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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit A/V Kotor? remake? is? probably? (not?) happening?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jid123Sheeve, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I don't see a need for conspiracy theories here, especially as Aspyr has screwed up so spectacularly.
     
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  2. Maybe the KOTOR Remake will be Reborn again but as i said before the Original Game for me is still Good
     
  3. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    For a very specific, surprisingly niche audience - it is, but beyond that? Not so much by current standards.

    But it's not mutually exclusive you can like both.
     
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  4. Jedi Master Frizzy

    Jedi Master Frizzy Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Kotor 1 is almost a beat for beat a New Hope. Good ending has the celebration victory. Its good but nothing special.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2023
  5. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Hmm, no, I wouldn't go with that. KotOR's story is rather different and is very much designed for gaming.
     
  6. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Yeah I don’t remember Luke actually turning out to be Vader in A New Hope. KOTOR had a very Star Wars story but the plot is its own.
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    And I don't think that story can work for film in the same way.

    I have many criticisms of KotOR but that twist absolutely works, decades later and with knowledge of it.
     
  8. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Yup. I’ve been watching this week a totally awesome YouTube “movie” someone has put together, which has Revan’s whole story, from the JJM comics through to TOR, with cutscenes mixed in together from KOTOR2 where appropriate for Kreia’s Mandalorian Wars commentary, and even though I know the story, seeing it assembled as a movie still is as enjoyable as it was two decades ago.
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I only played it on Switch in either 2021 or 2022. So no way to avoid the twist playing the game near 20 years later, but it still worked.
     
  10. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
  11. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Having now played BG3 for a few weeks(I can't tell you how many hours, it's not that many), I can honestly say I want a KOTOR-like Star Wars game taking inspiration from BG3, probably using the ruleset of the Star Wars ttrpg.

    Heck, if they were to actually do a KOTOR remake I'd like to see BG3 influence. But really, I think there needs to be a SW RPG that has more character and narrative freedom than KOTOR. Personally, I'd set it in the High Republic phase 2 period.
     
  12. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    BG3 is perhaps the best game I’ve ever played. I have ~320 hours into it, which is probably more than any game I’ve ever played outside of maybe some of the Paradox games like Europa Universalis 4 (which I also wouldn’t mind seeing their take on the SW universe).

    I’ve beaten the game only once, but have played through Act 1 probably 10 times at least, and almost every time I’ve discovered something new whether it be new dialogue, or a new “hidden” area, or a fight might play out radically differently.

    I read an interview with a Bethesda dev contrasting Skyrim with BG3 and one of the major differences is that choices in Skyrim are minor. They don’t drastically affect the gameplay because the devs want you to be able to experience as much content as possible.

    In BG3, certain choices might alienate companions causing you to lose out on hours upon hours worth of quest chains and interesting interactions and plot. It’s great for replayability, but with the game standing already at ~100 hours, multiple completions become unlikely for all but the most devoted of fans.

    It would be great if every game could be so thorough, but realistically the two major takeaways I would wish for a SW RPG video game to borrow from BG3 are:

    1. The turn based combat. I grew up on JRPGs and random encounters which for me, felt so archaic compared to games like BG2 and KOTOR. But after BG3, I feel that style of turn based combat is optimal.

    2. It always felt weird to me in KOTOR when no matter how good or evil I was, all my companions just put up with it. I like that BG3 isn’t opposed to perma death of potential companions or that a companion can potentially abandon you if you take a course of action that they are vehemently opposed to.

    In BG3 it seems like most of the companions are on a road of self destruction and only with high enough influence can you steer them off the path and radically change their outcome (or alternatively encourage them to double down).

    The companions feel more like individuals with their own personal desires who will leave you if you refuse to take them into account.

    I kind of wish in hindsight that when Carth learns of his son being at the Sith Academy that he would similarly give Revan the ultimatum of “I’m going to see my son, with or without you.” As opposed to him basically just being a “yes man” to whatever Revan wants.


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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2024
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  13. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    KOTOR didn't even have a party influence system, except for like a crucial choice here or there. Specifically when Bastila has gone dark. KOTOR2 had an influence system, but it mostly meant that if you went good or bad so did your companions.
     
  14. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    BG3 has the “hirelings” which can help flesh out your party if too many of your companions leave, if they were rejected by the player, or if they were killed.

    Honestly, in a retelling of KOTOR, I wouldn’t mind it if by the end of the game evil Revan is running around with Sith Trooper hirelings because the rest of the companions either left or were killed for opposing him.


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  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yeah, I feel like something in the middle is good. I liked that KOTOR companions had their own convictions, and I liked KOTOR's influence system. I didn't like that you could just shift companions to go with you, although that did largely depend on influence.

    The much-maligned Dragon Age 2 did get one thing really right: the friendship/rivalry system was very interesting and let you experience different content based on whether companions liked or hated you. It's a little more nuanced than companions straight up just having 0 approval and not liking you, because hatred (but being stuck with you due to circumstance) had interesting outcomes.

    I tend to think of cRPGs as iterative. KOTOR was the successor to the original BG1 and BG2 and NWN. KOTOR2 was the successor of all of those, plus some DNA from Black Isle games due to Obsidian making it. Dragon Age built on all of the past BioWare games. Larian's BG3 is molded by what BioWare did throughout its storied legacy, to build the current masterpiece of the RPG genre.

    I would love for that level of ambition to be spent on a SW RPG again, like it did for the KOTOR games.
     
  16. Zer0

    Zer0 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    I'd give anything for a SW game similar to BG3, there's so much potential there.
     
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  17. Jedi Knight88

    Jedi Knight88 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2018
    You and me both
     
  18. Jedi Knight88

    Jedi Knight88 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Sorry double post
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2024
  19. Darth Vectivus

    Darth Vectivus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 2023
    I dont think KOTOR 1 remake will ever be made if KOTOR returns it will be KOTOR 1 but adapted to the Disney Canon narratives changing the story of the original game drastically like Mandalorians being more like TCW Mandalorians Revan and Bastila having a dyad not references to Tales of the Jedi characters and maybe change the era of KOTOR 1 closer to the Prequels like 2000 or 1000 BBY shortly before Darth Bane maybe shortly before High Republic maybe the Rakata dont exist or with lore changes Malachor being more like in Rebels
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2024
  20. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    The Old Republic is Legends and still ongoing for the foreseeable future, and has several ties to the original game that come up over the course of the story. I don’t know that they would necessarily be too adamant about making Kotor canon. It seems just as easy to wave the magic wand and re-canonize what they’ve already got, if they are that concerned about it.

    I’m curious as to, mechanically, what the plan would be considering that the original was based on what are now defunct rules developed by Wizards of the Coast. I’m wondering if they would go more for an action RPG gameplay like Jedi Survivor or FF7: Remake.


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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2024
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  21. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Turn based is hot again because of BG3, but I could see a more action RPG being most likely.

    I always thought the now forgotten gameplay of Jade Empire would be a good fit.
     
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  22. FromDromundKaasWithLove

    FromDromundKaasWithLove Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2020
    The friendship/rivalry system was interesting and good, but it did have the problem that it minimized consequences for certain actions and screwed over characterization. This is best exemplified by Hawke selling Fenris back into (amnesiac/abuse/rape) slavery, a choice that nets rivalry points when it makes zero sense for some characters to stick around after that. In Origin, some choices had the consequence of a party member either leaving or straight-up turning on you weapons out because the choice you made went so against their character. It makes zero sense for Isabela, with her backstory and friendship with Fenris, to not ditch Hawke in disgust or try to fight. Aveline and Merrill likewise. That choice should both break certain romances and lead to a character leaving the party permanently.

    Otherwise, it was, as mentioned, interesting and good.

    I honestly wouldn't mind if they changed the combat system to an extent because it feels stilted to me. A bit more fluidity and better pace would be nice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2024
  23. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    The KOTOR combat system is weird, becaus I dont think it lends itself well to the tactics angle that the BG series has and that turn based usually work with.

    I should try to do a more tactical playthrough once I get deeper experience in BG3 to see how much a difference it might make. You can usually kind of tank your way through KOTOR regardless of your class.
     
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  24. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I beat KOTOR despite completely not understanding the D20 system, saving throws and not really playing to different characters’ strengths (like making Mission melee and not making conscious use of her sneak attack ability and Canderous ranged).

    It was a very forgiving game for someone completely unfamiliar with the DnD style of rules.

    BG3 is way more unforgiving and requires more understanding of the rules and more strategic planning.


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  25. Jedi Master Frizzy

    Jedi Master Frizzy Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    The ones making Kotor been sold from Embracer to another private company. So there might be light and life.