Saga Least favorite film of the Saga and Why?

I disagree. He is unable to understand why Rian would see Luke's character differently than he does. It's a difference of opinion, but one he can't maneuver around. So, he applies his own reasoning to Rian, assuming that he also sees things his way, and then works to create a reason why he would defy that reason, I.E. his conspiracy theory. Instead of simply saying "I don't like The Last Jedi and don't agree with Rian's characterization" he instead insisted on and continued to backup "I don't like The Last Jedi and think Rian tried to intentionally destroy the franchise".

 

I explained why Rian's logic doesn't work for Luke in here;

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/st-criticism-discussion-thread.50049419/page-840#post-55680007

Rian fails to give a proper explanation on why he actually did that.

 

You're... kinda just proving my point. Instead of acknowledging that someone has a different point of view, you point to an argument you made that shows, in your opinion, why he cannot hold that view.

 

If King Arthur's and Luke's situations were similar, then yes. I would've acknowledged his different point of view.

But it's not, which is why I can't acknowledge his different point of view.

 

See, that's the problem here. How can anyone talk about anything if you just outright to refuse that other people can even have different viewpoints from yours? I mean, I really like Luke from The Last Jedi. Am I secretly a Star Wars Hater that's just trying to push the franchise down a pit because I have a viewpoint that you are seemingly incapable of acknowledging that people can have without evil ulterior motives?

 

I didn't say that.

That's all my opinion that Rian didn't know what he was doing with Luke's character in TLJ.

 

Stop backtracking on your comments. Multiple times through this thread, you've alluded to RJ intentionally mistreating TLJ. You've continually stated that you don't acknowledge how he can have the point of view that he does. And with those two things in mind, how am I to believe that you even take my opinion or the opinions of anyone else who likes the movie seriously when apparently the movie I enjoy was the machination of a man intent on damaging the Star Wars franchise holding views that you don't even consider valid to have?

 

Not sure what your point is. I didn't take a quote from you nor I said you can't like TLJ. I just answered your questions. If you like TLJ that's your opinion.

 

I don't recall Erkan ever mentioning anything about Rian intentionally doing anything. He merely said Rian tried to destroy the franchise. Wether Erkan thinks he tried to do it consciously or not is up to debate, along with the statement that he tried to do it in the first place. But it's all opinion, his opinion, which we are free to agree or disagree. Doesn't mean he tried to wallpaper his beliefs over anyone.

 

My point is basically that your mindset is unsustainable if you want to actually talk about TLJ with people who enjoy it. Although, looking back, that is kind of getting off track.

Tried implies a conscious decision. If I tried to do a pull up, we wouldn't be having a debate about whether I was trying to do said pullup consciously or unconsciously.

My point was that he wallpapered his beliefs over Rian Johnson's beliefs, as shown in this post from him:

The entire argument essentially boils down to a bunch of assumptions and viewpoints directly from Erkan that are being applied to RJ, even though there is no evidence that he shares those opinions.

 

Oh, Kylo. My bad lol.

 

Maybe we can table the question of if TLJ did right by the characters or not? It's all be done before and we're still at square one.

 

TFA for me. What a bland underwhelming opening to the ST. Empire 2.0 and Rebels 2.0 with a Death Star 3 was not something I needed. Very awkward character "development" and an entire marketing campaign of #REALSW and I was already soured before the movie.

 

It's either a toss-up between The Force Awakens or The Last Jedi.

The Force Awakens because a lot of the problems of the sequel trilogy were started right there and then, such as the rehashing of elements from the OT, the Kylo Ren man-child as a villain, the (mostly) useless character Finn, etc. The problem with J.J. Abrams is that he works on nostalgia, which isn't too bad, but he takes it to the point where it cuts down on the creativity. Aside from that, the movie could've set up the lore of the time-period yet it didn't.

The Last Jedi had the problems of The Force Awakens but compounded them. The reason why I don't outright think that TLJ was worse than TFA is because some of the problems are simply problems from the first movie (such as the uninspired world-building and the character of Kylo Ren). The film could've still salvaged a lot of the aspects of the sequel trilogy but it failed to and even made them worse in my eyes. On top of that, Luke spending the entire trilogy on some boring-looking planet moping before showing his mettle near the end wasn't something I really cared to see. Him dying shortly after that brief moment of cool was even more annoying.

I wouldn't mind if someone helped me out here because it's actually hard to say which movie I dislike more. Is it TFA where the problems began or is it TLJ that continued the problems when it could've still righted the ship?

 

I suppose Attack of the Clones and The Last Jedi are currently tied for my least favorite. I have a lot of issues with the main plot (that being the love story) in Attack, and equally a lot of issues with the sub-plots in Last Jedi. The two are yin and yang for me, in a sense.

 

You have me curious and interested. Care to explain the whys and hows?

 

Revenge of the Sith

because it's almost a total downer compared to the others

 

ANH and ESB are my favorites. Just trying to keep it positive.

 

Certainly! So, before Last Jedi was released, I would say that Attack was definitely my least favorite. Just the sheer fact alone that they decide to send Amidala to her home world when she’s trying to be killed pretty much breaks the whole movie for me. That and the fact that the whole attempting-to-murder-her plot pretty much dissolved into thin air by the end of the movie. There is still a lot of pulpy fun in the movie that I enjoy, but overall it feels like the most “hollow” of them all to me thus far (I think).

When Last Jedi did finally come out, things got a little confusing for me. I love the main story in Last Jedi (as in Luke, Kylo, Rey, and Snoke), as well as the opening sequence and pretty much everything that happens on Crait at the end. However, all of the other elements of the film cause it to “drag” for me. I don’t necessarily “hate” any of it (I don’t hate any starwars movie at all, really), but I can certainly do without that stuff (mutiny, canto bight, etc.).

I found a fan edit of the movie that takes out everything I disliked and leaves in everything that I did like. I enjoy this particular fan version so much that it has almost made the real version unwatchable for me. So, if I can count fan edits (a topic which itself is debatable), then I suppose the real version of the movie becomes my least favorite. But if I cannot count fan edits, then who’s to really say if it truly is my least favorite or not? Fan edits are already a very touchy subject as is, so all bets are pretty much off the moment you factor them in.

Then there’s Rogue One, which I also go back and forth on a lot... like I said, I don’t hate any of the movies. Each one has something I can enjoy, so my feelings on almost all of them tend to fluctuate a lot.

 

I'm wondering if I should move Solo to the bottom of my list considering I only saw it once in theaters and have yet to watch it at home since then. Just don't have a huge desire to.

It's not a bad movie by any means, just doesn't seem to have a lot of rewatch appeal.

 

That is exactly my take on Solo.

 

Never had a problem with that one way or the other (except for the poor acting in those scenes). What about it didn't work for you?

I guess that I thought her getting caught on Geonosis kinda resolved it (Jango Fett had been hired to do her in and he was part of the capture party). I can see the point, though, that it was more of narrative pretext to get her and Anakin alone for the love story then anything else.

I can get that; I do like watching it, but it is my least favorite of the live action stuf.

Fair enough. I actually liked the Canto Bight stuff, since allowed for breaks from the more serious Force stuff on the island and I did like Finn and Rose doing stuff. The mutiny was something I didn't exactly love (although Poe is the new character I'm probably least invested in), although I didn't have a problem with it.

Personally, I don't have a problem with fan edits in and of themselves, even if I don't really watch them myself.

I really liked that one myself; liked the more serious story and characters (even if a lot of them were more thinly drawn), and the recreations of the ANH styles of props and all that. Takes all types, though.

I get that. I don't hate any of them myself and do like rewatching them, although my thoughts of where I stand on them are actually pretty "stable," for whatever reason.

 

The Amidala thing didn’t work for me cause it doesn’t make sense for someone to go hide at their home world (in open view, at that) when they’re being hunted. It’s a big galaxy, go hide somewhere random. Don’t go hide literally the first place they’d think to go check.