Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DBPirate, May 10, 2020.
The OT, with the exception of ROTJ, Rogue One...and The Holiday special, of course.
The obvious choice for me is VIII but IX is even worse. Sidious revealing his plan too early so the rebel fleet arrives just in time is so bad.Other things which are truly horrible are Sidious using no lightsaber. Or ships with death star lasers.Which are destroying an insignificant planet.Or the KOR which are severely underused.
But Luke in VIII is still the worst. The hero of the OT abandoning the Jedi Way. And returns only after billions of lifes are lost.This is inexcusable. I'm sorry but I don't consider the ST canon.
OT; Return of the Jedi (it had so much potential, but failed on almost every level). PT; The Phantom Menace (complete and utter crap). ST; The Last Jedi (all of the sequel trilogy films are bad, but TLJ almost needs a new word to describe how awful it is).
You and I often see eye-to-eye, but I think TPM is probably the best of the PT simply by default.
Agreed. In its favor, it has QGJ, the only PT character I really like, and it does not have Hayden Christensen. I really, really don't like his version of Anakin. Also, the 3 way saber fight is the only PT saber action that doesn't make me roll my eyes at how ridiculously over-the-top/stupidly choreographed it is.
Qui-Gon and Watto make the movie for me.
I'm leaning toward TROS just because how much crap it manages to cram into one film, but I guess TLJ and TROS are pretty much tied for worst for me. Yes, TFA pressed the reset button and that sucks, but it was still only the tip of the iceberg. The latter two did the most damage to the saga, IMO.
Solo would at least be bearable if not for the weird and cringey choices for the characters, the acting, and the uncomfortable innuendos. And L3. Just... ugh, L3.
Still TFA. It's just so sterile and unimaginative. It's as if an AI were programmed to take the most iconic parts of Star Wars and forced to make a contemporary action movie based on them. TLJ may have had even lower lows, but it at least had some interesting choices. TRoS I haven't seen.
If I ignore the Sequels as a whole, ROTJ. I hate the lines ("Together again, huh?" "Wouldn't miss it." "What's the situation?" "Oh, same as usual." "That bad, huh?" Harrison delivers it badly, too), and I TOLERATE Jar Jar; I HATE Ewoks. The ending is good, but if there were no Preqs Sheev would be the worst, most stereotypical villain in history. At least in ROTS he has some depth. I accept others opinions, so please don't hate on me.
Harrison's heart was no longer in it, and that shows in many scenes. In several interviews he said he would have preferred Han to die in ROTJ or even ESB. But of course Lucas wouldn't have any of that.
And yes, in ROTJ the Emperor is a very stereotypical villain. Without the prequels, he is just that, a villain. But in the prequels we see he was actually a very popular and well-liked politician. In the OT he has no background or motivation at all, same as Vader.
I've changed my vote to The Rise of Skywalker. It's strange... I find it incredibly entertaining to watch. It's a very fun, very watchable movie, and C-3PO is at his absolute best. The action is good, the designs and worlds are cool, all that is fine. And although I find the final few minutes emotionally satisfying and cathartic, I find the film itself a bit empty as a concluding chapter.
It lacks the efficiency of Return of the Jedi or the operatic pomp of Revenge of the Sith, and in comparison to the other two films in the ST, it can't introduce its characters in a breezy, fun story like TFA, nor can it really play on expectations like TLJ. Instead, it reintroduces Palpatine in a way that is entirely unearned, which the entire movie awkwardly hinges on.
I don't discount it as canonical or anything. For better and worse, this is the conclusion to the Skywalker saga, and although it's not a fantastic ending, that's fine. It doesn't do anything to betray the themes, story, or characters, a la the Game of Thrones finale, and thus doesn't really damage the preceding story in any way. It just doesn't end it in the most exceptional fashion, and... honestly, that's okay.
I agree with a lot of this. I love it as a Star Wars movie, just not a THE LAST of the saga.
Every sequel trilogy film. They broke Star Wars in half. A tri-abomination.
It’s a tossup between TROS and ROTS for me, because as the final films in their uneven trilogies, they were burdened with stickin the landing, for making the story of their trilogy worth it, and both fall way short of what they ought to have been.
I get for a lot of people ROTS was a marked improvement over the previous two, but to me it’s still nowhere near enough. For every one thing the story does right, it does another thing wrong. And some parts are worse than the previous two entries (art direction, production design, and some performances and dialogue)
But RoTS fares better because at least the overall story it’s telling, Vaders origin, is inherently strong and purposeful to the saga (once you get past the fact that the PT removed a lot of the mystique of the OT, with incredibly small universe syndrome), whereas TROS truly leaves you wondering why the ST was added to the saga at all.
If we’re including tv shows, Book of Boba Fett takes the crown, along with all the Filoni animated shows, despite having a few nuggets of quality worldbuilding here and there.
Does it have anything to do with the same letters being in the abbreviation for both movies?
It’s like poetry. It rhymes
-Worst visuals of any Star Wars film.
-Didn't like how the romance was handled.
-One of the weakest scores of the saga, but admittedly still great.
-The duel with Dooku is one of my least favorites in the saga. It just gets worse as it goes on. The Obi-Wan part is fine, the Anakin part is pretty dumb at times with the darkness and flashing colors around the end, the Yoda part (once he pulls out his saber) makes me cringe.
AOTC is admittedly more relevant as a whole to the saga than TPM, but that doesn't mean I prefer it over TPM.
Rise of Skywalker. And believe it or not, I haven't even watched the movie- I did read about the plot, watch plenty of clips, and watch some review videos, though, which were enough to dissuade me from watching the rest of the movie. I was very disappointed in the story, overall. The character arcs were horrible, the plot was the exact same as the original trilogy... it just didn't feel good enough to even count it as part of the story.
I think Disney did fine with Rebels and the Clone Wars shows (although there were some disappointments there too), but they really messed up with the sequals.
As for the characters, I have to say that Rey is my least favorite (please don't misunderstand me; I'm not against women who use weapons or go on adventures! I just don't like it when people think they have to prove how strong women are. Men and women are different and are designed to do different things). Rey is one of Disney's ways to push feminism. Period. At least from what I've seen, she has no other details to her character, which I think is really sad.
When a writer gives up the most basic foundations that go into writing a good story (which is good, well-developed characters) and replace it with political propaganda, then the story suffers- big time!
And with Palpatine's return... oh boy. I couldn't believe it when I heard that, because it opens up so many plotholes! Why is PaIpatine's own Granddaughter the death of him, not a Skywalker? It also dwarfs Anakins victory over him in TROTJ. In my opinion, he did die, and the sequals were just a bad dream that Luke had one night during the time that he was rebuilding the Jedi Order.
So yep, that's my opinion of TROS. Also, sorry for the long post- I somehow get into ranting mode whenever I talk about the sequal trilogy lol.
Maybe try watching the movie, you're opinion might change.
I think the worst by far is The Rise of Skywalker because I don’t think any part of it works on any level, although I have the most disdain for The Force Awakens and the short-sighted thought process behind it which I think crippled the sequel trilogy’s potential from the outset.
I find it problematic to judge a book by its cover, without reading the book.
Exactly, watch the film it'll only take 2 hours of you're time.
I think feminism is a good thing to push. Disney just didn't tell a good story in the process, or write a good protagonist.
(Still TLJ for me. Not a good standalone story or part of its own trilogy, let alone the larger saga).
I have a feeling that in a few years the sequels will be appreciated a lot more, just like what happened with the prequels.