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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Legacy Family Trees

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Loclown, Aug 27, 2007.

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  1. saber_death

    saber_death Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2005
    well, Leia didn't exactly raise Jacen to be a Sith Lord/totalitation despot either... in both SW and RL, parent's ideals while raising a kid =/= their childern's ideals when they grow up.

    that being said, i kind of doubt Allana is part of the Fel family tree. though it would be cool if only to spite the Jag/Jaina shippers and IWoD crowd, since obviously Jag/Jaina's son/grandson isn't going to marry Allana or one of her daughters... or at least i sure hope not [face_worried]
     
  2. Furyan_Jedi_13

    Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 6, 2007
    Well, I've supported J/Z since YJK, so it's more of a case of "old habits die hard" for me. I'd still like to see them together, but I will agree that maybe he does need to show some initiative and backbone first. Maybe then, the fans will give him a break.

    And I think people just go for the whole "J/J start the dynasty" theory because to them, that's the simplest explanation, and it fits with what they want to see, and they just fill in the blanks themselves without realizing that the pieces don't exactly fit.

    As for the Allana/Fel theory, that could work, even with Allana being raised as being pro-GA. The GA-Imperial split eventually occurs a couple of generations down the track, and a lot can happen in that time. I mean, it's been a couple of generations since WWII, and most of us are fine with Germany now, aren't we?

    But as for Jaina, she made the decision to forget about love and focus on her duties, and the boys are probably just trying to keep her on her toes. In the short run, that's probably the best option.
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Oh, please, Katarn, let it be so.
     
  4. NelanisGhost

    NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Zekk's a cutie. But he's not right for Jaina. He obviously doesn't do it for her. And that's OK. I want him to end up with that pretty blond Fel sister. Joy for everyone.
     
  5. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    And yet, Tenel Ka has more "royal blood" than Jaina Solo. Heck, she's got more than Jag. Nevermind that at the "present" of the LotF novels, the Imperial Remnant is a pale shadow of its' former self. A Hapan alliance gives them considerably more clout than they have "at the moment." Sure they can discard them later, but the Hapans were powerful enough to insure they retained relative autonomy at the height of the Empire. They're a recognized political entity that's actually managed to hold onto what they control. More than can be said of the Empire.


    Minor galactic royalty really can't compare to a pan-galactic aristocracy, can they? Both the Skywalker and Fel families have a superior social status than any mere Hapan monarch.

    Autonomy really isn't all that much. The Empire left plenty of established groups in a position of self-governance. So long as order was maintained and the groups behaved themselves, it didn't matter.

    Further: the Remnant is not the Empire. Do not confuse the two. The Empire fell near the peak of its power.

    What the heck are you talking about? If your reading comprehension wasn't apparently ailing, you'd notice that my point was Skywalker ancestry is a topic that could and should reasonably have come up amidst the various meetings and comings and goings within "Legacy"....if it existed. Point out to me where a discussion of Sia's mother would be equally reasonable and logical within the context of the story so far? I'd imagine you'd have trouble. She's not relevant to the story (yet), whereas Skywalker ancestry clearly is.


    First off, try to maintain a civil tone of argument. Commenting on comprehension doesn't fly here.

    Second: the Fel ancestry would likely be common knowledge. If everyone's aware of it, they don't need to mention it repeatedly. Cade's ancestry is surprising--nobody knew about him. The Fels are public figures, on the other hand. We know that John and Jan are deliberately keeping the ancestry from us, and there's consequently no discussion of it.

    Presuming that said ancestry doesn't exist because it's not mentioned is an appeal to ignorance, i.e. it's a claim that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

    Why wouldn't he mention it if the ancestry was there, then? Why doesn't Roan Fel use the familial connection (however distant) to try to convince Cade to stick around? Cade says she should unite the Jedi and the Imperial Knights, but why not then spell out the (supposedly) critical reason why she should be the one to do it, if it relies on Skywalker ancestry in her family tree?


    Perhaps because it's already known?

    You cannot say definitively.
     
  6. QuentinGeorge

    QuentinGeorge Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2003
    And yet, Tenel Ka has more "royal blood" than Jaina Solo.

    I question that, since there's evidence to suggest that Jaina is a direct descendant of a monarch of an entire Core World sector, not the piddling pirate kingdom that the Hapans rule, which would make Jaina descended from Naboo, Alderaan and Corellian royalty.

    Tenel Ka is descended from a rogue Jedi, pirates, and some abducted nameless men and women.

    Now, Allana on the other hand...
     
  7. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2006
    This may change if Tenel Ka gets Padme'd at some point.
     
  8. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
     
  9. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Lord Vader's exalted position was such that descent from him is all that is required. Descent from Leia Organa as well is just icing on the cake.

    Compared to that, any possible benefit of adding Hapan blood to the mix is completely insignificent.
     
  10. Jmacq1

    Jmacq1 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    First, what "aristocracy" are your referring to? The multiple insurgent groups that the Skywalker/Solos keep finding themselves a part of? Leia Organa-Solo hasn't really held significant political power in quite some time, and Luke seems content to avoid his responsibilities as any sort of leader until he's absolutely forced to do otherwise.

    Further: The Remnant is virtually without a doubt what will grow to become the Empire we see in "Legacy." To claim that there is no link between the two defies reason. The Empire of "Legacy" didn't spring full-grown from Fel I's brow. There's over a century of build-up to the point we see in "Legacy" #1. A period in which political alliances of all shapes and sizes could and would have been very valuable to the re-burgeoning Empire.

    My apologies. It was uncalled for and undeserved.

    It's still not passing the basic logic test. If the Fels were descendants of the Skywalker-Solo line and everyone knew it, we'd see a lot more chatter from the Sith Lords about the potential for Roan Fel or Sia Fel to become a "rallying point" for the Jedi instead of simply an insurgent thorn in the usurper Darth Krayt's (That much we can agree on) side. The Sith seem concerned about Fel fighting an Imperial civil war. They seem concerned about him allying himself with the Galactic Alliance Remnants (turnabout is fair play I suppose), but they don't seem concerned about him (or his daughter) ending the apparent schism between the Imperial Knights and the Jedi.

    Given that the birthright and legacy of the Skywalker bloodline is by and large the central plot point of the series (hence the name), it flies in the face of common sense to have in-universe characters completely avoid mentioning that key element if they have some claim to it. Particularly if it's "common knowledge."

    You are correct however, in that I cannot say definitively...that's the reason these are theories and speculation instead of facts. It's entirely possible that John and Jan are having the characters avoid mentioning these key plot elements so as to reveal them further down the line. It's just going to seem (from an in-universe perspective) an awful lot like a "Well geez, you didn't think that was worth mentioning 20 issues ago?" sort of moment if the Fels do turn out to have "publicly known" Skywalker ancestry. Particularly if a sizable cluster of supposedly-intelligent characters that should have every reason to be deeply concerned about that kind of connection (The Moffs and the Sith), never thought to worry about it beforehand.

    Hence, unless the Fel ancestry is a mystery to the in-universe public (which seems unlikely), revealing later on down the line that the Fels are just as "Skywalker" as Cade as though it
     
  11. The_Pantless_Wookiee

    The_Pantless_Wookiee Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2007
    I agree completely, Zekk has spent most of his character-life being "the guy who likes Jaina" but he has great potential as a character seperate from her. Oh, and Zekk becoming Ben's master would be cool.
     
  12. Rouge77

    Rouge77 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 11, 2005
    I would not put much worth on the claim that if Jaina is the grand-mother of Roan, then this would have to be a largely known fact in 137 ABY, or that the his opponents would consider that it makes him a Skywalker, or that the Jedi would be ready to accept Marasiah as a Skywalker who would be able to lead them. I think that there might be an in-universe difference between a Skywalker and a person who is just descended from the Skywalkers. After all, in the case of Marasiah her last ancestor to really be identified as a Skywalker would be her great-great-great-grandfather Anakin Skywalker. It might feel to us that it makes her and her father Skywalkers too, but would the people that are responsible for Legacy share this belief and so make the people in-universe think so too? That is after all that counts.
     
  13. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    First, what "aristocracy" are your referring to? The multiple insurgent groups that the Skywalker/Solos keep finding themselves a part of? Leia Organa-Solo hasn't really held significant political power in quite some time, and Luke seems content to avoid his responsibilities as any sort of leader until he's absolutely forced to do otherwise.


    It doesn't particularly matter. They're tremendously wealthy and possess quite a good deal in influence and resources, or they wouldn't be able to galavant around state-building like they enjoy doing.

    Further: The Remnant is virtually without a doubt what will grow to become the Empire we see in "Legacy." To claim that there is no link between the two defies reason.


    You are being disingenuous here: you originally were referring to the height of the Empire and the Remnant being a pale shadow of its "former self." The Second Empire has nothing to do with this.

    The Remnant is not the Galactic Empire.

    It's still not passing the basic logic test. If the Fels were descendants of the Skywalker-Solo line and everyone knew it, we'd see a lot more chatter from the Sith Lords about the potential for Roan Fel or Sia Fel to become a "rallying point" for the Jedi instead of simply an insurgent thorn in the usurper Darth Krayt's (That much we can agree on) side.


    Would we? There's evidently a lot of chatter we're not seeing, since Nihl's discontent is suddenly showing up where he was simply a loyal schemer beforehand.

    So why would we see this? Why wouldn't it be off-screen if the creators deemed it important to keep it hidden?

    Up 'til now, we didn't even know where Roan Fel was hiding before he attacked Bastion. For a while, we didn't know where he stood with the Sith alliance. Surely important things--but kept offscreen until it was chosen to reveal them.

    Given that the birthright and legacy of the Skywalker bloodline is by and large the central plot point of the series (hence the name), it flies in the face of common sense to have in-universe characters completely avoid mentioning that key element if they have some claim to it.


    Except direct male-line Skywalker descent seems especially important.

    Hence, unless the Fel ancestry is a mystery to the in-universe public (which seems unlikely), revealing later on down the line that the Fels are just as "Skywalker" as Cade as though it's a new element of information basically makes the entire cast of the comic look like a pack of ignoramuses.


    Counterpoint: Aren't all the circus-clown Sith ignoramuses?
     
  14. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Regardless of whether the Fel's have links to the Skywalkers is irrelevant considering current circumstances. The Imperial Knights let the Jedi burn, and it would explain why the Sith aren't considering Emperor Fel as a threat that can rally the Jedi. Especially as, it's worth noting, the Jedi believe Roan Fel ordered the strike on Ossus.

    The bloodline that could allow the Fel's to rally the Jedi was wiped out - the Skywalkers. The Jedi believe Roan Fel turned on Skywalker and wiped him out with Sith help.

    I could believe the Sith are arrogant enough to assume the Jedi and Imperial Knights aren't going to get back together, thus Skywalker-descendants like Sia, Roan and Cade are the only ones who can, thus Cade telling Sia as such. Roan can't, as he's been tainted by Sith alliances and the aforementioned belief he attacked Ossus.

    Sia and Cade can rally the two orders, thus their discussion.
     
  15. Lord_Riven

    Lord_Riven Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2001
    Princess Leia is still nominally the Head of the Alderaanian people. Even in the NJO she's still referred to as an Alderaanian Princess.

    Even though I don't like the analogy, just think that she is sort of what Fett is being made to be in terms of the Mandalorians. He is their Mandalore even though he isn't around a lot pre LOTF. Nominally he's still the "head" of the Mandalorians.

    The Empire of the Hand and the Remnant probably combine to form the Empire of Fel I. But that's pure speculation on my part - though it's probably what's going to happen.

    I'm just making a comment here:

    The only thing is that you think the Jedi are going to accept Sia or Roan even if they are Skysolos considering they did sort of start the Sith Imperial War in the Jedi view. The Jedi don't trust the Empire, they don't trust the Imperial Knights. Legacy TPB Broken/Legacy 7 makes it clear. The Jedi won't trust Roan Fel after Ossus.

    So even if Sia or Roan is SkySolo, the fact that the Jedi don't trust them at all means that they can't be a rallying point. It has to be Cade because he is someone that both sides might trust.

    And it is the male bloodline that is most important as the Grand Admiral so eloquently argued. :D

    In the end, Jon has stated plenty of times he won't be treading on characters that Del Rey is using in LOTF, which includes Jag/Jaina. So maybe after Invincible comes out, Sia and Roan could be confirmed as descendants or not.
     
  16. Furyan_Jedi_13

    Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 6, 2007
    In the end, Jon has stated plenty of times he won't be treading on characters that Del Rey is using in LOTF, which includes Jag/Jaina. So maybe after Invincible comes out, Sia and Roan could be confirmed as descendants or not.

    Kind of makes you wonder why people are making such a big deal out of it, doesn't it?

    Anyway, two questions:
    1. Is there really anything concrete that could support the Fels being Skywalker/Solo descendants, or is it just the whole possible J/J thing?

    2. If it turns out that the Fels are NOT descendants of the Skywalker/Solos, would that really make any difference in the grand scheme of things?
     
  17. Delighted_Dobby

    Delighted_Dobby Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2007
    1. While this is certainly circumstantial evidence, the fact that Roan Fel is able to fight ably against a Sith lord is pretty good evidence that he is quite powerful. That implies that somewhere in his ancestral line he was descended from a powerful Jedi or Force-user, and we haven't exactly seen the Fels interacting with Force users outside of Jaina and Jag. Still, that's very loose, circumstantial evidence. Who knows, maybe Jag marries one of the lesser Jedi knights (Tahiri?). Or maybe Allana or Jysella or someone marries into the Fels at a later time, granting them their Force sensitivity.

    2. I don't think this changes too much. If anything, this makes the Fels cooler characters, since it means that their original rise to prominence didn't occur merely b/c they married into a more famous family (technically, if J/J happens, it would be her marrying into the Fels, but still) and became feared b/c of the Force abilities inherited b/c of that match.
     
  18. RebelGrrl

    RebelGrrl Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Tenel Ka/Jagged Fel

    Her daughter becomes Queen Mother eventually and Hapes remains as it is. Perhaps it once had closer ties to the Empire, but withdrew them when the Empire attacked the GA.

    T/J's son could be the Fel heir.

    No need for Jaina.

    Tenel Ka's nobles can't possibly object to Jagged Fel except other than he's not Hapan. He's not Force sensitive, he's a hero, he's got the qualities of looks the Hapans admire. He gets resources to build the Empire we see later, and an heir. Tenel Ka gets her nobles off her back and a consort she can be friends with, like, and respect.
     
  19. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2005


    I'm having a hard time buying any Alana/Hapan blood in the Fel line. There is no way the head of state of each of the two entities would get married and simply not have anything to do with each other.
     
  20. Wrinty

    Wrinty Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Cem Fel starts the Fel line. 'Nuff said.
     
  21. Rouge77

    Rouge77 Jedi Knight star 5

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    May 11, 2005
    Jagged is the only member of the Soontir branch of the family who is outside the Chiss Ascendancy at the moment as far we know it. Cem Fel is about as a minor character in SW as is possible. So, why bother to make him the first Fel despot when Jagged is a well known character, who, because of his military past, could well get a good position in the Imperial Remnant if he would wish so. Only thing he would then need would be to build himself a powerbase and then take a page out of the book of his possible brother-in-law Jacen and make himself the ruler of IR either through legal shenanigans or in an outright coup.
     
  22. RebelGrrl

    RebelGrrl Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2006
    It's entirely possible, based on treaties and agreements signed at the time of the marriage. Sort of like a pre-nup but for governments.

    Allana takes primacy as the Hapan heir. It doesn't appear she can be replaced or dislodged short of assassination. No child Tenel Ka and Jagged Fel have together can sit on or pass on the Hapan throne unless Allana dies. If Allana has a child before she dies, the throne passes to that child or that child's wife. This, no surname 'Fel' on the Hapan throne.

    Tenel Ka and Jagged Fel's children would only sit on the Hapan throne if something happened to Allana. It's entirely feasible to therefore have those children inherit leadership of the Empire. Again, only if something happened to Allana would those children have a chance to sit on both thrones, and a male child wouldn't be permitted direct rule of Hapes even if he directly ruled the Empire. It does not appear that Fel I and Fel II are female at this present moment in time.

    Or... at some point between the birth of Fel II and his coming to the imperial throne, Tenel Ka gets ousted from power and neither she nor Allana hold Hapan power any longer.
     
  23. 000

    000 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2005
    We can say with complete certainty that Jagged is either Roan's father or grandfather; we can say with near-certainty that Jaina is Roan's mother or grandmother.

    There ain't a big mystery, just the wait until next year for lohtiff to be done with and John and Jan to be free to do whatever.

    Seriously, fellas. You'd think everyone'd have learned by now.

    Remember, there's no way Palpatine = Sidious or Krayt = A'Sharad. Waaaay to obvious. :p
     
  24. QuentinGeorge

    QuentinGeorge Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Seeing as how the Fels are descended from Soontir, it would be a little strange for the royal title to be given to any except Soontir's eldest surviving son. (Jagged).

     
  25. RebelGrrl

    RebelGrrl Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Perhaps Jagged does not survive.
     
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