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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Knights of the Old Republic #1: Commencement, part 1 (of 6)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by wild_karrde, Nov 7, 2005.

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  1. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    ...And I now have it in my hot l'il hands, right here -- here are some brief thoughts on All Things Taris.

    Huzzah.

    • It seems the Mandalorian Wars *have already begun* -- there's dialogue where another Jedi tells Wayne, "[...] The war's raging. The more Jedi they send off against the Mandalorians, the more they need."

      So now we apparently need to move the date of Jedi intervention *backward* to 3,964 BBY. The inner blurb describes the Mando Wars as "having strained the Old Republic's resources to the breaking-point," although this could still refer to the Outer Rim sieges that we know occurred earlier. Too, Dark Horse's own official press releases mention that the Mando army "is about to go on the march," or something close...it could be that they simply haven't yet kicked off their full onslaught.


    • There's a moment I've already read which Exc'll likely appreciate, involving Giant Gopher-Man on a ladder; also the Vulkars get a mention. Huzzah.


    • ...But no Caged Bastila. Dammit.


    • Also -- Jedi families! Huzzah. Or at least strong Jedi connections to their families. And Jedi conjugal relationships with the sisters of *other* Jedi. (Huzzah!!) They're continuing to drill deep into the Tales of the Jedi wellhead for this series, including the earlier series' preponderance of Jedi blood-ties.

      Further, the very inner cover establishes this series and this sub-period within the "Old Republic Era" (25,000-1,000 BBY) as being "Tales of the Jedi."


    • Coruscant is again established as being the nervecenter of Jedi operations; concurrent with "Shadows and Light" (SW Tales #23) and KotOR II. There does appear to be a sizable enclave on Taris itself, contrary to some thought on these boards. A number of apprentices are set to receive knighthood, and dialogue establishes this particular outland assignment as not being one of the more...prestigious...in the order.

      Though none -- apart from Master Lucien -- know precisely *who*. And these will very likely get designated Jedi protectors/watchmen of Outer Rim worlds like Taris, vocations predicted to last for decades.


    • Cereans are glimpsed amongst the Tarisian crowd-throngs.


    • Chiss Jedi? Nope. At least I've seen none with pointy elf-ears like the one in the story. And no redeye syndrome. Unless he took some Visine right beforehand. Still, we do know there was contact between them and the greater galaxy in this era.

    On another note, it seems that my local shoppe somehow didn't receive their copies of the Ostrander Purge one-shot until just this past week or thereabouts; picked my copy of it today up along with Knights #1. Weird.
     
  2. Ive_Got_Two_Legs

    Ive_Got_Two_Legs Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Puzzling about the Mandos, especially that they'd make a fubar what with this probably being written right around the time the NEC came out...This just needs some creative thinking.

    Rvean and Malak's contention was that the Council had pledged support to the Republic war effort, but was acting too cautiously, right? Maybe they sent limited number of Jedi out (under Kavar?) when the invasion of the Republic began (this would be consistent with the Great Hyperspace/Sith Wars), but there were too little and too uncoordinated to do much. And then following Cathar, Revan and his group of Jedi go into battle independent of the Jedi Council - so there'd be a large number of Jedi fighting aggressively under Revan, and a smaller number under "direct" control of the councils.
     
  3. Darth Pipes

    Darth Pipes Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 1999
    I've never played the game but I've really enjoyed the first issue.
     
  4. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Almost precisely among my line of thinking -- there's going to have to be a fair bit of tweaking this history in the wake of this issue; and the Cathar-genocide occurs either in this year or the following year, which in itself would be a major motivator for the Jedi under Revan to arse themselves into responding.

    The Jedi are already established as being involved in the fight, although judging by Kavar's attitude toward you in the KotOR II trial-flashback, it doesn't seem that he would've been immediately anxious to jump right into the fray so soon in that stage of the war.

    Though he was established as being "the one" that the Mandos expected the Republic to place in charge of the overall military effort...perhaps he did lead a few early incursions against the enemy, with Revan then politically usurping command of the Jedi in the field, thereby accounting for the Mandalorian surprise at this.

    Too, from this issue, the implication is that the Jedi themselves are getting stretched rather thin by the strain of putting boots on the ground, and there's also the mass-knighthoods to consider. Master Lucien appears to be the primary Jedi Master in charge of the Taris enclave (which is simpatico with Master Arca and others in this period), and the banquet seen in the issue has at least a slight flavor of being a last "about-to-die-in-battle" fête for the soon-to-be-Knights among them.

    ...Stop the presses -- it *can* work, after all.

    Just pulled out the NEC, and here's what it says on the early days of the Mando Wars (p. 22):

    The Mandalorian Crusaders had gained strength during the Sith War, but their leader Mandalore had died on the jungle moon of Dxun. Following tradition, a new soldier took up the name and identity of Mandalore, and this warrior led his "Neo-Crusaders" to triumphs that would be forever celebrated in the refrains of Mandalore skirmish-songs. Slowly at first, Mandalore conquered fringe worlds that were left defenseless in the Sith War's aftermath. Joining their war matériel to his own, within a decade Mandalore had accumulated a swath of territory that dwarfed Hutt space. Republic efforts to halt Mandalore's advance were half-hearted, until the warlord took advantage of his enemy's apathy and poured into Republic space.

    After which point -- according to the NEC -- Cassus Fett strategized the Cathar bombardment. So it does indeed seem that the Republic *had* been pulling a Rumsfeld, sending in just enough troops to lose, when the Cathar incident helped to galvanize the Jedi under Revan into taking hardcore action against them around 3,963 BBY. (And despite the fact that Cathar itself was not a member of the Republic at all, per first game.)

    Further, the NEC date-locks the earliest Mandalorian incursions into the Republic as starting in the year 3,995 BBY, the year after the Great Sith War ended. As was discussed in the Battles Fought During the Sith War thread, evidence from the games implies that the Mandalorians very likely kept much of the Republic's attention away from the Onderon system and their secret forward bases there until much lat
     
  5. Master_Keralys

    Master_Keralys VIP star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Going hunting for a comic shop... now. :)

    - Keralys
     
  6. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Hmmm.....I hope this news doesn't stop us from seeing some mandolorian wars down the line.
     
  7. Ive_Got_Two_Legs

    Ive_Got_Two_Legs Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2005
    "Republic efforts to halt Mandalore's advance were half-hearted, until the warlord took advantage of his enemy's apathy and poured into Republic space."

    I took this line from the NEC to mean that the Republic's half-hearted attempts had been more diplomatic than military in nature, which go along with KOTOR I saying how the Republic Senate kinda-sorta tried to ask the Mandos to stop, but in reality had no authority over them to do anything. But perhaps some senators decide to send out some Jedi for "aggressive negotiations"...
     
  8. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Very good issue to kick this series off with- I loved the ending's surprise, had to look at that two page spread for a awhile to let it sink in. Art's sweet as well. It's interesting that Gryph is a Snivvian (hadn't made the connection before).
     
  9. Ive_Got_Two_Legs

    Ive_Got_Two_Legs Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Jul 18, 2005
    As I recall, the comic's writer actually said so on these very boards. I'm surprised you all people would have forgotten that, T2Q [face_shame_on_you]
     
  10. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Ha, now that you mention it, I do remember him mentioning that awhile back. I had forgotten though.
     
  11. Master_Keralys

    Master_Keralys VIP star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Just got it, read the first two sections so far... will comment more thoroughly later. However, as a note: I like it a lot so far. Nice blend of action, humor, and character development. "How much were those tax breaks you wanted?" :p

    - Keralys
     
  12. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    Wow, my crappy local shop actually had a copy :eek:

    Decent start to the series, and it'll be interesting to see where they go from here in terms of relating to the games and possibly TotJ as well (crosses fingers for a Vima Sunrider cameo)
     
  13. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Glad you found one, w_k. There was one copy left in my shop when I got there, and the new issues had been on the stands for less than 2 hours.

    On another note (and which I completely, utterly forgot to bring up earlier, in all the foofaraw):

    Whom could the "she" back on Coruscant be, referred to in the hushed conversation betwixt Lucien and that lispy, green-skinned hentai-Jedi?

    Kreia? Vash? Atris?

    Vima Sunrider??
     
  14. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Hentai-Jedi? o_O [face_thinking]
     
  15. DarthMane2

    DarthMane2 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Do the games themselves say anything to the likes of the Jedi Council helping the Republic during the early stages of the War? I don't remember.

    I thought Taris would already be hanging the Mandalorian banner by now.

    The Mandalorian Wars shouldn't even be going on right now, and the Mandalorian I thought were still taking worlds in the outer rim at this point.
     
  16. Master_Keralys

    Master_Keralys VIP star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Games don't say anything on the topic save that the matter was under discussion by the Council and that help was planned (though nothing specific as to actions they may have taken was actually discussed in game); if the Mandalorians are pillaging the Outer Rim then isn't the war on by definition? - and how would Taris be under the Mando banner if the war wasn't on? :confused:

    My biggest questions are: WHY? (for the obvious reasons) and WHO? (again, for the obvious reason of the "she" back on Coruscant is referred to, especially since that's in the context of "tonight"). [face_thinking]

    There was only one copy left on the shelves in my shop, too, but I don't know how many they got or how many got picked up, as I've never so much as ventured into a comic shop prior to this. :p So now there's no copies left! [face_devil] I'm intent on picking these up quick.

    I'm highlighting this for spoilers in lieu of knowing the spoiler policy on these threads (which I haven't really paid much attention to prior to this) - if it's unnecessary somebody let me know and I'll correct it and recall that for the future.

    I rather like both the visual and literary style of this so far. Visually, it manages to look like the game world pretty well, capturing the feel of Taris - but without sacrificing the overall look and mythos of the slightly more archaic - visually, I mean - TotJ stuff. Nice details on the outfits, which are midway between what we see in game and older comic: they're very stylized and definitely designed to impress and carry a sense of individuality, despite their greater degree of uniformity than what we saw in TotJ. Also, the sabers have a nice blend of the older, stylized designs and the newer "flashlight" look. [face_thinking]

    Storytelling-wise, I like this a lot - even better than the stuff in Republic that I've read. It's got a good sense of adventure; we already identify nicely with Zayne (who, to what I'm sure will be Ex's everlasting delight, I don't think ever got referred to by his whole name), and there's a wonderful mix of humor and the ominous. That scene with the senator discussing tax breaks, and mentioning that the Jedi assure him the situation is well in hand right as Zayne goes falling by... that cracked me up immensely. Nice use of irony. And of course, then we have our simultaneously ominous and confusing ending - that two-page wideview took a couple minutes to really sink it; I, like T2Q, ended up just sitting there staring at it, letting the realization sink home. And then wondering: what in the blazes are we (and Zayne!) missing? I think that's probably one of the best parts in terms of making us identify with Zayne: we're exactly as much in the dark as he is. No more, no less. Exactly the same.


    I'm hooked. *sigh* Knew it was going to happen, and it did. :p

    - Keralys
     
  17. DarthMane2

    DarthMane2 Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 20, 2003
    Well the Republic didn't much care for what happened in the outer rim, or for Cathar according to the dialogue with Juhani. So no the war didn't begin offically until the Mandalorians attacked the Republic.
     
  18. Master_Keralys

    Master_Keralys VIP star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 8, 2003
    Don't forget that Juhani has a serious bias issue. I take everything, and I mean everything that she says with a huge grain of salt. She's angry, and she was a kid. Literally, a kid - remember, she was in her teens when her father died on Taris, and that was years after they evacuated... I have no doubt that the Republic did some things, given that the Cathar applied for Republic aid that simply didn't get there in time - if you pay attention that's what actually happened, as I recall; took me till the third time through to realize that - because the Republic hadn't committed to a full-scale war yet.

    - Keralys
     
  19. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Not necessarily 100 percent because of Mane's question per se, but rather some further thoughts of mine on this issue (because it generally applies, reposted from the discussion over on the DH boards...and because it saves me time from having to retype [face_coffee]):


    [/blockquote]
    Officially, though, the Mandalorian Wars lasted from 3,995-3,961 BBY, although of course the Republic didn't make more than half-assed interventional gestures until at least 3,964 (as we see in the comic series). As this story begins, we're starting to see much more of a direct offensive posture on the part of the Jedi, but again, we don't know yet whether it might've been on the part of threatened Outer Rim enclaves who cried "self-defense," or if the High Council were sanctioning an upsurge in force strength by this point.

    It seems from the NEC that it was the Cathar incident which served as this war's equivalent of the [i]Lusitania[/i] sinking -- a massive tragedy which horrified the general public of a "neutral," unaligned culture, and which forced the until-then-complacent Council into taking direct, unequivocal action against this enemy. (After all, [i]they[/i] could be next.)
    [blockquote][hr][/blockquote]
    The games themselves seem to suggest more that the Jedi kept out of the war until much later; one dialogue-scene in (I believe) the second story establishes that the Republic came to the Order *[i]on bended knee[/i]*, requesting that they intervene in the war, but that the High Council refused.

    Which jibes with the new information from this issue and the NEC, with the Jedi now apparently hip-deep in the blood, after the Republic spent several fruitless years attempting to quell the Mandalorian surge.
     
  20. DarthMane2

    DarthMane2 Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 20, 2003
    but that's another thing. If the Republic was already at war trying to keep the Mando's at bay in the rim, then why did the game say they were surprised at the 3 sector attack the Mandalorian made when they attacked the Republic?

    According to the game, the Mandalorains caught the Republic completely off guard.
     
  21. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Yup, that's going to have to be one of those things addressed in the storyline at some point -- a reconciliation between Canderous's dialogue and what we see in this project. Very likely, the massive pour-in recently happened, or it's coming very soon; their offensive being one of the events that predated Revan's involvement.
     
  22. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    (double-post)
     
  23. DarthMane2

    DarthMane2 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Yet if it recently happened then the Republic shouldn't be caring about anything on the rim. The games says they were pretty well into in REPUBLIC space when the War began. NO one could stop them, it also says.
     
  24. GoG

    GoG Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2005
    WoW

    This brought me back so many years.. I really enjoyed this!
     
  25. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2003
    This series is looking better and better. I like the fact that it was released on time, and the art was gorgeous. The story is not bad, man, at the end, is it me or are the Jedi Masters the one that killed those padawns? Just gave me the impression that the whole set up was to kill Zayne at that meeting at night. This should keep us going until the new KOTOR videogame comes out. By the way, is that 25 cent flip book coming out next week an original mini-story or is like an excerpt of this issue that was just released?
     
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