ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

Man I can’t say enough about how good Kylo was in all 3 of these films thanks to Driver. He really did carry this trilogy for me.

 

Adam’s character portrayal of Kylo Ren/Ben Solo was true to the lore he had to live up too. Kylo Ren was a well developed and truly conflicted character, one of this sagas greatest.

 

They pulled off making him menacing at the start of TROS, yet still transitioning believably to his redemption storyline. It may have been a little fast, but I respect JJ and Terrio being careful to find a balance with the character for the final movie.
Adam Driver is great in it as well of course.

 

A great Star Wars character, with a great look, played by a great actor.

Petulant, arrogant, manipulative, presumptuous. One of the greatest villains, and yet such a convincing turn in the last act.

Bravo

 

Fantastic characters. Both of them. Fun to hate as Kylo Ren and root for as Ben Solo. Fascinating when you see glimpses of Ben fighting through Kylo Ren from time to time throughout. Rey could see more of who we met at the end earlier. She knew he was inside there fighting not to be killed by Kylo Ren.

 

Worst villain of any of the episodic films, just a complete disappointment. Petulant when he should be steely, pathetic when he should be menacing, and unconvincing when he expects sympathy.

The in-universe character obsesses with living up to Anakin/Vader's legacy, but this is as much a fourth-wall breaking inferiority complex as an element of the story. Kylo is a wimpy villain, not the kind of antagonist you love to hate, just the one you roll your eyes over. He lets you down ever time, and the closer you examine him, the more hollow he gets. Both Abrams and Johnson expected us to imagine and perceive a "Ben" character that vaguely echoes the Anakin/Vader dichotomy, but couldn't be bothered to actually tell that story, and instead relied on Driver's respectable but ultimately inadequate performance to draw the audience in.

Well, maybe that's not fair to Driver. Like Benicio Del Toro, it seems that he was expected to create a character on his own, an actor doing a writer's job. But while Del Toro was able to mostly get away with improvising an inconsequential proto-character through shrugs, winces and muttering asides, Driver tried to anchor the emotional arc of the trilogy with nothing but a hypnotic gaze and three or four tears. This was always going to be a ludicrous, impossible mission, and it's not fair to blame him for it failing.

Like most of the ideas in the sequel trilogy, Kylo is a character that never graduated out of the concept art phase. He's a reflection of LFL's indecisiveness, confusion, and disinterest with the project.

 

I liked how JJ handled the character in the first and last film.

 

I suspect that for most audience members who like the PT less than you @Glitterstimm the take away after IX is that petulance and anger and kicking people’s butts... he was everything they wanted Hayden’s Anakin to be just told in reverse. His acting has been cited as a strength constantly. That hasn’t always been the case in the saga.

 

Pretty disgusted how LFL made Kylo a poster boy for white privileged dudes who think they are entitled to do whatever they want because they have the right name and looks, and then said, "Yes, you can do whatever you want, because your feelings are more important than literally anything else."

 

What I love most is that he served as a reminder to men the world over to be better and become part of the solution to issues impacting women.

All men need to look within themselves and defeat their inner Kylo Ren and find their inner Ben Solo.

Whereas something like Joker could legitimately inspire unstable men to become terrorists the journey toward Ben Solo might help make the world a better place.

 

Your subtle anti-PT post doesn't help the situation.

I like that they are two very different characters. And yes, on a deeper level, kind of inverted.

That is all.

 

All men secretly think it's okay to kidnap a woman, strap her to a table, and violate her?

 

Kylo was the most interesting and best character out of the ST. Before someone jumps down my throat I will clarify that I mean he served as a good villain and Adam Driver gave three outstanding performances. I obviously don’t condone what he does.

 

No. And they won’t be able to magically give life to women who die either. The extremes on both ends are metaphorically, well... extreme. But men can look within themselves to see where their anger or privilege or ego or sense of entitlement has lead them to negatively impact others in less extreme ways all the same and even if they can’t use the force to give life to a woman dying in front of them... they can be selfless in other ways.

 

I'm going to wait and see how stringently the mods want to regulate trilogy vs trilogy debates before diving into this, but for now I'll just point out that Anakin is returning in a couple months for TCW, and Kylo is probably gone for good. Hope you enjoyed him, because you ain't gonna see that guy no more.

 

This is just utter nonsense.

 

It’s not trilogy versus trilogy. That’s a much bigger topic that isn’t allowed. But we can compare characters and the actors playing them individually. Especially those related in the same family when one idolizes the other.

Driver in 60 minutes of total screen time over 3 movies won acclaim without the benefit of a multi-season TV show loaded with additional heroism and character development or the advantage of people wanting to like him due to knowing him later as one of the most iconic characters of all time and huge part of their childhoods.

What Driver was able to do with such limited screen time over 3 films is nothing short of remarkable. His presence is so much larger than his screen time and that’s all Driver. Every moment he has on screen matters.

And with the Soule comic and likely more backstory coming I will still be able to enjoy more of the man who was able to save who he loved where his grandfather never could.

 

He was not a well developed character by any stretch of the imagination but Adam was phenomenal in portraying a conflicted character despite being given no backstory at all so it still kept you interested and hoping to find out. It's amazing that he was able to do so much with so little and really highlighted Adam's talent.

 

What I would’ve given for Kylo to actually have had a conversation with Anakin at some point. Would’ve been amazing.

 

I felt he channeled a mix of young Anakin & Han at the end.

 

Honestly, I actually dig Kylo's arc. I don't dig that Rey kissed him, but I do like that he had it all and in the end, he lost it all. He was the legacy child, he had the mythical uncle Luke Skywalker. His father owned the Millennium Falcon. His mother was the leader of the Resistance. He was the heir of all their great legacies.... and in the end, because of his choices, he does not get to live happily ever after with their name. He doesn't get to own the Falcon. Anakin's lightsaber called to the true hero: Rey Skywalker, despite her parents choosing to live as "nobodies". A famous quote in Harry Potter, "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities," really highlights Ben Solo's arc, both his evil deeds and his ultimate redemption. In the end, Ben Solo chose one last chance to redeem himself to go help the true heir of the Skywalker legacy, Rey, and he died reviving her. I like it.

 

Both the movies “Pierrepoint” and “The Green Mile” have short speeches given in them about those executed. When the condemned are dead, they are said to be “innocent now, because they have paid their debt” The ultimate debt.

I like to think that Ben knew that it would cost him his own life when he gave it to revive Rey, and so at the time of the kiss, he was already a dead man, and had thus paid his debt.

 

I thought that went without saying. Rey says something about this earlier in the film.

The ending didnt have any momentum imo, because of how bam bam bam the film was cut and paced. I went into the film pretty much 100 percent fresh. Maybe a split second of a trailer here and there but thats about it. I felt that JJ had some strong elements to work with handed to him by Johnson, dealing with these two actors. But the execution just wasnt as musical as The Last Jedi.

But given the direction JJ and whoever decided to go in, i think a better ending could have been had if it ended up being Rey who was the big death in the film, with Ben Solo either confronting the rebels or them discovering him there, OR having him leave everything behind(an outlet for a new saga perhaps).