in the design department, so that criticism doesn’t really make sense. Maybe he selected the design from a few options, but still.

 

Everything does not need to be self-conscious reflection on the story and the writer's relation to it.

BTW, JJ admits in the article he approaches it this way, and that is exactly what I dislike about the ST. Tell a story, not a story about a story!

And yes, of course JJ picked the design out. He has the final say on the looks of the characters and probably even leads the designers towards concepts he desires.

 

Firstly it's possible for the future entires to reflect upon the previous entires (what many here like to loosely refer to as 'meta') and how these stories have affected the universe itself, and tell a story which is also separate from that.

Secondly that design isn't meta. It's your favourite term obviously but please learn its definition.

 

You seem to be the one who doesn't understand what it means. Meta in relation to storytelling has to do with an author's self-conscious approach to storytelling. That means it's story about the story as a story, not a pure story in itself.

Metafiction. Not only do I like it in the right context, but I write plenty of it myself. I however do not like it in SW.

The meta aspect here is that a certain kind of look has been chosen likely not for organic story reasons, but because of the creators' awareness of SW.

 

Yes, I'm aware of what it means. Its entirely possible to have some meta elements and some non-meta elements. It's not either-or like you suggest.

How do you know why it was chosen?

 

Again JJ isn’t the one who designed the character, how can a costume he didn’t design be his self-conscious approach to storytelling? Now what role the character plays in the story, sure that could come across as cliche or not depending on how the character is utilized.

 

I never said it was either-or though. I said I like meta-narrative in the right context, but that I don't enjoy it in SW, and I have a specific reason for this. In fact, I wouldn't mind SW meta stories with certain characters, like perhaps Solo, Lando, or Dr. Aphra. But at least in Saga SW, or SW stories that function similarly, I'd like them to aim at being pure myth.

You'd have to be aesthetically blind not to see the previous SW influences here, and the odds of those influences being caused organically by the story are small indeed.

@starfish

This is a very strange thing to assume about the writer-director of the film, especially when SW fans are so aware of Lucas picking out designs he likes, designs that fit the story he wrote.

First, we don't know whether the costume was inspired by his story ideas or not. But that doesn't matter because he doesn't have to be the designer of the costume itself for him to choose it based on his self-conscious approach to story. In other words, he looks at the design and says, "that evokes previous SW imagery, I like it. Not, that fits the story needs perfectly."

But whoever did make the costume, if it wasn't based on story, it was based on a self-awareness of the SW look. Which I find annoying because it reminds us too much that this is a story, not a character.

 

Yes you did. You said 'tell a story not a story about a story'. I'm merely pointing out you can have both in one story.

It's in the same universe, of course they are going to be aesthetically similar. How does that make it 'meta'? Even if it were a conscious call-back that doesn't make it 'meta'.

 

Exactly.
Meanwhile, I've seen people in another thread complaining that Jannah's costume and crossbow doesn't look enough like it belongs in the SW universe. It's really a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation for these filmmakers.

 

What you're pointing out is true, but obvious. Of course you can do both. And of course you don't need to do both either. And I'm saying I only want one in Saga-style SW because in my view that's what I enjoy about the first six movies. They focused much more on telling a story rather than how some director feels about working on SW. I don't find that interesting at all. If you do, great.

Of course they are going to look the same in such a huge galaxy? Of course? No, not of course. In such a huge galaxy, we should expect some diversity in design. Why would everyone dress in the same style across hundreds or thousands of planets?

What makes it meta is the designers are basing their designs off of a fictional look, not a look designed on imagined worlds. That's what makes it lazy and non-organic.

You just demonstrated that indeed you're the one who doesn't understand the difference between organic and meta storytelling. You have a lot of nerve passing yourself off as an authority. I prefer those who have worked hard at actually understanding a concept.

 

I already acknowledged that JJ probably selected the costume design. But people are complaining about the costume in and of itself regardless of story.

It can also be both, it fits the Star Wars look and it fits the story. All costumes have a story behind them, especially in a franchise like Star Wars. We don’t know the story yet, but in the meantime it looks cool as ****.

 

I agree that it looks cool. I deny there's any necessary story reason for it to look this way.

It looks this way because "Star Wars."

If that's enough for you, so be it.

For me, it takes me out of the story. I believe the GFFA is a big place and there should be not a bit, but a lot of diversity of design.

 

Purple Power Ranger.

 

She doesn't look the same, but she shares a design aesthetic with other character within the universe. You're trying to read into the minds of the designers and assuming they had this 'meta' intent when this isn't necessarily the case. Having the characters share a similar design aesthetic can obviously be arrived at organically. In order to know whether there is a 'metanarrative' at work regarding the design of this character you need the entire context of her story within the film which we don't know as of yet.

You also seem to be unaware of the blurry line between being 'meta' and simply designing something that is consistent with the universe. She, to me, looks like a character utilising similar design aesthetics from within the universe however with a clear distinctiveness.

 

I love her name, and that helmet is amazing.

 

Meta, according to standard Classical Greek lexicon, the Liddel, Scott, and Johnson. Mehercule! When you use a preposition, supply its object!

μετά [α^, but α_ in S.Ph.184 (s. v. l., lyr.)], poet. μεταί , dub., only in μεταιβολία; Aeol., Dor., Arc. πεδά (q.v.): Prep. with gen., dat., and acc. (Cf. Goth.
A.mip, OHG. miti, mit 'with'.)

A. WITH GEN. (in which use μ. gradually superseded σύν, q.v.),
I. in the midst of, among, between, with pl. Nouns, “μετ᾽ ἄλλων λέξο ἑταίρων” Od.10.320; “μ. δμώων πῖνε καὶἦσθε” 16.140; “τῶν μέτα παλλόμενος” Il.24.400; “πολλῶν μ. δούλων” A.Ag.1037; “μ. ζώντων εἶναι”S.Ph.1312; “ὅτων οἰκεῖς μέτα” Id.OT414; “μ. τῶν θεῶν διάγουσα” Pl.Phd.81a (but κεῖσθαι μ. τινός with one, S.Ant.73): sts. the pl. is implied, μετ᾽ οὐδενὸς ἀνδρῶν ναίειν, i.e. among no men, Id.Ph.1103 (lyr.), etc.
II. in common, along with, by aid of (implying a closer union than σύν）“, μ. Βοιωτῶν ἐμάχοντο” Il.13.700, cf. 21.458; συνδιεπολέμησαν “τὸν πόλεμον μ. Ἀθηναίων” IG12.108.7; “μ. ξυμμάχων ξυγκινδυνεύσειν” Th.8.24, cf. 6.79, etc.; μ. τῆς βουλῆς in co-operation with the council, IG12.91.10: in this sense freq. (not in ll., Od., Pi., rare in early Gr.) with sg., μετ᾽ Ἀθηναίης with, i.e. by aid of, Athena, h.Hom. 20.2; “μ. εἷο” Hes.Th.392; μ. τινὸςπάσχειν, δρᾶν τι, A.Pr.1067 (anap.), S.Ant.70; μ. τινὸς εἶναι to be on one's side, Th.3.56; “μ. τοῦ ἠδικημένουἔσεσθαι” X.Cyr.2.4.7; “μ. τοῦ νόμου καὶ τοῦ δικαίου” Pl.Ap.32b: generally, with, together with, with Subst. in sg. first in Hdt. (in whom it is rare exc. in the phrase οἱ μ. τινός, v. infr.), as “κοιμᾶσθαι μ. τινός” 3.68, Timocl.22.2; “εὕδειν μ. τινός” Hdt.3.84; οἱ μ. τινός his companions, Id.1.86, al., Pl.Prt.315b: freq. with Prons., “μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ”S. Ant.73; “μετ᾽ ἐμοῦ” Ar.Ach.661 (anap.), etc.: less freq. of things, “στέγη πυρὸς μ.” S.Ph.298; “μ. κιθάρας”E.IA1037 (lyr.); “μ. τυροῦ” Ar.Eq.771, etc.; “τὴν δίαιταν μεθ᾽ ὅπλων ἐποιήσαντο” Th.1.6, cf. E.Or.573; “ὄχλοςμ. μαχαιρῶν καὶ ξύλων” Ev.Matt.26.47: indicating community of action and serving to join two subjects, Κλεομένης μετὰ Ἀθηναίων C. and the Athenians, Th.1.126: with pl. Verb, “Δημοσθένης μ. τῶν ξυστρατήγωνσπένδονται” Id.3.109, etc.; of things, in conjunction with, “ἰσχύν τε καὶ κάλλος μετὰ ὑγιείας” Pl.R.591b; γῆραςμ. πενίας ib.330a.
III. later, in one's dealings with, “ὅσα ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς μετ᾽ αὐτῶν” Act.Ap. 14.27; “ὁ ποιήσας τὸ ἔλεος μετ᾽αὐτοῦ” Ev.Luc.10.36; “τί ἡμῖν συνέβη μ. τῶν ἀρχόντων” PAmh.2.135.15 (ii A.D.): even of hostile action, “σὺποιεῖς μετ᾽ ἐμοῦ πονηρίαν” LXX Jd.11.27, cf. 15.3; “πολεμῆσαι μ. τινός” Apoc.12.7, cf. Apollod.Poliorc.190.4codd. (but μ. may be a gloss), Wilcken Chr.23.10 (v A.D.), OGI201.3 (Nubia, vi A. D.): to denote the union of persons with qualities or circumstances, and so to denote manner, “τὸ ἄπραγμον . . μὴ μ. τοῦ δραστηρίου τεταγμένον”Th.2.63, etc.; “ἱκετεῦσαι μ. δακρύων” Pl.Ap.34c; “οἴκτου μέτα” S.OC1636; “μετ᾽ ἀσφαλείας μὲν δοξάζομεν, μετὰ δέους δὲ . . ἐλλείπομεν” Th.1.120, cf. IG22.791.12; “μ. ῥυθμοῦ βαίνοντες” Th.5.70; ὅσα μετ᾽ ἐλπίδωνλυμαίνεται ib.103, etc.; “ψυχὴν ὁσίως βεβιωκυῖαν καὶ μετ᾽ ἀληθείας” Pl.Grg.526c, cf. Phdr.249a, 253d; also, by means of, “μετ᾽ ἀρετῆς πρωτεύειν” X.Mem. 3.5.8; “γράφε μ. μέλανος” PMag.Lond.121.226.
2. serving to join two predicates, γενόμενος μ. τοῦ δυνατοῦ καὶ ξυνετός, i.e. δυνατός τε καὶ ξυνετός, Th.2.15; “ὅταν πλησιάζῃ μ. τοῦ ἅπτεσθαι” Pl.Phdr. 255b.
IV. rarely of Time, μ. τοῦ γυμνάζεσθαι ἠλείψαντο, for ἅμα, Th.1.6; μετ᾽ ἀνοκωχῆς during . . , Id.5.25.
B. WITH DAT., only poet., mostly Ep.:
I. between, among others, but without the close union which belongs to the genitive, and so nearly = ἐν, which is sts. exchanged with it, “μ. πρώτοισι . . ἐν πυμάτοισι” Il.11.64:
1. of persons, among, in company with, “μετ᾽ ἀθανάτοισι” Il.1.525; “μετ᾽ ἀνθρώποις” B.5.30; “μ. κόραισιΝηρῆος” Pi.O.2.29; μ. τριτάτοισιν ἄνασσεν in the third generation (not μ. τριτάτων belonging to it), Il.1.252; of haranguing an assembly, “μετ᾽ Ἀργείοις ἀγορεύεις” 10.250, etc.; between, of two parties, “φιλότητα μετ᾽ ἀμφοτέροισι βάλωμεν” 4.16.
2. of things, μ. νηυσίν, ἀστράσι, κύμασιν, 13.668, 22.28, Od.3.91; “δεινὸν δ᾽ ἐστὶ θανεῖν μ. κύμασιν”Hes. Op.687; “χαῖται δ᾽ ἐρρώοντο μ. πνοιῇς ἀνέμοιο” Il.23.367; “αἰετὼ . . ἐπέτοντο μ. π. ἀ.” Od.2.148.
3. of separate parts of persons, between, μ. χερσὶν ἔχειν to hold between, i.e. in, the hands, Il.11.4, 184, S. Ph.1110 (lyr.), etc.; “τὸν μ. χ. ἐρύσατο” Il.5.344; ὅς κεν . . πέσῃ μ. ποσσὶ γυναικός, of a child being born, 'to fall between her feet', 19.110; so μ. γένυσσιν, γαμφηλῇσιν, 11.416, 13.200; “μ. φρεσί” 4.245, etc.
II. to complete a number, besides, over and above, αὐτὰρ ἐγὼ πέμπτος μ. τοῖσιν ἐλέγμην I reckoned myself to be with them a fifth, Od.9.335, cf. Il.3.188; Οὖτιν . . πύματον ἔδομαι μ. οἷς ἑτάροισι last to complete the number, i.e. after, Od.9.369, cf. A.Pers.613, Theoc.1.39, 17.84.
III. c. dat. sg., only of collect. Nouns (or the equivalent of such, “μεθ᾽ αἵματι καὶ κονίῃσιν” Il.15.118), “μ. στροφάλιγγι κονίης” 21.503; “στρατῷ” 22.49; “μ. πρώτῃ ἀγορῇ” 19.50, etc.; “μετ᾽ ἀνδρῶν . . ἀριθμῷ”Od.11.449; “μετ᾽ ἄλλῳ λαῷ” A.Ch.365 (lyr.).
C. WITH ACCUS.,
I. of motion, into the middle of, coming into or among, esp. where a number of persons is implied, “ἵκοντο μ. Τρῶαςκαὶ Ἀχαιούς” Il.3.264; “μ. φῦλα θεῶν” 15.54, cf. Od.3.366, al.; “μ. μῶλον Ἄρηος” Il.16.245; “μ. λαὸν Ἀχαιών”5.573, al.; μ. στρατόν, μεθ᾽ ὅμιλον, μεθ᾽ ὁμήγυριν, 5.589, 14.21, 20.142: so of birds, ὥς τ᾽ αἰγυπιὸς μ. χῆνας(though this may be referred to signf. 2), 17.460; of things, “εἴ τινα φεύγοντα σαώσειαν μ. νῆας” 12.123; με μ. . . ἔριδας καὶ νείκεα βάλλει plunges me into them, 2.376; of place, “μ. τ᾽ ἤθεα καὶ νομὸν ἵππων” 6.511; δράγματαμετ᾽ ὄγμον πῖπτον into the midst of the furrow, 18.552.
2. in pursuit or quest of, of persons, sts. in friendlysense, βῆ ῥ᾽ ἰέναι μ. Νέστορα went to seek Nestor, Il.10.73, cf. 15.221: sts. in hostile sense, βῆναι μ. τινά to go after, pursue him, 5.152, 6.21, al.; also of things, πλεῖν μ. χαλκόν to sail in quest of it, Od.1.184; ἵκηαι μ. πατρὸς ἀκουήν in search of news of thy father, 2.308, cf. 13.415; “οἴχονται μ. δεῖπνον” Il.19.346; πόλεμον μέτα θωρήσσοντο they armed for the battle, 20.329; ὡπλίζοντο μεθ᾽ ὕλην prepared to seek after wood, 7.418, cf. 420; “μ. δούρατος ᾤχετ᾽ἐρωήν” 11.357; “μ. γὰρ δόρυ ᾔει οἰσόμενος” 13.247.
II. of sequence or succession,
1. of Place, after, behind, λαοὶ ἕπονθ᾽, ὡς εἴ τε μ. κτίλον ἕσπετο μῆλα like sheep after the bell-wether, Il.13.492, cf. Od.6.260, 21.190, h.Ven.69; “ἔσχατοι μ. Κύνητας οἰκέουσι” Hdt.4.49; μ. τὴν θάλασσανbeyond, on the far side of the sea, Theo Sm.p.122 H.
2. of Time, after, next to, “μ. δαῖτας” Od.22.352; μεθ᾽ Ἕκτορα πότμος ἑτοῖμος after Hector thy death is at the door, Il.18.96; “μ. Πάτροκλόν γε θανόντα” 24.575, cf. Hdt. 1.34; “μετ᾽ εὐχάν” A.Ag.231 (lyr.), etc.; “μ. ταῦτα” thereupon, there-after, h.Merc.126, etc.; “τὸ μ. ταῦτα” Pl.Phlb.34c; “τὸ μ. τοῦτο” Id.Criti.120a; μετ᾽ ὀλίγον ὕστερον shortly after, Id.Lg.646c; “μ. μικρόν” Luc. Demon.8; “μ. ἡμέρας τρεῖς μ. τὴνἄφεδρον” Dsc.2.19; “μ. ἔτη δύο” J.BJ 1.13.1; “μ. τρίτον ἔτος” Thphr.HP4.2.8; μ. χρυσόθρονον ἠῶ afterdaybreak, h.Merc.326: but μετ᾽ ἡμέρην by day, opp. νυκτός, Hdt.2.150, cf. Pl.Phdr.251e, etc.; μεθ᾽ἡμέραν, opp. νύκτωρ, E.Ba.485; “μ. νύκτας” Pi.N.6.6; μ. τὸν ἑξέτη καὶ τὴν ἑξέτιν after the boy or girl has attained the age of six years, Pl.Lg.794c.
3. in order of Worth, Rank, etc., next after, following Sup., “κάλλιστος ἀνὴρ . . τῶν ἄλλων Δαναῶν μετ᾽ἀμύμονα Πηλεΐωνα” Il.2.674, cf. 7.228, 12.104, Od.2.350, Hdt.4.53, X.Cyr.7.2.11, etc.; “κοῦροι οἳ . . ἀριστεύουσι μεθ᾽ ἡμέας” Od.4.652, cf. Isoc.9.18: where Sup. is implied, “ὃς πᾶσι μετέπρεπε . . μ. Πηλεΐωνος ἑταῖρον” Il.16.195, cf. 17.280, 351; μ. μάκαρας next to the gods, A.Th. 1080 (anap.); also μάχεσθαι μ. πολλοὺς τῶν Ἑλλήνων to be inferior in fighting to many . . , Philostr.Her.6.
III. after, according to, μ. σὸν καὶ ἐμὸν κῆρ as you and I wish, Il.15.52; “μετ᾽ ἀνέρος ἴχνι᾽ ἐρευνῶν” 18.321; “μετ᾽ ἴχνια βαῖνε” Od.2.406.
IV. generally, among, between, as with dat. (B.I), μ. πάντας ὁμήλικας ἄριστος best among all, Il.9.54, cf. Od.16.419; “μ. πληθύν” Il.2.143; μ. τοὺς τετελευτηκότας including those who have died, PLond.2.260.87 (i A.D.); “μ. χεῖρας ἔχειν” Hdt.7.16. β᾽, Th.1.138, POxy.901.9 (iv A.D.), cf. X.Ages.2.14, etc.
D. μετά with all cases can be put after its Subst., and is then by anastrophe μέτα, Il.13.301, but not when the ult. is elided, 17.258, Od.15.147.
E. abs. as ADV., among them, with them, Il.2.446,477, etc.; with him, “οὐκ οἶον, μ. καὶ Γανυμήδεα” A.R.3.115.
II. and then, next afterwards, opp. πρόσθε, Il.23.133.
III. thereafter, 15.67, Hdt.1.88, 128,150, A.Ag.759 (lyr.), etc.; μ. γάρ τε καὶ ἄλγεσι τέρπεται ἀνήρ one feels pleasure even in troubles, when past, Od.15.400; μ. δέ, for ἔπειτα δέ, Hdt.1.19, Luc.DMort.9.2, etc.
F. μέτα, -μέτεστι, Od.21.93, Parm.9.4, Hdt.1.88,171, S.Ant. 48,etc.
G. IN COMPOS.:
I. of community or participation, as in μεταδίδωμι, μετέχω, usu. c. gen. rei.
2. of action in common with another, as in μεταδαίνυμαι, μεταμέλπομαι, etc., c. dat. pers.
II. in the midst of, of space or time, as in “μεταδήμιος, μεταδόρπιος” 1; between, as in μεταίχμιον, μεταπύργιον.
III. of succession of time, as in “μεταδόρπιος” 2, μετακλαίω, μεταυτίκα.
IV. of pursuit, as in μεταδιώκω, μετέρχομαι.
V. of letting go, as in μεθίημι, μεθήμων.
VI. after, behind, as in μετάφρενον, opp. πρόσθε.
VII. reversely, as in μετατρέπω, μεταστρέφω.
VIII. most freq. of change of place, condition, plan, etc., as in μεταβαίνω, μεταβάλλω, μεταβουλεύω, μεταγιγνώσκω, etc.