Senate Kink discussion

I'd urge you to look at some of the data regarding factors that can influence implicit bias. Irene Blair has a nice structured review on the topic, though it's a couple years old now (Blair I. The Malleability of Automatic Stereotypes and Prejudice. Personality and Social Psychology Review 2002; 6(3):242-261). I think it's all good to know about, but some of pertinent points for this discussion include a study whose results imply that merely imaging people in stereotypic roles yields testable and significantly increased automatic bias as measured on implicit association testing. Another body of work finds that resultant bias is more pronounced when subjects are asked to focus on the particular identifier/category in question.

It is hard for me to simultaneously believe that imaging a woman in stereotyped role will lead to greater association between women and those stereotypes, but that regularly engaging in several hours worth of positively reinforced role-playing complete with physical activity dialogue, and other participants would have a completely null effect. Especially when the point of all this play acting would be to highlight gender, which is something we would expect to amplify any effect on implicit bias, not diminish it. This would probably be the most counter-intuitive application of the aforementioned data of any I can imagine.

On the other hand, you're asking for data that probably can't and won't exist. Even around the idea of non-conventional sex practices, there is probably too much social stigma to have enough people come forward and do testing like this. Let alone, happily, the degree of stigma that still exists around public embrace of bigotry. Designing this experiment in a way that was functional (eg you'd get enough enrollment/completion for meaningful results) would be a real challenge. But it also astounds me that this is the line you are drawing in the sand. No one is asking that anything be banned. This is a discussion about how you feel about these activities. You're position is that you will unreservedly offer a positive endorsement of activities specifically centered on re-enacting and promoting bigotry until and unless you have published scientific data affirming its real world harm? That's quite a high standard, and not one we use in many other cases. Usually, people are willing to accept this sort of proximate data as a rational basis for concern.

I also just fundamentally don't understand what's even being defended here. Rights are not at stake for the practitioners. No one is stopping these things from happening. Literally the worst consequence is a remark that it's probably not a great idea to do. One the other side of this debate is the right of under-represented social groups (females, minorities) to have a life free of discrimination. In weighing those two, why or how did the popularity of someone's sexual preferences take on more moral urgency?

 

I highly approve of all the Brit-kink going on with you.

 

Sometimes it seems like 90% of modern kinks all arose from Victorian England...

 

1)No, the worst consequence isn't a remark, is a wocky wall of text on why your sex life is negatively affecting the rights of underrepresented minorities.

2) The idea that my sex life is going to take away the rights of women and minorities is the stupidest thing you've ever posted.

 

But that explains why the aliens won't talk to us.
They are afraid that my fantasies will take away their rights.

 

Take the sexual element out of it.

What if someone in the privacy of their own home just derived immense recreational but non-sexusl enjoyment from the idea of dressing as a Klu Klux Klan member and role playing cross-burnings? How about if they just enjoy pretending women are subhuman, natural slaves? Nazi officers executing people at a concentration camp? If they only did it with “consensual” fellow LARPers would you characterize it as positive?

Would you criticize people who felt that these sorts of games were potentially toxic? Would you encourage others to experiment with taking on the role of a bigot in an unambiguously positive portrayal? Would you find such games or fantasies at all odd? Would you have any reservation about them serving on a jury in a death penalty case against one of the target groups of their fictional games?

 

wocky, jesus christ... give it a rest.

 

Only you would come in here and say that.

 

This is a discussion thread. We’re discussing the impact of these practices and how they relate to our judgments about other activities.

If the topic makes you uncomfortable there are plenty of other threads on this forum with different topics, or plenty of other forums where a topic like this might be broached only in terms of people sharing their sexual fantasies. You are welcome to either or both options.

ShaneP: is it your argument that either orgasm or ejaculation renders an otherwise objectionable activity a good one?

 

wocky, are you also against pretend play, for kids?

 

Could someone shame furries as well?
All furries are (auto)zoophiles. No exemptions.

 

I do think wocky's posts have provoked irrational knee jerk responses that consist of irrational defenses against non-existent threats itt and what seem like refusals to examine whether or not some of these activities can be bad or harmful.

I think wocky has made this discussion a lot more interesting.

 

"No, as the thread is specifically about this. Go and make your own thread."

Is what I was going to post. However, the OP isn't explicitly about sexual kinks, even if I think that was the intention. I think that wocky's attempt to derail the thread has failed, as annoying as his posts are.

FWIW, @Jabba-wocky your inability to separate private consensual acts to overtly non-consensual public acts is quite disturbing, and says more about you than anything.

 

Where the explicit objective of them is to positively depict bigotry? Don’t you?

Are you hustling to sign your kids up for pretend re-enactments of this kind of stuff? Because I am aware of multiple schools and other scenarios where asking children to “play” slavery has been met—appropriately, I think—with unhappiness. Did you think it was a good idea when the Governor of Virginia’s wife told black children on a tour to imagine picking fields of cotton around the Governor’s mansion?

Diggy: The request was a counterfactual tool of analysis. In considering whether any of these practices are good or bad, we should ask whether sexual activities deserve any special exculpating that other forms of recreation do not. If so, what is the basis for that exception?

 

If you wish to reply to my post, actually ****ing read it, or don't bother.

 

Please share what you feel I didn’t respond to it, because I honestly don’t see it. You had an accusation I’ve addressed multiple times and a suggestion that counterfactuals aren’t a legitimate way to ask questions and explore an idea. I addressed the latter at length because it was new.

 

Get on your knees.

 

?

 

No, I'm not going to take the sexual element out of it. You're attempting to change what we're discussing into something else to suit the needs of the point you're trying to make, and I will not help you do that. You and I both know damn well how bad your point looks, which is why you're going this route.

 

So what exactly makes that scenario bad, but the exact same scenario good if you call it “race play” and have someone sexually gratified at the end?

In my view the objectionable parts are still the same. I’m trying hard to understand if you all see this differently.

 

I didn't say any scenario was bad. I just said I'm not helping you change what we're discussing.

 

My last post demonstrated its exact relevance to what we are discussing. If you are defending all these practices as good is your position that:

A) sexual activity necessarily sanctions all activities as good

Or B) Do you find simulated redemptive bigotry good all on its own?

Asking why you support what you do is entirely on topic.

 

All sexual activity between consenting people is neither good nor bad. Sexual activity that isn't consensual is bad. That's my position.

 

Are there any activities on Earth which are bad?

If they were performed during consensual sex would those same activities become neutral?