ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

Yes, that was one of the better things about it, pity we didn't see more of it.

 

We'll see it in the Super Duper Sequel Trilogy

 

Indeed. These two made the lightsaber duels pretty interesting.

 

I don't think there's anything particularly 1950's about a mom and her brother training her son to fight with a lightsaber or something.

 

I disagree with you. I think her specifically, who knew what it means to be Force sensitive along with the dangers of the Dark side of the Force allure, should have foreseen the danger in which her son was. And I think she knew that she could lose him. Her vocalized regret indicates this: "There's too much Vader in him.
-That's why I wanted him to train with Luke. I just never should have sent him away. That's when I lost him. That's when I lost you both."

And since 1950s didn't have Force sensitive children, nor issues regarding raising them, or a galactic war as well, your comparison is moot point.

Strongly disagree. Parents' behaviour leave emotional response on their children. Even in regular, non FS.

I apologize if I misunderstood. I only replied because I don't agree with absolving hot guys just because they are hot. (once hot always hot)
I guess what the question is why does SW has a history of absolving "sociopaths" and the main discussion point being can we judge them "sociopaths". Because if Anakin and Kylo are undoubtedly such and are solely responsible for their 'sociopathic' behaviour because they are simply sociopaths then, damn...SW absolves sociopaths...And I can't believe that.

 

They rotated the entire narrative around Kylo at the expense of the OT characters. That is why some people took issue with it.

 

Um....I think it's more that his mum sent him to train with his uncle who he believed tried to murder him in his bed.
My big issue with Luke and Leia is that they apparently knew about Snoke and didn't do anything. I strongly suspect Han didn't, because he would have promptly killed him.

 

Yet it was always going to focus on the next generation. That was the whole idea.

 

I can see that. But I don't think it is a question of either/or.
Personally I think TLJ Luke was awesome. For the most part due to the fact that he lacked arrogance that even Yoda himself associated with the Jedi. A trait the hint of wich he was showing in RoTJ (when he entered Jabba's palace). He freed himself from that. For me, that is something worthy of respect.

@anakinfansince1983 I think you generalize. Thank you for the discussion though, but as I said I disagree with you.

 

you can focus on the new characters without belittling the old ones.

 

It's never stated that Luke *wants* to kill Ben Solo. It says he fears losing everything he built and love, where for a "fleeting moment" that fear got the best of him. This goes to show that even wise jedi like Luke skywalker are not infallible, that even as a jedi master he is still facing challenges and learning, himself.

 

I think Luke, Leia and Han were only further humanized in ST not belittled. Leia had "flaws" in OT, all of them had. Han was a criminal who shoots people first, Leia was arrogant, so much so she couldn't admit she loved Han in ESB.
Well, truth to be told, Luke didn't have much flaws, he was simply good, but still he was naive at times and lacking faith, giving up too easy.

Their 'flaws' is what makes them interesting in my honest opinion...and relatable. That's why I like them.
But that won't mean I won't discuss what I think they could have done better.
So, as far as I'm concerned no belittling.
He who is without sin cast the first stone....and all that.

 

But they grew in the OT. They regressed them too much imo. There is a lot of room between perfect and what we got. Of course I don't want them to be perfect of and course characters face obstacles.

 

That he would bring destruction to everything he loved. He sensed the darkside growing in him. So, it wasnt immediate. Rise of Skywalker should have wrapped this up, which is why I said awhile back that ep9 should have focused more tightly on Rey, kylo, and this area in particular.

The Last Jedi was smart in closing in on these themes. It seems theres a side that saw the more intimate connection with the force as the bigger picture, and then those that think the direction should have been more akin to Tros with 10000000000 blaster fires and 294948383 ships in space. Tros went for the latter, imo less impactful route.

 

I thought you just said you *wanted* to know more details on that area. I agree. That part should have been the impactful moment in ep9. Instead, for some odd reason, jj found the whole notion of "rey palpatine" as more important.

What you are saying is just projecting how you think things played out. We dont know.

It doesnt demonize the characters imo.

 

They are his family so of course they are involved to some degree just by that fact, but you are forgetting about snoke. Its said from the start that "no, it was snoke that turned our son to the darkside" and "snoke had already turned his heart". Past episodes have already shown what the darkside can do to people and how one can be deceived or tricked or being transformed into someone lusting for power and control, especially when it is already at their fingertips.

I think everyone wanted those details. I think that's why people are so split on TLJ. Because continuing what that film prioritized would being bringing those interpersonal, intimate moments about the force etc full circle. Tros abandoned that. Imo that wasnt just the heart of the sequel trilogy but of the entire saga as well.

 

That's why Kylo needed to have a connection to Rey that tied into his fall (whether familial or something else). Once they decided to make Rey unconnected, the why's and where's of Kylo's fall was no longer an important aspect to be explored by the narrative in a movie trilogy about Rey. For all it's faults, I'm glad that TROS remembered who it's protagonist was.

 

It's exactly why I like them as well.