ST Kylo Ren and Rey in VIII and IX (See new guidelines on page 228)

Hello, everyone. I’ve noticed some tentative discussion about the possible future interactions between Kylo Ren and Rey in other topics on this board, and I hope that you guys will be comfortable bringing your insightful perceptions here. I do understand that this is a controversial subject, but I am interested in hearing all sides and I hope, given the turn of debate lately, that this is considered more acceptable to talk about now than it previously was. My sincere apologies if it is not.

This is not intended to be a romance thread, per se, but I am not personally against opinions on why you think it should or shouldn’t happen. The mods have the final say on that, however. I think that there is plenty to discuss about the two characters outside of that subject, especially given the new rumors and reports about Mark, Daisy, and Adam being potentially filmed together in the setting for Ahch-To.

What I have noticed about Kylo and Rey in TFA, which I think may impact their future dealings, is that they seem to be literary foils to one another. What I mean is that they are similar in many respects but that these parallels are also what set them apart as practically opposites. Examples from the film include both of their deep preoccupations with the past: he keeps the burnt mask of Darth Vader, she keeps a busted-looking pilot’s helmet. She’s been literally abandoned by family, whereas he “feels” abandoned (as per Adam Driver in an interview, though this may not necessarily be canon and is open to interpretation) but actually wasn’t, at least not according to what we know from canonical sources such as Bloodline.

The relationship between these two is clearly that of protagonist and antagonist, but as there are two films left in this trilogy and these characters are probably set to undergo major transitions, how do you see their future interactions panning out? I speculate there may be an unintentional bond between them, or something else that will result in a presumably unwanted connection possibly involving Force visions. My reason for thinking this is that Kylo was at least partially responsible (in my opinion) for the awakening of the Force in Rey when he interrogated her; later in the film, he seemed to be able to sense her intentions to steal a ship as he warned the troopers about it, and he was able to track down Finn and Rey and accost them in the forest when they’re trying to escape.

Please feel free to add your two cents on how you think Kylo and Rey scenes will go in the future films. All views are welcome here.

The New Films staff has decided to lift the ban on discussions pertaining to Reylo. This decision was made in an effort to be more inclusive to all areas of fandom but it comes with some ground rules:

• discussion forums are for discussion of what we have seen (and know in advance about) the content of the films in the Sequel Trilogy only - fanfic, fan clubs, fan art etc. have homes elsewhere
• as usual, no baiting, trolling, hijacking, off-topic discussion, etc. which includes diversions into rape vs. "good intentions" and so forth
• nobody has "won" and there is still no official position from the staff

 

What you're describing makes perfect sense. I think the subject only gets controversial when it becomes primarily about advocating for a romantic relationship between the two. But clearly, Rey and Kylo will have a "relationship" in the ST. An antagonistic one, I believe, but one that will cut deep for one reason or another.

 

It's not controversial to talk about two main characters interactions, that's weird.

You knew from the poster these two are linked somehow maybe more than we know. He is a Skywalker and she is, something special obviously, but who knows what her last name is.

On the scene shooting now, the one thing I do not think it will be is what the climax of vii, was. With Kylo, somehow getting there and trying to take on Rey, possibly defeating her and then Luke defeating him. Rian, will have something more original planned. Seems like it could be a big thing for this trilogy, though.

 

Reylo

 

Yes, they have a force bond and eventually they will both have "compassion" for one another, which will be important in Kylo Ren's redemption arc. He won't be redeemed fully until episode IX though, a lot of bad stuff will happen in episode VIII. Really, get used to Reylo. Come to the grey middle.

 

I hope this one doesn't get locked.

 

i think it's inevitable that they will fight again but one way or another luke intervenes.

 

Yeah Luke totally has "dibs" on kicking Kylo's ***!

 

Rey, has already done that, so obviously he doesn't.

 

I think Kylo MAY find a way to appeal to Rey's darker nature, something may be discovered that turns her away from the light and to Kylo, temporarily. BUT in no way is it going to be depicted as anything but twisted and messed up ( although maybe that appeals to some). Ultimately though, she will come to her senses, with Finn's help, and probably kill Kylo in the end.

 

zam wesell2005
Luke doesn't have to know that. First rule of Jedi Fight Club....

 

I think there are a number of ways their dynamic moving forward will be amazing to watch. Whether it's purely antagonistic, some sort of meeting in the middle, familial or not, or something else from left field. I'm open to a lot when it comes to them as long as it's well done and consistent with their characterizations.

The *only* dynamic which would be inherently harmful to both of their characters (but Rey's in particular) to me would be a romantic one. I'm not open to that due to events in TFA which can't be undone or explained away, no matter how the story unfolds in future films. I'm excited to see what Rian Johnson does with them in VIII.

 

Who do you think is more likely to lose a hand between the two? Kylo or Rey

 

NOTE: Be very careful that this thread does not end up becoming another Reylo thread. Everyone knows what happened to the two locked threads before. As stated by the OP, romance is just one potential aspect of the relationship between these two characters. Any attempts to make this thread only about that romantic angle, or any attempts to stifle discussion about other aspects or other points of view, will not go well for the poster making those attempts. This is the warning. Also, please do not fill the thread with Reylo fan art images or GIFs.

Note: Please see warning on page 2.

 

Rey

 

It took me 6 weeks after seeing TFA in theaters to take off the "lightsaber calling to her suggests she's Luke's" goggles and stop ignoring everything else I had seen on screen. There's plenty of room for disagreement and healthy, respectful discussion here - this should not be a "controversial" topic. Now personally, having had months to deconstruct the film ad nauseum I will eat my left sock if it's not an epic romance angle they're going for. Here's why:

Foreshadowing:
1. Kylo Ren bridal carries (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BridalCarry) Rey. On stage, this means one of two things in the context of a monster or young man (and Kylo is both) carrying a young woman in this manner, either villainous crush or foreshadowed romance.
2. Although the scene is very obviously NOT romantic in nature, Kylo and Rey are blocked in an Almost Kiss during the interrogation while he reads her mind, during which instance he gazes at her eyes and lips with a soft, longing look while he speaks of her loneliness and isolation. Again, the situation is obviously NOT romantic on its face, but it seems to convey two points: In spite of the circumstances he finds himself feeling compassion for this woman and he is physically attracted to her. The Almost Kiss positioning suggests this will actually happen one day.
Metaphor:
1. At the beginning of Rey's interrogation, Kylo appears crouched down in the shadows peering up at the "Rey of Light", the physical manifestation of his "pull to the Light".
2. Temptation. During Rey's vision the phrase "You will be tempted" can be heard. The hiss of Kylo's helmet unlocking during the interrogation sounds distinctly like a snake hissing and rattling (the decompression as he removes his mask for his father does not sound quite the same). Think Serpent in the Garden of Eden tempting Eve with the Tree of Knowledge. Kylo is presented as "temptation" and it is through their interaction that Rey discovers knowledge of her Force sensitivity.
Blocking:
1. Kylo and Rey's stark difference in height is highlighted (whereas Finn and Rey are kept similar heights, which indicates they are not set up for romance).
2. Almost Kiss during interrogation and Takodana woods. Having established Ren is able to read minds without being thisclose to the subject via Poe's scene, there is no reason for Ren to be so close it looks as though they could kiss (except to subliminally suggest to the audience this is a possibility).
Presentation and Context Clues:
1. Kylo first unmasks for Rey, revealing a handsome young man. This first shot is his most aesthetically pleasing, followed closely by his close-ups during he and Rey's lightsaber battle. His sexual features - eyes and lips - are drawn attention to while his less conventionally attractive features are downplayed via makeup and lighting. He also appears with perfectly coiffed hair. He is presented visually as our male romantic lead, even if he is not suitable material for romance at the moment. While Finn is naturally handsome, his sexuality is not "played up" in the same manner.
2. Of significance is that the above shot is from Rey's perspective, so the audience is meant to understand that even if she finds him morally reprehensible, Rey finds Kylo Ren physically attractive. Her reaction says as much, at first taken aback, then giving him elevator eyes, and pointedly looking away when he walks over (whereas with the mask on she had no trouble looking directly at him), but stealing a couple of glances over at him nonetheless.
Subtext: "I can show you the ways of the Force." This is a peculiar way for a Dark Sider to recruit someone. In all other SW films Dark Siders mention "the power of the Dark Side" or something similar during recruiting attempts. This line is phrased this way to call to mind the common phrase "ways of the world", which can be used as a euphemism for sex. (Hey, still a better pickup line than "I don't like sand". ) While it's obviously not intended to be a direct pickup line, it is meant to suggest the well-known euphemism to the audience.
Thematic Continuation: The OT gave us The Princess and the Scoundrel and the PT The Queen and the Slave. With Ben Solo the son of Princess Leia, The Prince and the Scavenger seems a likely continuation of established tropes.
Questionable Motives: Forget about the droid? Is he high? What was he going to do after he read the map from her mind, anyway? Draw it? And for good measure, let's bridal carry her through a battlefield all the way to his ship. Dude's not thinking with his brain.

Within the context of the SW franchise as a whole, Ben Solo's story seems to be taking a "Reverse Anakin and Padme" angle. Anakin begins in the Light and because of a selfish version of love for Padme he ends up falling into Darkness. Padme's love couldn't save him, but his love for their son did. We first meet Ben Solo in Darkness as Kylo Ren. He commits his most heinous act by the end of the film, and is shown (and indicated in the script) to be shocked and horrified by the "wicked act". This signifies the beginning of a redemption arc, in which he will by necessity need to commit a selfless act. If Ben's trend continues down a "Reverse Anakin" path, then while his father's love could not save him, his development of selfless love for Rey could. Even if you take out the romantic aspect and just say compassion, the implication here is that Rey is a vital part of Ben's redemption arc.

So based on this plus shooting news, how do I think their future scenes will go? I think Kylo/Ben will show up on Ache-To, he and Rey's connection through the Force will strengthen, she'll learn some mitigating information about him and/or he will do something that changes her mind about him being a "monster", and he will attempt to make amends for his past actions. He will likely save her from one of his Knights, as it looked like he was doing so during Rey's force vision. They will probably kiss or someone will drop the L bomb as the "I am your father" moment of Episode VIII.

In IX, I can't make too many predictions other than he'll need to perform a selfless act of sacrifice, likely on behalf of Rey, in order to redeem himself. In order to ensure there are Skywalkers for the next trilogy, he'll either need to remain alive or have left a bun in the oven before he dies. This is an epic space opera/fairy tale (and a family movie, so unless they're married there will be no bun in the oven), so perhaps he sacrifices himself and then is brought back through their Force connection/bond in a classic Kiss of Life.

 

They definitely have a strong connection as force users. Rey has force visions of masked kylo. And perhaps kylo had had force visions of rey too(without the face). Their destiny are somehow intertwined.

But I could never see rey turn dark. She may has difficulties controlling her anger and other dark emotions, especially the fact that surely after TFA she will totally HATES kylo(not a jedi quality) but nope, even for a temporarily moment, I dont think she'll ever turn to dark(especially to kylo).

MeadowofAshes
Well, that's an interesting pov. Yes, there are reasons why the film makers made the bridal carry, the interrogation scene, the forest fight like that. I watched the movie with my very young kids and I was so terrified that kylo was gonna do something unappropiate during the interrogation scene. Lol. But thank god nothing happened. I think those scenes just implies that kylo was fascinated by her because of her strong raw power.

At this point, I dont think any romance would ever happen to kylo and rey in VIII or IX. They were strongly connected by the force. And perhaps that's it. I could be wrong tho.

 

I don't want to quote the whole post, but great analysis. I missed a few of these things, but there's a lot of potential foreshadowing here.

 

Yeah the bridal carry was more of a "creepy monster carrying innocent victim off to his lair" and his stalking her through the woods playing out almost like a slasher movie makes me think this all the more. And given KK and LF's stated goal of making Rey a role model for women/girls, and bringing more of them into SW as a whole, I don't see them trying to push any kind of romance between the two. Especially since he's already kidnapped her, physically assaulted her, tortured her (in a scene that lots of people have read lots of "subtext" into, murdered Han Solo (whom she cared about a lot) right in front of her, and beat Finn (the person that she cares about most), again right in front of her. I just don't see Disney/LF risking the potential major backlash, to do some kind of "dark Gothic romance" that only a part of the audience would be into. Could I be wrong, maybe. But I doubt it right now.

Plus there's FAR more foreshadowing of her and Finn maybe hooking up (pretty blatant stuff honestly) than Kylo (which is mostly people reading tea leaves and applying some of their own personal POV to it).

That being said, obviously their dynamic will evolve going forward. Likely as Rey discovers more about her past and his. The big question is, HOW will it evolve? We shall see.

 

I haven't been here for a long time, and did not like TFA, but for old time's sake, thought I would throw this in. To me (just my opinion, could be wrong), it seems clear that the only way for the new stories to have any kind of serious drama, is for there to be a romance between these two characters. The other part of it that would make sense is for Rey to have some kind of "dark side" parentage, maybe even created by Snoke as the ultimate evil. So Luke, Leia and Rey are trying to turn Ren to the light, and the bad guys are trying to turn Rey to the dark side. Meanwhile, they have some kind of romantic element that makes it all very omplicated and dramatic.

I'm not likely to like or even watch the future movies, but that seems like the obvious way it has to go.

 

There are MANY other ways to have "drama" and far better ones imo, than some weird "dark gothic romance" between them.

 

Twilight. The Hunger Games. That's what these new movies are.

 

Thanks for the thread! I thought it would be helpful to gather together the potential leaks we have concerning the Rey/Kylo relationship. So, we have:

The 'exploding hut' rumour

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/4h9l7d/regarding_lukes_explosive_temper_ep8/

(Since this is from Reddit, it's obviously the most dubious piece of information we have. In its favour is that the rumour was posted two weeks ago, well before Adam Driver showed up in Ireland and all-but confirmed that Kylo Ren will be involved in the Ahch-To scenes. This is a very strange scenario, but if it's true it might suggest that Luke is keeping something secret from Rey that Kylo is about to tell her, angering Luke and causing him to lash out through the Force.)

The MSW chat

http://makingstarwars.net/2016/05/episode-128-makingstarwars-nets-now-this-is-podcasting/

(Their choice of words here is interesting, and it's notable that they entertain romance as a possibility before clarifying that the information they have does not in itself suggest romance between the characters. The biggest take-away from this is that MSW seem to believe that VIII will show the characters sharing some kind of deep and profound connection that is surprising and unexpected.)

John Boyega's comments

http://variety.com/2016/film/news/star-wars-episode-viii-darker-bigger-john-boyega-1201774027/

(While not explicitly about a romance between Rey and Kylo, it's certainly possible that a romance between them is what John is alluding to (there are limited options for romantic pairings going forward, and the nature of the comment - which is a reply to someone who saw romantic FinnRey chemistry - would appear to eliminate FinnRey itself). The tone of his comments is similar to the tone of the remarks made in the MSW exchange, which suggests surprising developments that will subvert expectations.)