ST Kylo Ren's Future/Fate. Death/Redemption/Other?

Yes. If he dies, I believe he will be a Force ghost along side Luke and Leia at the end of the film. Much like Anakin, Yoda and Obi-Wan.

 

First issue comes out on December 4. Soule also wars that some choices might be "controversial" but doesn't specify to who?
https://www.cbr.com/the-rise-of-kylo-ren-new-details-fan-expo/

Spoiler

During the Publishing in Star Wars panel of Fan Expo Toronto, writer Charles Soule (Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith) revealed new details about his upcoming and highly anticipated four-issue Marvel Comics series The Rise of Kylo Ren, which debuts on Dec. 4.

Soule described the comic as the origin story of the Kylo Ren that we see in Star Wars: The Force Awakens, or as he playfully called it, "From Ben to Ren." He confirmed that the series would deal with his apprenticeship under Luke Skywalker and the events leading up to the night he destroyed the Jedi Temple.

"You know, Ben Solo is tragic," Soule said. "The potential of him from the day he was born, everyone around him saw or thought they saw what he could be. So he was put in all these different paths, and we've kind of seen how that's gone wrong in the films so far. This is a story about Ben Solo, understanding some of the choices he made."

Other plot points that Soule mentioned are the mysterious Knights of Ren, who have been off-screen for two entire films, but whom Kylo Ren commands.

He couldn't guarantee that the readers would feel any affection for them, although he was doing everything in his power to write them as realistically as possible. "They're not good people," Soule said, "but they're people."

The way he described them sounded a lot like the treatment he gave to the Inquisitors in Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith. The Inquisitors are a team of Dark Side users, not full-fledged Sith, whose mission consists of tracking down and eliminating any Jedi survivors and fetching Force-sensitive babies and children to be raised under the shadow of the Empire. All of them were evil, but each of these characters was also distinctively memorable with very human reactions, desires, and fears.

It makes sense, because Soule also mentioned he was chosen to write The Rise of Kylo Ren because of his work on Dark Lord of the Sith, and with the five-issue Star Wars: Anakin and Obi-Wan, that also dealt with the formative Jedi years of Kylo's grandfather.

The common thread in the three stories is obvious: young men dealing with a radical change of their identity at the same time they have to face challenges set by their mentors. In Anakin and Obi-Wan, Anakin comes to realize what it really means to be a Jedi and all the things that he traded for it: a trade-off he wasn't fully conscious of at the time he left with Qui-Gon Jinn, because he was only 9 years old. In Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Vader has to learn how to be Darth Vader, and more importantly, how to let go of everything that Anakin was and that Anakin loved.

"I can't think of another one that's so absolutely walled off from his past to become somebody totally new… he's not like, 'Oh, yeah, I used to be that…' it's just like that person didn't exist," Soule explained. "Which is strange, because it is him, he has the memories, he hasn't forgotten Padme, it's just that that person is just dead."

Finally, The Rise of Kylo Ren will also deal with Ben Solo's training under Snoke, which was recently explored in Star Wars: Age of Resistance -- Supreme Leader Snoke #1, and it was nothing short of brutal. However, Soule will probably take a different approach, more character-driven than action-packed, as he did in his previous works.

When a fan asked him about the specifics of working on Star Wars for a character as important as Kylo Ren, Soule admitted he felt the pressure and that some of his choices might be considered controversial by some fans.

"You know, sometimes Star Wars stories are like telling a great story and having a great time playing in this sandbox," he said. "And other times, Star Wars jobs are like 'OK, we'll give you an incredibly key piece of the overall mythology that you have to nail.' You guys would not be very happy with me if I screw this up. And everyone here might not be very happy with the choices that I made."

However, he then explained that he didn't do that kind of storytelling all by himself: not only did he get a series of bullet points from the filmmakers of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker about where the character's story was going to be at the end of the saga, but his outline and dialogue had to be submitted to the Lucasfilm Story Group, who vet every detail of every story that takes place within the Star Wars Universe.

"Any significant change in Star Wars, that isn't just a little shade of a character that we know really well, it's vetted to make sure that it feels like Star Wars, that it fits within the Star Wars Universe, that it balances within the story universe, and that isn't in conflict with the Story Group. So you're in this weird game of chess with invisible chess players, you can't see the moves, and the only people who have a sense of the board, are not really playing it with the story.

 

Ehh, controversial's a good thing at this point. TLJ's controversial, that's more of what I'm wanting, being in the "love" camp with that one.

 

Considering how the flashbacks were one the most controversial part of the movie, I imagine the circumstances behind this event will be just as controversial. TROS should show something significant because we don't know Kylo's motivations beyond him saying he wanted to finish what Vader started and then kill the past in TLJ and movies should be able to stand on their own so showing this particular plot point in comic may or may not work in the long term.

 

TLJ was the worst kind of subversion, so no, im afraid of that type of controversial.

 

As a guy that's fine with "controversial" things, I agree with you.

The problem with TLJ is that it was made by a guy who, I'm sorry to say, seems like a contrarian. He was "disappointed" by ESB last I heard and even said that he likes to do things that "divide" people. Now, folks, there's a difference between making controversial stuff and PURPOSEFULLY making controversial stuff. One is nothing more than trolling and provoking people based on their more baser feelings, the other is simply having a difference of opinion against what could be considered mainstream and going from there. I just don't trust that Rian Johnson made the movie thinking that he just wanted to make a good experience "for everyone." And what I think Star Wars needs more than ever right now is an experience that's "for everyone," something that's easy for everyone to get into.

That, and I don't want to get political, but it feels like Rian Johnson was just doing what alt-right trolls usually do, which is to simply say or do something to get a reaction without any substance to it...

 

He said he was disappointed by ESB but it slowly grew to be his favourite one.

HelloGreedo on youtube put together a video of early ESB and its really interesting to see how people reviewed the film at the time compared to now.

 

I think people often misunderstand what Rian Johnson means when he intends on making 'controversial' films. He doesn't intend to 'troll' people, but rather make a film that has a distinct point of view and he knows not all will agree, but he'd rather that than it trading in vagaries. Might not have been the best choice for a blockbuster, but it seems to completely misunderstand what he means to say it's just to get a reaction without substance.

 

No people don't misunderstand him. He failed to deliver the message he wanted to deliver.

 

I'm talking speaking specifically about him consciously making controversial films and people thinking he intends to troll.

 

Controversial:
Luke being broken on an island because of things that happened in the past 30 years that led him to decide to stay out of the fight
Not controversial but trolling/unlogic:
Luke throwing a lightsaber like a 12 year old and behaving like a coward after facing Vader and the Emperor all alone.

Controversial:
Kylo after watching Snoke shooting at Leia's planet struggling to shoot at her ship.
Not controversial but trolling/unlogic:
Kylo, moments later telling Rey it's ok that the escape pods with Leia get destroyed and throwing around slapstick Hugs.

He tried to show a Rey / Kylo connection, but he missed that Kylo was already a total weird psycho maniac in TFA. Except giving him a more "redeemable" logic undertone in TLJ he keeps him going on as the crazy psycho (see Leia example above)
If his intention was to show a developing Kylo's / Rey's character connection as plausible option for a controversial development of the story, he failed by (intentionally or not) hanging on the psycho weirdo Kylo arc.
For me this is what makes the Rey Kylo connection look outlandish and not controversial. It further keeps JJ now from any course correction as this would look even more far fetched.

 

Which...was there not even just before Rian was hired, but before J.J. was hired.

Take it up with George.

 

Imho, the question is not whether he was intentionally trolling (operating in bad faith) but whether he wanted to be provocative and failed to deliver his message. For example, Holdo is supposed to channel a feminist perspective and Rose is supposed to deliver social justice commentary, but because Rian Johnson wrote them as stereotypical cliches they feel more like unintentional satire than provide challenges for the audience. It gets worse when it's done at the expense of other characters, Finn especially, who become the butts of bad jokes and clueless receptors for hamfisted bromides. Does that qualify as trolling? Maybe, maybe not, but it's not good filmmaking in any case.

 

Um I think you misunderstood his post.

The first option "controversial" vs second option "trolling".

He was saying that scenario in itself wasn't meaninglessly trolling.

I agree with him.

To me many of the choices in TLJ were done just for shock value.
Luke being defeated and depressed (JJ's setup) isn't automatically a horrible choice for the story. But it was executed pretty crudely Imo.
He didn't have to be written that selfish... this is Luke "I care" Skywalker

 

You can think some of his decisions weren't very good, which I actually agree with, but that doesn't mean it was an intentional troll. I think it's obvious that RJ thought what he was doing was best for the film. Apart from perhaps the lightsaber throw I don't think RJ did anything that was just to troll the audience.

 

The shot that looks like the Slave 1 landing then turns out to just be a clothes iron was pretty trolly... although that was just humour I admit.

The ironic moment where Finn and Rose triumphantly spot the master codebreaker, start moving towards him, then are tasered and thrown in a cell for a parking violation? Kind of trolling.

And maybe this is vague, but the cave mirror scene pretending you are going to see Rey's parents and getting nothing... grr. But I guess we know how Rey feels there tbh.

Also Holdo's main subversion - that she had a plan all along. RJ purposely misdirected the audience to think she was a coward, to set up that the audience later realises we should have trusted the authority of a woman. Which is fine in concept but it makes no sense for the characters that Holdo wouldn't let Poe in on this earlier. And 90% of the audience wouldn't have a problem with Holdo until RJ purposely implied she isn't noble just to later go "gotcha". It seems a bit cheap.

 

I think there was some intentional trolling on RJ’s part, though I do think it was minimal. But more than trolling the audience, I think he was primarily trolling the TFA script and SW lore when he did it. Any trolling, however, was bad writing. He shouldn’t have indulged any desire to troll whatsoever.

I would definitely put the lightsaber toss as a troll move. And again, I don’t think he was trolling the audience there. That moment made a mockery of the TFA story, on purpose, for laughs. I think he saw it as light hearted subversive trolling, but still.

I also think the stuff about the Jedi being terrible with no pushback from Rey besides acting like saving Vader was the best thing any Jedi ever did was a troll. It was so OTT negative toward the core lore of SW, and the history of the gffa. It wasn’t just negative, it was condescending and derisive toward that history, like we (and Leia in TFA) were all idiots for thinking the Jedi were good for anything besides saving Vader. I get that the ending was a sort of half assed attempt to change that, but in comparison it comes off so disingenuous. Luke didn’t actually accomplish anything. He saved a few lives, and the galaxy still fell. RJ’s heart really felt like it was in crapping on the Jedi and blaming them for everything.

I don’t think Luke’s arc was a troll, but I don’t think it was deep the way some interpreted it. I think everything about Luke was written the way it was solely for the benefit of how RJ wanted to write Kylo. Kylo’s story was not a troll at all. That was where RJ’s focus was. If I’m looking for RJ’s core as a SW writer, I’m looking at what he did with Kylo, RJ’s version of the Everyman lol.

 

The idea that Rian Johnson was trolling anybody while making a 300 million dollar movie seems sort of absurd to me. Especially considering how not-seriously he seems to take internet feedback. You can see him looking at twitter in "The Director and the Jedi" and he doesn't seem particularly concerned with what he's reading. He's laughing at it and moving onto the task of getting a Star Wars movie in on time, under-budget, and without any of the calamities that beset both The Force Awakens and Rogue One.

Would he care enough to goof around on twitter once the movie is over? Obviously.
Would he care enough during the movie to literally write, film, and keep in the edit "trolls" of people on Disney's dime while also trying his best to make an artistically satisfying movie expected to gross at least 1.5 billion worldwide? I highly doubt it.

The idea that he's going out of his way to "troll" people with his filmmaking decisions doesn't track. I understand people not liking the movie. I don't understand people thinking the decisions made were part of a spiteful impulse to stick it to people on a personal level. That seems like a bit much to me.

 

Yeah I wouldn't consider any of this trolling.

 

I agree that the lightsaber toss was 100% trolling. It was the cathartic cliffhanger of TFA, the most anticipated moment of TLJ by far and he turned it into a joke. It might actually be the biggest instance of trolling in cinema for the last 10 years, I can't think of anything that compares lol.

There's also a lot of trolling on the part of characters. Poe trolls Hux, Luke trolls Rey, DJ trolls Rose, etc, etc.

Idk, I think that if anything, TD&TJ showed that he enjoys reading what the internet says about him and delights in poking people's sensibilities.

 

Because it...is.

 

Rian trolling, he nice joke.

 

My opinion is it wasnt trolling, just bad execution.
ST writers (JJ, Kasdan, RJ especially) made surprisingly poor job at representing their ideas to the audience.
Like, i know what RJ wanted to tell us that Luke isnt in the mood we expected to see, but his execution of that idea was amateur to say the least. He didnt know where lies the line of no crossing. He crossed it.

Luke taking that lightsaber and then slowly giving it back to Rey. Rey looks slightly worried by that, we too. Then we cut back to Luke and Rey sitiing in his hut. AND thats where he makes *good writter* emotional speech about how he doesnt want anything, starting at low point but becoming bitter and irritated in the process of dialogue, that shocks Rey and us.

That would serve the same purpose but without trashing the cliffhanger of TFA and insulting out memory of Luke's character.