Saga Least favorite Star Wars film and Why (Revised)

Did TFA really need to “set up questions,” though? For as much as it copies ANH, one thing that clearly separates them is that ANH wasn’t loaded with mystery boxes that would obviously lead to unsatisfying answers. But TFA seems to use nostalgia and mystery boxes as a means of deflecting away from the story it’s REALLY telling, which is that Luke is a self-exiled, jaded hermit now.

The only other “angle” I can see is that he was waiting there for the new “chosen one” to arrive a la Kenobi and Yoda in the OT, but that would only make the ST even more similar to what’s come before (something we really don’t need) and it still wouldn’t explain why Luke cut off contact and didn’t say exactly where he was going.

But we can agree to disagree.

 

Luke could have shown how he learned his lesson from ESB, that running to save his friends and following his immediate feelings sometimes does more bad than good. He could be waiting to see the bigger picture through the Force before acting. Again, there are plenty of things he could have been doing other than precisely nothing.

 

There are many stories that could explain why Luke was on the island. Remember Han say that Luke was going to look for first Jedi Temple? So why not a story that he has to find it or guard it or stop these bad guys finding it? Instead it was just a hollow out tree with old books in it. That is unsatisfying but it didn't have to be the only reason Luke hide on the island.

 

I don't mind TFA having mystery boxes. It's a sequel and the seventh film in the saga. ANH was the first. That's a big, big difference.

And as others have said, there were lots of possibilities about Luke. I mean come on, Disney brought back Palpatine out of nowhere. I'm sure they could've thought of some other reason for why Luke's not around.

 

I could list 4 reasons off the top of my head. Luke runs away at first, but
1. His x wing crashes. You need parts to fix a ship. See phantom menace.
2. He is captured and held prisoner by a darksider.
3. He is perfecting something that will enable him to defeat Snoke.
4. He is teaching students in secret.

 

None of what you guys are suggesting sounds compelling or organic to me, but at this point I’ll just accept that it’s a matter of my own personal taste, and leave it at that.

 

Luke failing and being an unhelpful hermit jerk that does nothing sounds like the opposite of compelling and organic to me.

 

I still see that as more of a TFA thing than a TLJ thing, but okay.

 

Again, TLJ is the film that portrayed him that way, not TFA. TFA offered the setup and mystery, which could've gone in multiple directions. That's the point that's been repeated over and over:There were other possibilities after TFA. It's like saying if you hated the twin sister reveal in RotJ, you should blame that on ESB more because it has a line about "another".

 

One of the things the critics probably liked about TLJ is it did not go in the predictable directions TFA led it towards.

 

Well I also think ESB is overrated, for what it’s worth, but I guess that’s neither here nor there.

 

I'd rather see what Lucas would've done with the ST. It would be great of they decided to produce an alternate ST - The Lucas Edition.

 

Indeed, and had a stronger character arc, even if sections of the fanbase were turned off by it.

 

I would describe The Rise of Skywalker as the most disrespectful Star Wars film for numerous reasons.

• It undoes Anakin's prophecy by retroactively having Palpatine/the Sith survive.
• It continues the sequel trilogy's trend of invalidating Luke, Leia and Han's achievements.
• It doesn't even respect the last two movies; things are retconned left, right and centre.
• It ends the Skywalker family and leaves their legacy to a Palpatine ("Rey Skywalker" is completely unearned).
• The state of the galaxy feels less certain than it did after ROTJ's ending.

 

I just pick this post for presenting a different perspective on these points.

I am like: Who cares for this prophecy? Who cares (that much) for Anakin (that he has to be the permanent hero in this case)?

In my opinion it does the opposite: Poe Dameron: "What our mothers and fathers fought for, must not die. Not today." The post-ROTJ-state which was achieved under big sacrifices during the OT has to be restored respectively saved. For me this super works and makes the legacy of the OT-3 even bigger. Also Han's death wasn't for nothing because his forgiving to his son made a spark of light growing in Ben so he could be turned. So in the end Han saved his son - just as he (kind of) promised Leia in TFA. Beautifully executed. Leia herself dies at a leader and symbol of the Resistance to the very end. Luke inspired the fleet of free worlds to fight the last battle above Exegol - they just waited until the right moment of Lando giving the signal to pick them up.

Respect is relative. Retcons? But just a very few, right? Most of the so-called retcons I call "precizised aspects". For example Snoke's origin. Or example Rey's origin. In my opinion TROS literally upgrades the previous two movies, especially TLJ.

I also found it a bit sad that they are gone now. But better like this than the old EU's way with dozens and dozens of family members in a never ending family tree which makes the names Skywalker or Solo....random. Now it came full circle with them being buried on Tatooine (I don't care if they liked the planet - that's where people connect them to). To make a Palpatine carry on the Skywalker legacy was really brave and controversial but actually it breathes the spirit of Star Wars where compassion, redemption, trust and love win over anger, fear, prejustice and hate. I like it and it in its brave it honours the true essence of SW in my opinion. And "unearned"? I don't know...I think it was about this symbolical "choosing a camp" and she clearly decided for the Skywalkers (=Jedi) and against Palpatine (=Sith). I still don't get why people get so mad, confused and serious about this symbolism. Often sound a bit like "This Mary Sue just overcame my childhood hero Luke and even took his name!!" which doesn't lead to any good if you ask me.

Which is good in my opinion! Over years we had this image of the undefeatable OT-3 who saved the galaxy and everything is fairytale'ish and peaceful (except of some space vikings come and go mad). Now it's more realistic in my opinion: peace is just a phase between two wars and the next generation has to keep the peace up against new threats. Also I really liked the vibes at the end of Ajan Kloss. No big party but more relieved faces with sweat and blood on. Also less questions open which were given after ROTJ: Could Palpatine manage to cheat death which he was teasing in ROTS? What about the imperial remnants which had to be a lot? What did Obi-Wan mean with "I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine"? What about Luke being the last Jedi? And so on. Of course also now we could ask ourself "How will Rey manage to be the last Jedi?" or "Will Finn become a Jedi?" or "Is the New Republic more stabile this time?" but except of the questions which just "re-appeared" most of the questions were answered in a big epilogue-like ST. I want to believe that the galaxy learned that nothing is free, especially not freedom. So this time they will act against warlords and radicalized people and maybe renew the senate a bit. According Rey...hm...maybe she will take less students for the first. Maybe just one and then later another one and so on. I hope there will be a thousand years of peace. The galaxy deserves it.

 

A lot of people. And it's a major part of SW lore, so the writers should have too. This is exactly the kind of dismissive, biased attitude that people dislike about the ST.

 

Who established this? Sounds like a law or something. Also: "A prophecy that misread could have been.“ Furthermore I find it interesting that Palpatine's death cheating even overcame "fate" (= the ominous prophecy) and made everything even more tight.

Well, yes...the ST is nothing for people with certain expectations, that's true.

 

The guy who created Star Wars established it. And he confirmed it. And his films confirmed it. And the ST ignored it. So yeah, lots of people hate that and it's totally warranted.

"Certain expectations"... yeah, like not wanting the OT 3 to regress and get killed off and replaced, or not wanting the same struggles and failures to repeat themselves while slapping on a "well, history repeats itself, it's a neverending struggle for balance, see?" as a lazy excuse to justify it. I think those are reasonable expectations.

 

True, but it was a retcon to the OT, attempting to recontextualize what he had shown us 20 years earlier. A lot of us didn't like that and feel it was a detriment to the OT, which had stood on its own as a glorious success story for decades and didn't need or benefit from that kind of reinterpretation.

 

And?... It's still an important part of SW lore and shouldn't be ignored or retconned for the sake of glorifying a new protagonist. And no way you're convincing me that the Chosen One prophecy is anywhere as damaging and disrespectful to the saga and its characters than the things the ST did.

 

Fans can feel what they feel about the ST, but it didn't ingore or retconned the chosen prophecy, it just didn't explore it or add to it, Rey is just like any other jedi not named Skywalker, like Ezra, Grogu and Cal. Anakin Skywalker is still the chosen one. Rey defeated Palpatine with the jedi of the past help including Anakin. Some may not like it, but it didn't try to be disrepctful or try to gloryfy Rey.

 

It absolutely retconned it, with the lame "Bring balance, like I did" line by Anakin as their own acknowledgement of doing so. And the director trying to say "actually, bringing balance is this thing that happens over and over again, so it's OK that Rey's doing it too"... None of that was established before. So yeah, it's a retcon.

 

Small little retcon as new canon book says it can work trough him, but Anakin is still the chosen one brough the force back into balance, Rey helped keep it there. And bringing balacne to the force over and over again makes perfect sense where the dark side and the sith aere conncerned. I'm sure we will get jedi before the Phantom Menace who bring back balance and same with after Rise of Skywalker.

 

Agreed. Especially thanks to TROS there was no point to making the ST, as it repeated the ending of ROTJ in a severely inferior way and led nowhere meaningful.

 

The prophecy has been an unreliable narrator since RotS (“a prophecy that misread, could have been”).

Besides, we never even saw in the movies themselves what it says exactly. It can probably apply to Vader’s descendants just as much as it applies to Vader himself. And yes, that includes Kylo, as well as Rey as a “spiritual” descendant.