Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DBPirate, May 10, 2020.
TFA was 2015
True, my bad! I did see it late December 2015. I start to mix up years because in that stupid pandemic every year now seems almost the same, without any significant events to make them memorable. I know 15 was pre-pandemic, still...
The fact that ROTS through ROTJ have the least votes tells me that the core of Star Wars is the rise of Darth Vader to his redemption in ROTJ.
If Disney really wants to hit the core of Star Wars they should do movies like Rogue One when Darth Vader was still around.
Shadows of the Empire would be a nice one if they ever decided to go there.
My least favorite would be between atoc and ptm, but if I were to choose, I would choose Atoc because it left like George wanted a story that's broad like in the sense of thrawn/dark empire but just swung too hard and missed it should've been more of a contained story until like the third movie.
The Rise of Skywalker is without a doubt the worst Star Wars movie as far as I’m concerned. The plot makes no sense, the return of Palpatine makes no sense and the movie contradicts literally everything that has been established in the previous movies, not only in the Prequels and the Originals, but even in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. If The Rise of Skywalker had been a good movie, then I would have been able to accept the Sequel Trilogy despite the flaws of The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. But that movie has vanished any chance for me to take the ST seriously in the context of the Star Wars universe.
The Force Awakens, for being a droll rehash of ANH, and being the poisonous seed that sprouted the awful ST.
Despite being very aware I was watching a remake during TFA, it still managed to be exciting and carry the pacing well. For TROS, I found myself enjoying it a little more during subsequent rewatches. For the most part, it was doing what it could with the less than favorable circumstances it was presented with. I'm giving my vote to TLJ. I was in disbelief at being let down by a Star Wars movie like that. It wasn't enough to sever as many ties to the OT characters as possible, but to disrespect them as well. Luke was destroyed and built up in the same film when he was already MIA for an entire film. By the time he returned to some semblance of where he was in ROTJ: boom, dead. My hype for TROS just sunk.
If I could, I'd choose the entire ST. I can't, so I'll go with TFA, for being so dull, so dreadfully derivative, and for setting such a bad path for the trilogy. The ST was DOA the moment JJ was hired, it never had a chance, it could never have been saved. My last hope for renewed interest in Star Wars died with it.
Have people forgotten that the non-trilogy movies even exist?
TROS, not because of the viewing experience per se, because there's fun to be had there, like a mindless rollercoaster. Rather, it's because of how it just throws the purpose of the ST out the window, and makes the OT worse.
Yes, TFA was the film that took away the 'happily ever after' ending, turning our heroes into failures and all that, but with more films in the trilogy, there was always hope that by the end, it would have been worth it in some way, that the trilogy might have a meaningful narrative about history repeating itself, about failure, despair and the futility of war vs hope and the power of legends, and all that (which for all its faults, TLJ really helped to outline). But TROS just throws that all the window, turning the ST back into a paper thin retread of the OT, giving the characters the same struggles, dealing with the exact same themes, and thus retroactively damaging the OT by just cutting and pasting the victory onto new characters without emphasizing the "why" of it all.
The first post in the thread clarifies that it only refers to the saga movies.
Also, and I could be wrong about this, but I think a poll has a maximum of 10 options.
So it would have to include only one movie out of the 3 that have been left out. Which one would be the lucky one?
Six, not 3. Solo, Rogue One, The Star Wars Holiday Special, Ewoks: Caravan of Courage, Ewoks: The Battle for Endor, and the The Clone Wars movie.
They did say the poll could be edited if there was enough demand. Rogue One might qualify enough as the most "mainstream" of the "non-Saga" movies, to get on the poll.
I would say 5 then, as I indeed forgot about the Ewoks movies (which I haven't watched yet.... need to get around to doing that). There is still a valid reason that disqualifies the Ewoks movies, since they were produced and initially released on TV. And I guess it would also disqualify The Holiday Special. But not Rogue One and SOLO.
The Clone Wars is an animated movie, and it is essentially a 4 episodes arc that got a theatrical release, I don't agree that it should be included in the poll.
Not a good enough criterion, SOLO has the same case to make it to the poll
And the Holiday Special has a solid case to win the poll
Though personally I would still keep my vote on TLJ, even if all 6 projects you mention were added.
Getting a theatrical release at all, can make something a "film". Even something that doesn't get a theatrical release, but goes "straight to video" can be called a film under the right circumstances.
I am not arguing the definition of the word "film" anywhere.
Establishing criteria for which movies should go into that poll is not very hard.
I think the topic creator did great. And no other movie should be included.
The poll says "least favorite Star Wars film". None of the Ewok movies have "Star Wars" anywhere in the titles or subtitles. So how can they count as Star Wars movies? Set in the same universe, yes. Using some of the characters or a location from an actual SW movie, yes. But that doesn't make them valid as SW in any way.
Some say that Blade Runner is set in the Alien universe. It may be, and it may be not, but it certainly isn't Alien canon, any more than AVP is, no matter what Ridley Scott says. Anyway, he isn't even the creator of Blade Runner, Philip K. Dick is, and we can no longer ask him.
IMO the Ewok movies can safely be left out. We might as well also count E.T.. After all someone wears a Yoda mask, the Yoda theme is played, and we supposedly (haven't seen it myself) see one of E.T.'s species in TPM.
It gets very complicated when we count everything that is somehow set in some kind of "universe". Then technically, EVERY story or movie set on Earth would be the same universe. Meaning we can safely count Jaws as Godfather canon etc.? Theoretically, it's entirely possible that both Don and Michael Corleone and Chief Brody co-exist on the same island at roughly the same time. But I don't think it works that way.
Our main cast of characters hasn't really learned anything from the last two films. Our three main characters go through less emotional development than Chewbacca or C3-P0. Combine this with the weird super ADHD map quest that makes up the middle of the film and end it with a confusing, unsatisfying fight between a great villain and a terrible hero.
I would say The Last Jedi was the movie that kind of broke my link towards Star Wars and I became somewhat indifferent towards most of the recent Star Wars content made by Disney (like I've never paid attention to The Mandalorian before I heard Luke came back in the show).
I was really looking forward to this movie since I've heard positive comments and opinions towards Rian Johnson and how he will be more ambitious towards the story line of the ST after the fact that The Force Awakens was some kind of soft remake of A New Hope. My hype towards TLJ was also due to the fact that I was really impressed by Rogue One in 2016, and how the movie makers seem more ambitions. And I was really looking forward to the character arcs of the new heroes and villains after they've been introduced (like "who's Rey?", "Could she be a young Jedi youngling that has lost her memory after a tragedy?", "What about Finn?", "Could he become a Jedi since he has handled a lightsaber against Kylo?", "Who's Snoke?", "Why Luke was in exile?", "What is the state of the galaxy after the fall of the Empire", etc.).
But then all of this was subverted, and somewhat all the questions that people asked themselves after watching TFA didn't matter apparently. This was further demonstrated after The Rise of Skywalker was released. But there were already some warning signs that fans should have paid more attention before TLJ was realeased since it was further confirmed by Rian Johnson that there were no plans after VII, and Lucas' story treatment were rejected by Disney after the purchase of Star Wars in 2012.
You know, I was looking back on this thread. And I ran across a post I made only about six months after seeing TROS. In that post, I talked about how much I really enjoyed the film and was surprised at how others were so critical of it.
Now, cut to more than two years later...And honestly, my impression of it has changed now! I do still maintain that there are some very entertaining moments in there-some of my favorite in the saga actually. However, now everytime I watch or think about it now, it's hard not to focus on all the missed opportunities and elements that really could've made TROS better. Kind of takes me out of the film these days.
It seems TROS did not have "staying power" for me, unfortunately.
TLJ for me. The fact that I watched TROS trailer once, after watching TFA trailer dozens of times should tell you something.
TLJ, its just a boring movie thats just the OJ car chase in space.
This poll has AotC rated higher than TFA...
AOTC is better than TFA.
Im surprised ATOC is not the highest ranked. Im ok with this movie like some parts still. But it is still cringe. I enjoyed the other movies mutch more.