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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Killing off characters: What does it accomplish?

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by MariahJade2, Aug 14, 2007.

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  1. Alexis_Wingstar

    Alexis_Wingstar Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2006
    The only deaths I agree with you about that were not necessary is Obi-Wan's and Mara's. I don't buy into the "the mentor must die so the hero can grow up" theme, so I feel Obi-Wan's death was hallow. I just can't see Jacen beating Mara in a lightsaber duel (I can't see Jacen turning Sith, for that matter). Biggs just wasn't that important a character to keep around; Sidious HAD to die to complete the saga; it was established that Obi-Wan, not Qui-Gon was Anakin Skywalker's master and that would not have happened if Qui-Gon had survived; Yoda was ready to join the force... it was his time; Chewie died a hero's death... though I sorely miss him... and how they handled the emotional aftermath was very well done; Anakin Solo's death, though shocking, was understandable... death happens in war, and it doesn't spare someone just because they are young and well loved; as far as Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, sadly, they had to die to give Luke the impetus to leave and follow his destiny.
     
  2. madman007

    madman007 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2007

    Four months ago I wouldn't have known how to answer this question. Then I started to read possible spoilers that one of my all time (since 91) favorite SW characters dies. Since Heir, I used to flip through scenes that involved Mara Jade. I loved her attitude, loved the way she talked, and she brought in a breath of fresh air to the series. During the entire NJO series, she was not written well, if at all, save for major scenes like the birth of Ben. I was afraid they'd kill her off then with the Vong poison. Alas, they did not.

    Then comes Sacrifice.

    I can say with honesty that no death in fiction has affected me more than this one. How so unfair it was to write the best Mara in the past several series...and then kill her off. I agree with most here that it was a death that was pointless. The Sith-in-training didn't defeat her in a lightsaber fight, which he wouldn't have won anyway. No, he stabbed her with a poison dart, after the Mara in Sacrifice falls for a cheap Force image of her son. To paraphrase another SW quote, this isn't the Mara we were looking for.

    This has gotten my creative juices flowing so much that I have written one and am writing a current series based on her death. One is an answer to the Mara: Fighting Spirit Challenge called Why Did It Have To Be Her? and the other is a current series where Mara's spirit is sent to a woman on Earth who was in a coma, called Introducing Mary Jane Skyler.

    What's been said about the demise of Mara has already been said. This was nothing but a marketing ploy by DR so they can have their own rehash of ROTS. Are there no more original stories that the authors of profic can write? Their marketing ploy may be backfiring. I'm not buying another book from the current series. I shall consider the current profic series with an added title: Infinities!

    I take the stand on my characters from one of my own original story's character, Kim Spencer; modern day sorceress. Kill only when necessary.


     
  3. DarthJainaSolo

    DarthJainaSolo Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Do you ever kill off any of your characters to provoke emotion in the readers, and do you think it was worth it?

    A good story should always provoke emotion in readers. Ultimately, that's the reason I write anything. Killing off a character that doesn't do this somewhere along the way would be my definition of a pointless death.

    Were the reader reactions what you expected?

    About the same as I expected.

    Have you ever regretted doing it?

    No. To me, death is risky, but the payoff is worth it if it works out. In my fics, people will die, sometimes for no good reason. What point could Cedric Diggory's death ever have?

    Is it possible to have a dramatic or dark story without resorting to killing?

    Not in this genre, I don't think. All of the danger in Star Wars goes back to death and the fear of it. Why was the Empire evil? They killed innocent people. What makes any villain evil? Has there ever been a villain in Star Wars who was not a murderer? Without death in your story, there is no tension - the reader knows that the heroes will survive.

    In other genres, there definitely could be a dark story without any death. Depression, poverty, rape, drug abuse, etc... are all very dark subjects - and stories about them don't necessarily have death. But I don't think any of those would usually work in a Star Wars work (though there are always exceptions).

    That's not to say there is no good story without death. Merely that I wouldn't call those stories "dark."

    Have you ever run out of ideas for a character and resorted to killing them off?

    I think that's where having a general idea of your story comes in, because that's a bad reason to kill off a character. Making a character disappear from the spotlight, so that he or she can reappear when you have need, would probably be a better plan. If you have no plans for a certain character or can't think of use for him, then that should probably be a minor character.

    What, in your mind, are the right and wrong reasons for eliminating a character?

    Killing a character off for any other reason than to tell the story you want to tell is the wrong reason. That's a pretty all-inclusive statement. People are afraid of death. I've noticed, especially in profic, that when a hero is killed off there is major backlash.

    Were the deaths in Vector Prime, Star By Star, and Sacrifice done for the right reasons? It would be unrealistic to think that the heroes should never be killed. In a series where the characters constantly go on dangerous missions, are hunted by assassins, and where war is everywhere - people will die. Sometimes kids. Sometimes for "no good reason." I think the aforementioned deaths work within the story that is being told.

    That doesn't mean its easy. Emotionally, It's far easier to keep a character alive than to kill one, especially when that death really is going to advance the story. I know that sounds weird, but it's true. The death of a character neither the writer nor the readers care about ultimately will do nothing emotion-wise.

    What can it accomplish?

    A few things.

    Tension. This has to be at the center of any good story. If your readers feel comfortable about the survival of a certain character when they are in a life-threatening situation, there's no tension. I once read a short story called "A Small, Good Thing" by Raymond Carver. In the beginning of the story an 8-year-old boy gets hit by a car. He doesn't immediately die, so the reader spends most of the story wondering if and when it was going to happen as his parents wait to find out. That's life/death tension. If a writer has a character in a life-threatening situation but, based on what has happened in the story, the reader isn't scared, then there's no tension served in that scene.

    The effects on characters. Death can change characters - suddenly, they become less innocent. It makes them grow up. Killing off a character can be a grea
     
  4. JadeSolo

    JadeSolo Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    What death, either pro or fan fic had the most impact on you as a reader or writer.

    Mara and Chewie. Mara was the reason I kept on reading EU novels - I'd flip through books just to see if she was in them. Chewie was Chewie - it's impossible to think of Star Wars without the big furball.

    Both of those deaths really got to me because I'd known the characters so well, so to speak. You invest a lot of time in watching the characters grow - watching the movies, reading the novels and comics, reading fanfics, writing your own stories. You become very attached to them, and they die, and you don't even see it coming. That last bit is the worst.

    When you write a character's death, I think the element of surprise doesn't hit you as hard because you know and accept that there's a reason for the death. When someone else is holding the strings, you have a difficult time. Sometimes I find it hard watching the films because I know what happens to Chewie 25 years after we first see him in Mos Eisley. He dies the way he should die, as a hero protecting Han's family, but at the same time his death means that no one is safe.

    Same thing with Mara. In this situation, it's even harder to keep reading the novels because my original reason for reading them is now dead and gone. As a fanfic writer, you always have the AU option, but in the back of your mind still sticks the thought that this character is gone. Sucks even more when you don't agree with how she died.

    Well, that was a nice dark thought. :p

    On the upside, at the very least Chewie's death did something for Star Wars storytelling. It's like Wash's death in "Serenity" - someone bites the big one, and the audience is no longer guaranteed a completely happy ending. You start thinking that your other favorites might die - Han, Leia, Luke, Lando - and it really heightens the tension. As someone who loves to be entertained, I think it's a brilliant storytelling tactic, so long as the death really means something. Killing a beloved character to create tension doesn't work if the audience is too busy booing and throwing popcorn at the screen.
     
  5. SWfan1

    SWfan1 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Killing characters is a great way to push another character to the darkside. Like if Luke lost Mara/Ben or Leia lost Han. That character motivated by revenge would be likely to fall to darkness.
     
  6. 1Yodimus_Prime

    1Yodimus_Prime Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Such is the naivete of Sith Lords, that in their preoccupation with eternal life, they have elevated death to such a high pedestal that they cannot concieve of a more powerful weapon against their enemies. Therein lies their greatest weakness.
    In other words, I think you underestimate the Jedi, both Old and New.

    What if Mara died because her ship malfunctioned, and an astroid collided with it? What if Han died because he got sick and couldn't be cured, or what if he had a massive siezure and died instantly at breakfast one morning, minutes before going on an extremely dangerous mission? Who would Luke and Leia take revenge on then? I don't mean to sound harsh, but death is an important event and should not be taken lightly (outside of comedy, that is). Even though these characters aren't real, we have to treat them as though they are, or nobody will care. We have a responsibility as storytellers.

    One of those responsibilities is this: Death must never be a contrivance. Never never never. And stories that treat death as such are not good stories. Death is not a literary tool; death is death.
    That is your lesson for today.

     
  7. correllian_ale

    correllian_ale Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2005
    As much as I hate to disagree with Yodimus, especially seeing as he's in such a serious mood, I will.

    I create a cast of characters, and I determine one will die. This will happen because it's the way the story has to go. It's the way I build upon the characters around him/her, and becuase it's the effect that only death can accomplish; in that will help them (some if not all) grow or develop as the story needs, and as they need.

    Are you saying that this is wrong?
     
  8. LadyLunas

    LadyLunas Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2005
    In my entire time writing, both fanfic and original, I have killed very few characters, but that's because it usually hasn't been necessary.

    In my original novels, the people I tend to kill are villains. It's only been in my latest novel that I killed a major character, for reasons that have everything to do with the plot and further character development. (On the offside, I think it's a bit interesting that people tend to have little-to-no problem killing the bad guys, but have issues with the heroes.)

    In fanfic, both stories in which I have killed people, it's the point of the story. I tend to write AUs, and in my major fandom (PotC), a story I just wrote and posted went along the lines of "What if Will had been sacrificed before Jack and Elizabeth were dropped off at the island?" The other story (an as-yet-unposted SW vignette), it's the same premise, a character piece focusing on someone's death.

    It's how the story itself twists and turns to fit with the developments you as the author have put into it. What do the characters do now? How is the plot itself affected? What would logically happen next? All questions that need a serious answer. That's why I write death scenes- to answer those questions.

    There are just times and stories when characters have to die. It's the way the plot works, the way the story has to go, no matter how the audience and the writer feel about it. When it comes down to it, the author has to be true to the characters and story, not what they wish could happen. If that means killing off a character, so be it.
     
  9. BrentusofGath

    BrentusofGath Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2005

    Such delicious logic from one so short, Yodimus. :p

    I agree completely. And in response to what correllian ale posted, IMHO death isn't something you set out with the intention of doing to a character - any character. You can motivate your other characters without the necessity of doing so over the death of another. If the story leads you to a death in a natural flow, then that is where you should follow.

    A story flows from itself; we are merely there to put it down on paper or screen and distribute it to the masses. That's just my opinion - I'm not telling you that's what you have to do, just my opinion on the subject of death. On my last big story, I set about one of the last chapters with the intention of keeping a character alive... well, that's not the way it worked out. I kicked and I screamed, but the story kept right on course - that's how, IMHO, you know when it's time to kill a character... when you don't want to do it!
     
  10. padawanlost

    padawanlost Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2006
    okay, here's my take on this. I've got a pretty big body count behind me, and I thought some of you out there might be interested to see just what goes through the mind of a girl who kills Luke Skywalker in her first major fic [face_thinking]

    Do you ever kill off any of your characters to provoke emotion in the readers, and do you think it was worth it?

    I've never killed to provoke the audience. Some of my characters have killed to provoke other characters- in that instance it was totally worth it. I don't think anyone wants to see all the characters die, if they are actually enjoying the story. Of course sometimes that is the story- everybody dies- and you have to tell it, but I prefer to let death be the profound experience it is in real life, in fanfic.

    Were the reader reactions what you expected?

    People were very shocked when Jacen killed Luke in "Without You, I'm Nothing," as the main focus of the story was on Jaina and Jag. A lot of them were pretty upset, but as the story continued, it became a defining moment for Jacen, Jaina, and Ben.

    Have you ever regretted doing it?

    Not yet, but one character escaped the death I had planned for her, and continued on for several months before I realized that I should have let her die when I had planned, and that the story had nowhere else to go. That was much more upsetting than actually killing her would have been.

    Is it possible to have a dramatic or dark story without resorting to killing?

    I think so, though it is rare to find. Even if its just the bad guy, someone usually doesn't make it through. That said, I don't think we "resort to killing." Characters die in stories, because people die in real life. Its the ultimate consequence, and we are dealing with some heavy issues inside the fluff of our space opera.

    Have you ever run out of ideas for a character and resorted to killing them off?

    No, when I run out of ideas, I take a break from that story or character. Anyone that dies in my stories, has been dead since I started outlining, inless I'm wavering between death and something worse- almost dying and becoming a human marshmallow, or having your brain put into a droid come to mind ;)

    What, in your mind, are the right and wrong reasons for eliminating a character?

    If other characters are going to grow, or be forced to confront something in their lives because of the death, it is worth it. When someone dies just because it will be shocking, or to get rid of them, that's lazy.

    The drama shouldn't be in the death, but what happens afterwards, and in the reasons behind it.
     
  11. lazykbys_left

    lazykbys_left Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2005
    That's odd, I was positive I'd posted in this thread . . .


    Do you ever kill off any of your characters to provoke emotion in the readers, and do you think it was worth it? Were the reader reactions what you expected? Have you ever regretted doing it?

    No to the first question and not applicable to the rest. I hardly ever think about the readers when I write.


    Is it possible to have a dramatic or dark story without resorting to killing?

    Yes, of course. Why is this question even required?


    Have you ever run out of ideas for a character and resorted to killing them off?

    I never run out of ideas for characters because the ideas are the characters. When an idea has been used, I move on to the next character.


    What, in your mind, are the right and wrong reasons for eliminating a character?

    Right: because you want to send your other characters on an angst-fest. Because you're getting sick of writing that character. Because that character is becoming a distraction from the story's theme. Because you want to. Because you're starting to wonder if your readers are actually reading. Because someone killed your favorite character and you want to get back at them. Because you're high on cough medicine. Because you want to. Because your favorite author wrote an amazing death scene. Because it's raining outside. Because you tossed a coin and it came up tails. Because your goldfish died. Because you had a lousy day and tomorrow won't be any better. Because you want to.

    Wrong: none.


    In response to Yodimus: Death is death. Death doesn't mean anything. Yet we want it to. So in stories, death has meaning. Death is death.

    - lazy
     
  12. SWfan1

    SWfan1 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Even in cases where the death is natural it can still have a very profound effect on the other characters. A loss of a close spouse or loved one can drive people into extreme bouts of anger or depression, sometimes even changing their outlook on life. In cases where the force is involved even natural death can create emotions to push a person to the darkside. That's exactly what made Anakin fall trying to save Padme.

    As for that character trying to get revenge incase the loved one was killed by someone, revenge in itself is the dark side.

    Both can be used to make a character dark.
     
  13. correllian_ale

    correllian_ale Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Agreed. The story I'm currently working on, I decided in the course of writing that the most poignant way to resolve the personal issues among characters, and for the story to reach a true resolution, is for one particular charcter to die.

    Mind you, it took me a long while to face this fact, and I even tried rationalizing with myself how it should be any character but. In the end though, I had to look at the page and realize, no matter how much I've loved the character, and how unfair it truly is; it was the only way I could feel comfortable with the progression of the other characters, and of the story itself. I intended to kill no one at onset, but that's how the story developed, and that's the hand I've dealt those players.



     
  14. DarthJainaSolo

    DarthJainaSolo Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2007
    I agree completely. The reasons a character is killed off doesn't matter, it's how the death drives the plot, characters, motivation, setting...all of the elements of a good story. Not everyone is going to like that you killed off a main character - but if you felt compelled to write, there are people who will want to read.

    I don't think there's such a thing as a wrong reason for killing a character. But if you do it you have a difficult road ahead of you, but one that can also be very rewarding.

    Let's call it what it is: death is a plot point. A very serious plot point, yes, but that's what it all comes back to. While there is such a thing as a bad plot, bad execution is far more likely. Good execution, believe it or not, can make up for a bad plot - but a good plot is nothing without the execution behind it. I have read several stories (fanfic and profic)that I thought sounded interesting, but the stories weren't told well for whatever reason. The same, ultimately, goes with death. If you are to kill a character, you better be prepared for what comes next. Things were not normal after Chewbacca, Anakin, and Mara. Things changed and people changed.

    When you kill a character, the story isn't that character's story, but the story of close to him or her. When Anakin died, his death wasn't his own story - but a story of his parents, his brother, and his sister. Mara's death was about Luke and Ben. Chewbacca's was about Han. The story's not in the death, but in the aftermath.

    (Of course, there are exceptions, especially if the death occurs at the end of a story.)
     
  15. 1Yodimus_Prime

    1Yodimus_Prime Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2004
    I shall counter this well-thought-out and considered rebuttal like so:
    *sticks fingers in ears*
    LA LA LA NOT LISTENING I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA!
    *removes fingers from ears*

    What can I say, serious moods are transient things for me.
    Kind of like life, really.


    Although I will note that I never said deciding beforehand that a character should die is a bad thing per se, nor that going to the dark side as a reponse to death was specifically a bad thing either. Only that using death the way you might use the phrase, "and then came Zeus from out of the clouds," when you can't think of anything better, is most definitely a bad thing. Or at least that's what I was trying to say, but slightly angrier and more unnecessarily specific.

    SWFan, I'm glad you said that death has a 'profound effect' in your response. That's what I was looking for. In the end, I honestly don't mind where it takes a character ? lots of people have fallen into darkness because of death ? only that it's respected, and not treated as a literary trinket. Although I used your post as an example (perhaps wrongly), I can see that you in fact do not agree with the kind of thinking I was taking issue with.
     
  16. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    I agree, you just can't kill characters off in a story just for the sake of it, which has been what this thread was about anyway.

    And sometimes it's not just about how characters respond to death, a character death can sometimes form the centre of a story. I'm currently indulging in detective fiction which, as a matter of the form it is, requires character death, particularly murder. Though to not evoke too much sympathy from the reader, I try and have the character "on-screen" as little as possible, even having him/her killed before the story takes place.
    And I never show a death actually happening, either.
     
  17. mrjop2

    mrjop2 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Hey, if it's Jacen Solo, feel free to kill him any way you want. LOL! :D
     
  18. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Go for the Darwin award if you like :p
     
  19. Luton_Plunder

    Luton_Plunder Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2006
    *Is loving all the free time I have at work today*

    I think I'm a bit at odds with everyone who disagrees with the deaths of characters. It's my humble yet extremely pious opinion that people get way too connected to keeping their most beloved characters around, and will go to lengths to avoid killing them. When that happens, my skeptical raised eyebrow does it's thang.

    A page or so back I linked to Anne Fraser's blog, where she espoused that killing off your main characters is only going to hurt you because people grow attached to them and wont read your stories anymore. To my mind, if you're conscious of that fact then you're betraying your story. By her logic, Shakespeare was a fool for killing Hamlet/Romeo/Juliet/Everyone in king lear. If he'd kept them alive people would have payed to see the myriad of sequels (King Lear 2 - THE UNDEADENING) he could have written.

    I'm not saying that all main characters should die all the time. I'm simply saying that by consciously keeping them alive at all costs, you are letting yourself be ruled by the death of that character just as much as killing them outright. When you aren't willing to kill a character and the plot demands that it happen, that's when contrivances creep in. They might be easier to swallow than the death of a main character, but they leave a much more awful taste in your mouth. If you'll indulge me in a metaphor for a moment :p

    I much prefer it when authors are willing to let their characters go. Ultimately, keeping them around is alot lazier than perhaps biting the bullet (as it were), killing them and then coming up with a whole new character for the next story.


    And damn, haven't even had time to touch on the old 'create an ancillary character and kill them, leaving the popular characters to realise danger but still live happily ever after' trick. I'll come back a bit later to talk about Red Shirts :p
     
  20. The_Face

    The_Face Ex-Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Great, now it physically pains me that this is not a reality. You showed me a world of dreams, Futon, and reality just isn't the same any more. :(;)

    Well said!
     
  21. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    For some reason I am recalling Aristotle's Poetics, which said basically we watch plays (and watch movies, and read fan fiction etc) so we could have a good laugh, have a good cry at the expense of the characters and then go back to the real world where things are a bit fairer.

    I dunno about you guys, but emotion is something that I want from my readers when I kill off a main character. It means that I have done my job as a writer. Which is probably why we put so much effort into making a main character death worthy of that character.

    Imagine if Mace Windu was shot in the back after saying one line in TPM and we never saw him again. We would be like "Meh? So what? Who cares?" And we would have no idea what a good character he could have been because he was killed off without much ceremony. Contrast it with his actual death scene, where we have a number of fans who insist he is still alive.

    And sometimes, just sometimes, I will forgive a character if they die a noble death. Like Borsk Fey'lya in Star by Star. Anyone heard of Admiral Daala? If she had died in Darksaber, she would no doubt have a legion of fans who forgave her for a good death, and I would be one of them.
     
  22. SithGirl132

    SithGirl132 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Do you ever kill off any of your characters to provoke emotion in the readers, and do you think it was worth it?

    Kind of. However, the plot bunny forced the character to ressurect and throw the readers for a loop. However, if this particular character had stayed dead, it would have been more worth it.

    Were the reader reactions what you expected?

    Yes. Sad and surprised people. Though I am a little nervous about what the reader replies will be like in a current story, since two major characters die and I cried when writing it...

    Have you ever regretted doing it?

    Kind of... in one of my more recent stories, I realised that by the end I had killed off both of my main characters. I was really sad to see that happen, and I did almost cry as I wrote one of the deaths.

    Is it possible to have a dramatic or dark story without resorting to killing?

    I do believe so. You can do a lot of angst through a dramatic monologue format, and drama can be done without death. It depends on how the death was used. Also, introspection and emotion (look at Romanticism, Gothic literature, and TS Eliot's poetry) shows a lot of drama/darkness without necessarily needing too much death.

    Have you ever run out of ideas for a character and resorted to killing them off?

    Yes, actually... it was probably unwise now that I look back at it and see that that just led the plot bunny to go somewhere that I didn't expect it to go... But I really don't like to do that.

    What, in your mind, are the right and wrong reasons for eliminating a character? What does it accomplish?

    To me the largest wrong reason is to get rid of an unneccessary or unwanted character. That to me seems rather unneeded. Or to make the death toll of something go higher *coughcoughHamletcoughcough*

    The best reason I had for killing a main character in a recent fic was in karmic justice almost- this character realises how much harm the Dark Side has done and commits suicide as a result. That was actually not what I had originally planned, but that was what happened. I felt that redeeming this character would have seemed too fair and nice, and I wanted a real sense of justice, since that was a theme I had been using throughout this fic.

    Another character died in self-sacrifice similar to what happened to Ben Kenobi. I felt that in that moment, it was necessary for that to happen to make the story end and spur the rest of my characters into action to defeat the main antagonist. It was probably the hardest death to write that I have ever come up with, but when I re-read the scene, it seemed like it was the correct dramatic device to make the story come to an end. Also, if everyone had been alive and well at the end, it would have seemed too nice and very out-of-character for the way the story was going.

    I never have subscribed to the rule that no major character is allowed to die. I haven't yet killed Leia or Luke in any of my fics, but considering the way things are going, it's probably only a matter of time. Other than that, I've probably killed almost anyone else you can think of. Killing major characters does add realism and dispels the notion of immortality that a lot of profic seems to be working on. However, killing Jaina has always been hard for me. Even when she ends up as a Sith, and I know that when Leia or Luke finally have to die in a fic, then I will cry for a long time. Or even Vergere, for that matter!

    The effect of grief is an effective dramatic device, and to do that, someone has to die. A recent fic that has been much alluded to in my post starts after Anakin's death in Star By Star, and his death is really the driving force behind what eventually happens to Jaina and Jacen. It wasn't exactly easy to let him die like in profic, but I needed for that to happen to let the plot unfold.

    For the most part, I do try to plan out deaths in advance so they will be effective devices to keep the plot moving and not just more carnage. But when they happen unexpectedly, it's harder since I have to
     
  23. Lilith Demodae

    Lilith Demodae Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 1999
    Killing a character just to get a reaction or remove a no longer necessary character is the first no-no my writing teacher taught us about. Really it's just plain lazy.

    There have been several times I've killed off characters, however. In point of fact, I started a challenge that was all about killing off characters. I'm fairly certain it wasn't the first Jedi Purge thread out there, but it seemed to get plenty of responses.

    Not that I do it on a regular basis. I'm no shakespearean tragedy writer with a need stack the fallen like cordwood. But death has it's place, in fiction as in life. I was writing one story and no matter how I tried to re-write the end, the heroine refused to survive the story (i tried about a dozen times but finally gave up). Let me tell you, it was quite vexxing. But in order for her to be who she was, she had to sacrifice herself to save others. I couldn't keep her alive without gratuitous use of Deus ex, or changing her characterization, which I wasn't willing to do, either.

    However, I have to say, that I respect writers who are willing to take the heat from readers and kill off important characters, provided there's a character- or plot-driven reason for it. On the flip-side, I really truly hate it when writers kill off a character then later say, 'whoops, sorry, not dead after all', again unless there's a really, really good reason why they turn out to still be alive after all.

     
  24. The_Face

    The_Face Ex-Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 2003
    I don't remember what (if anything) I said about it in my earlier post(s), but I've seen several mention Because a character is no longer necessary as a poor reason to kill someone off. Just throwing this out here, because I'm curious to see what people think, and maybe a little bit to play devil's advocate, but:

    If not kill them, what do you do with a character who has outlived (lol @ loaded word) his/her/its usefulness?

    Yoda in RotJ comes to mind. What purpose did Yoda's death serve? Well, it was to get Luke to stand on his own two feet and move on without (living) mentors to fall back on. Could you not argue that, or something similar, for most no-longer-necessary characters? That their death allows the other characters' stories to progress?

    Or, once you've written a character into the story that may only serve an important role in Act I, are you stuck with them for the next 2 to 107 acts until you can find some other way to write them out?


    I think the danger of killing off characters just for passing their expiration date is that you are not treating death with the proper respect. Which I believe Yod was warning against earlier. If you do decide to kill Skippy the Superfluous Smuggler, it should (a) fit in with the tone / themes you're developing, and (b) be handled with the proper weight.

    Who knows? Dying might turn out to be the most impactful thing Skippy could do in the story at that point.


    Just saying.
     
  25. Lilith Demodae

    Lilith Demodae Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 1999
    In that case, there was a point to Yoda's death other than just to write him out of the story.

    I think what most people are objecting to is just killing someone off so you (the writer) don't have them in the way any more, not as a goad to get some other character to move on or stand on their own two feet.

    For example:
    Say you've got a main and three sidekicks. Part way through the story you decide that one of the sidekicks is just a yes-man, or for whatever other reason is totally unnecessary to the story. If going back and writing him out isn't an option, killing him just so you don't have to deal with him is still sort of the lazy way out. There are other ways to get rid of unnecessary characters than death.


    Hopefully that made sense.
     
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