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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Killing off characters: What does it accomplish?

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by MariahJade2, Aug 14, 2007.

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  1. VaderLVR64

    VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2004
    I think that killing off characters merely for shock value will back fire. Just as I think NOT killing off a character for ANY reason other than for the sake of the story itself will come off badly.

    I think the story tells you when a character must die and when they should not. It's when we don't listen to that little voice that we get in trouble as authors. I could never PROMISE not to kill a character unless I already had the whole story outlined in my head. Every story is different and makes different demands of the writer, and we must simply follow the path of the story, no matter where it leads. :)
     
  2. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Do you ever kill off any of your characters to provoke emotion in the readers, and do you think it was worth it?

    I have many times, but only because it justifies the remaining plotline and explains the end point of the story.

    Were the reader reactions what you expected?

    Very much so. Well, actually, mostly people were enthusiastic about me being bloodthirsty. It's sometimes creepy.

    Have you ever regretted doing it?

    Not for a character I've killed.

    Is it possible to have a dramatic or dark story without resorting to killing?

    Ask me about July 12, 2005-July 12, 2006. I inflicted more fear on my readers than ever simply because they knew I would not kill anyone, but that I still would write angst. They wanted release for the characters.

    Have you ever run out of ideas for a character and resorted to killing them off?

    Never.

    What, in your mind, are the right and wrong reasons for eliminating a character?

    Right:
    To move the story
    To induce a life-shaping experience
    To force a character to discover their strength on their own
    To stick to canon

    Wrong:
    For the sake of it
    To get rid of a pesky character
    To make someone realize their untold love for a Mary Sue

     
  3. lordmaul13

    lordmaul13 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2000
    Do you ever kill off any of your characters to provoke emotion in the readers, and do you think it was worth it?

    I've killed off many a character in my day. In fact, there's probably a reason why I don't write too many sequels. ;) With that said, I really don't know why I write so much death and violence. Like DarthIshtar said it is sometimes creepy, even to me. I don't know if it is "worth" it. It's just the way it is.

    Were the reader reactions what you expected?

    Surprise, horror, pity. Yes, pretty much what I expect.

    Have you ever regretted doing it?

    I have. I recently wrote a story called The Descent. I had two characters who were great friends and both were truly unique. Probably the best job I've ever done at making real characters. They had something of a Ton Phanan/Face Loran feel to them. Or maybe Wes/Hobbie with a dash of Wedge. Anyway, I originally planned that they would both die but I grew to like them so much that I altered that plan. How, you ask? [face_mischief]

    Is it possible to have a dramatic or dark story without resorting to killing?

    Others have answered this one far better and more eloquently than I can.

    Have you ever run out of ideas for a character and resorted to killing them off?

    No. I think that may be because I rarely write really long stories.

    What, in your mind, are the right and wrong reasons for eliminating a character?

    I don't even know my own reasons for killing off characters. I just do what feels right.

    ~lordmau1l3
     
  4. Drabba_the_Hutt

    Drabba_the_Hutt Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Anyone who's read my drabbles can tell you I'll kill off any character for a laugh. [face_devil]

    Beyond that, it mainly depends on what I'm trying to do with a story. Since I rarely write anything longer than one post, most of the inappropriate reasons don't come into play.
     
  5. Healer_Leona

    Healer_Leona Squirrel Wrangler of Fun & Games star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2000
    Awesome discussion thread.

    I'm especially intriuged by those characters you create to specifically kill off. How many of you have had to change the plot for those characters unwilling to die?
     
  6. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Never. I have one original character that I've killed in a different way in 5 different stories. She's not even a well-known, but if anyone has read me since 2001, she shows up and dies in all but one of the stories where she shows up.
     
  7. Healer_Leona

    Healer_Leona Squirrel Wrangler of Fun & Games star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2000
    Never. I have one original character that I've killed in a different way in 5 different stories.

    Then you've gotten good use of this character. That's awesome!
     
  8. 1Yodimus_Prime

    1Yodimus_Prime Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2004
    My philosophy is this: in fiction, no life is sacred.

    That should pretty much answer that.
    :p
     
  9. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    It should be noted however that the reason that the character was killed off (I think I know which one your talking about here), was because the actress asked Gene (who was still running things in Season One of TNG) to be let out of her contract. She later popped up again as the character's daughter.:p
     
  10. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Do you ever kill off any of your characters to provoke emotion in the readers, and do you think it was worth it?

    No, never in a SW fic. I did that once in my Diablo II fic and brought him back in the next chapter. I really don't think about the readers, just the story.

    Were the reader reactions what you expected?

    I killed off Padme at the end of my Jedi Padme trilogy and there was a reaction, yet it was what I expected as her death was so sad and Anakin hadn't caused it.

    Have you ever regretted doing it?

    Yes! :_|
    I want the characters in my stories to thrive, keep on living and not die at all. But the story comes first...

    Is it possible to have a dramatic or dark story without resorting to killing?

    I suppose it is, but character deaths (particularly major character deaths) create a new level of drama for the ones who have been left behind and the ones responsible.
    The best way to portray a character's turn to the dark side is to have them kill another character, even unintentionally.

    Have you ever run out of ideas for a character and resorted to killing them off?

    No. Some character have a certain amount of storytime and then it just goes, they've outlived their time as a character and perhaps it's better they go that way rather than becoming wallpaper.
    I kill characters off because I'm sick of writing them though. The best way is to put them on a starship and blow it up. Doesn't mean you have the lessen the story.

    What, in your mind, are the right and wrong reasons for eliminating a character?

    Wrong:
    For the reactions of readers
    Because you don't like them
    Because you're sick of writing them
    To liven up the story

    Right:
    For dramatic reasons, such as to add to a certain character's personality and give them new experiences. Anyone reading my TCA would see this, how Padme's death changed Anakin's character.
    To serve the purpose of the story, best example I can think of was the end of my ROTS AU fic. I wanted to save Padme, but the story was too dark to have a happy ending. Same reason why I couldn't save Qui-Gon.
    To create a particular effect in the story, if you want to really "get tragic" the best way is to kill off a main character. Or a lot of characters, like Order 66.
    To make a bad character good in the end. Remember Borsk Fey'la's death at the end of Star by Star? I forgave everthing I had hated about him after his death scene.

    One thing that I've found out: killing major good characters in a big way (like an entire sequence about their death and further ones about the after effects) all but puts steroids in your story. Chewbacca's death may have been one of the darkest moments of the EU, but that scene still touched me because of Han's reaction. "You left him"
     
  11. OracleUsr

    OracleUsr Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2007
    1. I kill of characters not so much for reader reaction as more of a story plot device. Case in point, when I wrote "Fall of a Legend," in my epic series, "A New Generation of Jedi Knights" it was to take the Academy in a new direction. I think it was worth it, if for no other reason than to see if I had the guts to pull it off.

    2. Reader reaction was tamer than I had expected. Quite a few were stunned at my action and said the death moved them to tears.

    3. This one in particular, no, I don't regret it.

    4. I think death is as much a part of a storyline as birth, so, no, you really shouldn't have a drama/dark story without someone close to the New Republic dying.

    5. Running out of ideas is a very bad reason to kill someone off.

    6. Not sure how to answer that.
     
  12. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Just ask JK Rowling, she doesn't want to kill off her characters (Cedric, Sirius, Dumbledore et. al.) and she admtis that she cries when she kills them off, but it has to be done.

    Inside the heart of every author is a shard of ice. - Grahame Greene
     
  13. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    I kind of use her in a jack-of-all-trades function in my story. The last time she died, she had spent the story as a disaffected Jedi Knight who came back when the Purges started. The entire duel was done off-screen and she got disemboweled, but that's water under the bridge. I think the massive shock would be if she showed up in one of my epics and didn't die at all. She's lasted for the entirety of a 50-page story once...
     
  14. Alexis_Wingstar

    Alexis_Wingstar Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2006
    Is her name Kenny? And do any of the other characters cuss out whoever kills her? i.e. South Park :p [face_whistling]
     
  15. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    LOL, no. :) Though, admirably, she did not show up in the fic where every character died.
     
  16. Viola_Telcontar

    Viola_Telcontar Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2004
    I'm not much of a writer myself, so I can't comment on the aspects of writing a character death, but I had an experience as a reader last November in a different fandom that I found a bit disturbing.

    The story I read was extremely well done in terms of character development, plot etc. and the author had a fine writing style as well. All in all, it was what I enjoy fan fiction for.

    In the last chapter, however, in a story that I thought to be about two people reluctantly falling in love with each other after many misunderstandings, the male lead character finally committed suicide.

    I was shocked.
    I was distressed.

    I was impressed.

    I reread the story, and there they were, all the warning signs I had not noticed before. The mood swings of the main character; the downwards spiral, when at first his love interest rejects him, confirming that he was "unlovable", and later his inability to trust her, believe her, when she claims to have a change of heart; his eagerness to destroy his own life in order to help her, what I mistook for a noble sacrifice upon first reading, but what was just another step towards self-destruction...

    I was wow-ed to no end.

    What disturbed me were the reactions of some readers.
    One of the reviews the writer got was along the lines of "I'm bipolar and read fanfiction to escape my miserable life. Now, thanks to you, I'm having another depression!" Ok, it was not said quite this drastic, but it was strongly implied.
    The author was handling the situation very well, confirming what I already suspected, namely that she had RL experience with depression and suicide.

    One sad result of the discussion that followed said review was that the writer felt obliged to write an alternative ending and attached a "WARNING: character death" tag at the beginning of the suicide chapter, which naturally destroyed much of the impact of the suicide.

    The whole thing was a rather strange experience.
     
  17. MariahJade2

    MariahJade2 Former Fan Fiction Archive Editor star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2001
    Thanks for all the great replies. :) Admittedly, I tend to read for escape and don't want to dwell too much on real life, so on the one hand, I can understand where that person was coming from, but things in life rarely come with warnings and you can't expect not to be suprised or even shocked. If you were always privy to what will happen, it would make for a very boring life.
     
  18. Onoto

    Onoto Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Something many people seem to be saying is that it's bad to kill off characters that have outlived their usefulness, or whom you've run out of ideas for. I think I disagree for the simple reason that a deadweight character is oftentimes worse than one that's just dead. As long as it doesn't affect the plotline, I have no problem with authors killing off characters that no longer contribute. Killing off a character is a simple way to remove them from the picture. It also has the added benefit of telling readers that death is not an imaginary concept, and you can achieve many of the good effects of character death (survivng character emotions, etc) without killing someone useful.

    Am I making sense? Essentially what I'm saying is that characters need to have a purpose. When the writer can't give them a purpose, they need to disappear. Death is one way to do that. Obviously you wouldn't kill off somebody in a romantic comedy, but it's a useful little trick in more dramatic stories.

    Let me clarify one point: when I say "have a purpose", that does not necessarily mean a purpose in the plot. Here's an example: let's say you were writing a story about Casablanca. The fat guy with the fez at the Blue Parrot was cool, but not strictly necessary for the plot. Sure he did a little, but nothing that couldn't have been done by an already existing character. What he did was add to the atmosphere. He was a neat character who had some funny lines and showed Casablanca's not-so-legal side. He added depth and texture to Casablanca, so he had a purpose. If you were to then write some more stories about Casablanca, he might start growing stale. You might have trouble coming up with funny lines for him to say or interesting ways to get him involved in the plot. If that's the case, he needs to disappear. You could simply shift the story to a part of Casablanca that does not include him. Or you could kill him. Maybe you could even use his death to launch a story about the Casablanca underworld.

    Okay, ramble done.;)
     
  19. boady22

    boady22 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2003

    Killing off characters:

    What does it accomplish?
    II think it allows other charaters to grow. Everyone here knows at least one person who has died, and from that we all have learned something and grown a little bit from it. Its a necessity. It also allows the younger generation to move into the spot light. Yoda himself lived some 900 years, but in the end not even he could escape death. We all wish Luke and Han could live forever, but it's simply not plausable.

    Think about it, how many times can one or five people go up against countless foes and come away clean? Laws of averages has to catch up with them sometime.


    Do you ever kill off any of your characters to provoke emotion in the readers, and do you think it was worth it?
    Of course. Why else kill them off?



    Were the reader reactions what you expected?
    Some were, some were not. Those that were not, I take as failure on my writing ability though, not just beacuse I killed a charater off. The idea is solid. It is a part of every SW movie plot. In each saga a major charater dies. Someone always says may the force be with you and someone always says I have a bad feeling about this Every movie. I think GW got the reactions he was looking for though.


    Have you ever regretted doing it?
    nope

    Is it possible to have a dramatic or dark story without resorting to killing?
    No. Name something darker than death? Any story that is to be dark and does not have death in it or at least implied, would not work. It would be like someone trying to take over the world using fuzzy little bunnies and puppies as their weapons. Yeah the part about taking over the world would be tragic and dark and all, but whats there to fear if death isn't a possibility?


    Have you ever run out of ideas for a character and resorted to killing them off?
    No not yet, but I'm sure the day will come.........


     
  20. Viola_Telcontar

    Viola_Telcontar Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Yeah, I do understand where that lady was coming from as well, but the entire situation was really an eye opener for me. It shows just what a negative impact a character death can have on a reader.

    I agree with you that knowing everything in advance would make a boring life, and it makes boring stories imo.

    The whole thing happened at a time when I was still trying my luck as a writer, so it naturally made me nervous.

    I still think that a writer should kill off any character when she feels the plot demands it, and I had always assumed that everyone who reads fanfiction would share this sentiment.
    Oh well... it was not the first and last time that the fan fic community surprised me.

    I'm still really opposed to warnings.

    I'm curious. How many of you have ever warned their readers that a death was coming?
    I know some fandoms where it's common practice, but I have never seen it here (though I haven't been here since december because of a family emergency - a lot can happen in 6 month, I'm very much behind).
     
  21. Herman Snerd

    Herman Snerd Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 1999
    I don't know about warning for a death, but I know I've issued "tissue warnings" for an upcoming post and I know others have as well.
     
  22. Luton_Plunder

    Luton_Plunder Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2006

    I'm with you on this point, Onoto - killing a character because they have run their course is actually quite a sensible thing to do. There are other ways of doing it, of course - maybe they could announce they're going on vacation? :p - but I think where I agree strongly on this is in serial fics. You have characters that existed for a specific purpose early and then in later stories aren't so signficant any more. You could just ignore them, but everyone will wonder what happened to that guy or girl. Kill them, and at least they're in no danger of ever coming back ;)

    As for what Viola_Telcontar said, that's a tragic story. A well-handled, moving death of a character that is dismissed as the wrong decision by a group of readers that wanted a rosy love story, huh. It's not unusual for that to happen, I don't think. Especially in fanfiction, or even Extended Universe material. Just look at the outrage that surrounded Chewie's death in Vector Prime. It served a great purpose in the course of the novels - to demonstrate that the old invincible core characters are now potentially on the chopping block. Good move, IMO. Made the NJO books a bit different, quite exciting and tense. But still, the backlash against Chewie's death was savage and I think alot of people wrote off the NJO before it had even begun. I think a similar thing happened recently in whatever series followed the NJO, but for fear of breaking spoiler rules I'll keep quiet on that one ;)

    Point being - killing characters will upset the fandom that likes those characters. But as long as it's done for a damn good reason on the part of the author, I think they can safely ignore the criticism of people who simply don't want to have to put up with reading a story devoid of their pet favourites.
     
  23. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Yes, I frequently have tissue warnings. One thing that I also do to warn people of an extremely freaky post is to mention someone who made it reader-friendly. For example, if I had a scene about a woman, after having been beaten to within an inch of her life, appearing to beg for death and I ran the idea past a mod, I'll say "Thanks to ______________ for making sure that the somewhat intense nature of this post doesn't violate TOS."
     
  24. Luton_Plunder

    Luton_Plunder Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Haha, good way of doing it Ish.

    If the post bears the seal of one of the mods, you know you're in for a great update :p
     
  25. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    The thing is you don't really wanna ruin the surprise, do you Ish?

    I have two BIG characters marked for death in fics I have yet to write, one killed in a moment of defeat and another in a moment of victory. I won't say who, but the intended effect is to really rock the story.

    Imagine what SW would have been like if the characters who died didn't? Obi was meant to live in ANH, but it was Marcia Lucas who convinced GL to kill him off as for the rest of the film he would be a dead weight.
     
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