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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Let's Talk: Feminism

Discussion in 'Community' started by blubeast1237, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Publishing a piece about your estranged partner's infidelity to inflict public humiliation while attempting to disguise the effort as a WARNING about the partner's inauthentic feminism is maybe not as awful or illegal as revenge porn, but it's still awful.
     
  2. unironically

    unironically Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2017
    Woahh whaat Whedon was an """alpha chad""" all along? [face_liarliar]

    Joss "White Male" Whedon
    Joss "lasts longer than Firefly" Whedon
    Joss "Sarah Michelle Gellar is locked in my cellar" Whedon
    Joss "the road of progress is long but not as long as my schlong" Whedon



    too bad it won't make him any less of an inauthentic hack though

    [​IMG]

    -balding
    -man baby face
    -unattractive
    -makes cape****
    -not even feminists like him

    He's finished.
     
  3. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Please, the words "Hack Saw Ridge" prove that's complete nonsense.
     
    SuperWatto likes this.
  4. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    I liked it back when we could judge people for just being generally ****** when something like this came out; now we have to parse all bad behavior to see what particular political/social movement it goes against.

    I think you could be a feminist and cheat on your partner, if you take being feminist to mean pushing for equality in the public sphere. You could support equal pay, for instance, and still have an affair without cognitive dissonance. A guy cheating on his wife doesn't mean he's not a feminist; it means he cheated on his wife and that's pretty crappy. And as such, there's no reason to try to extrapolate out into larger issues. He cheated; that's not cool. If a gay guy cheats on his partner, that's also not cool, but no one would bring up feminism or argue that you can't really support gay rights if you cheated on your gay partner. Cheating is not cool, no matter who's doing it and who's having it done to them. That's kind of the whole thing as far as I'm concerned.
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don't care about his personal life and I certainly don't care what he looks like. When he starts writing female characters in Willie Scott/Catherine Bradshaw/Bella Swan type roles, I'll hate him as a writer.
     
  6. unicorn

    unicorn Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001


    I think the issue was not so much that he cheated but that his ex wife says he used his position of power as a very powerful male exec in Hollywood to have affairs with young actresses whose career would have depended on him, so if true there's a pretty gross power imbalance there. Describing the women he had affairs with as "beautiful, aggressive, needy" also isn't very feminist.

    I agree you can be a cheater and still be feminist and that most artist's personal lives shouldn't really affect how we view their work. I think if it was just "he cheated on his wife and was a jerk in their marriage" that wouldn't be relevant to whether he can still ride the feminist cred train that regularly gets him work.

    Still looking forward to Batgirl though.
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    re: Whedon

    For me it has echoes of the blow-up that happened with Brian Wood four years ago.

    http://comicsalliance.com/brian-wood-tess-fowler-sexual-harassment-accusations-statement/

    What links the two is both creators laid claim to being pro-feminist in their work, but were then found to be less so in how they conducted their private lives. Where the objection to this comes in is it could be said both were leveraging their public politics for professional / commercial gain, so when it was found that Wood was not quite what he claimed to be people were pissed.
     
    unicorn likes this.
  8. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Louis C.K. is reading the Whedon thing and thinking, "thank you, Joss!"
     
  9. unicorn

    unicorn Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Yeah, I think if you are not using your personal life to prop up what a great feminist you are, then it should be off-limits to criticize, but Whedon regularly pointed to his mother and wife of examples of strong women he respected to demonstrate what a feminist he was. And with that image he was able to land lucrative gigs like Wonder Women (originally) and Batgirl.

    http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/new...-exwife-kai-cole-matters-20170821-gy16lx.html This article does a better job of articulating the issue.

    He publicly cited his wife and marriage as among the key influencers of his own feminist growth, and used that to parlay the kind of fandom that specifically associated feminism with his brand.

    It was a brand that gave him access to women with less power than him, some of whom were his employees. He did it within a powerful industry known for granting very little of that power to the women who service it, particularly in contrast with the mostly male directors and producers on whom they rely for work.

    And he sat consciously in this knowledge, revelling in it and using it as a way to foster his own sense of masculinity. After he confessed his behaviour to Cole, he wrote to her, "In many ways I was the HEIGHT of normal, in this culture. We're taught to be providers and companions and at the same time, to conquer and acquire – specifically sexually – and I was pulling off both!"


    But this isn't about the simple matter of whether or not a man cheated on his wife. It's about the ways Whedon cultivated a certain feminist mythology about himself and then used that mythology to justify repeatedly cheating on his wife. It's about how he absolved himself in a letter sent to Cole after his infidelity had finally been exposed, blaming the women he cheated with, calling them "beautiful, needy, aggressive young women" who "surrounded" him.

    "It felt like I had a disease," he wrote, "like something from a Greek myth. Suddenly I am a powerful producer and the world is laid out at my feet and I can't touch it."

    But as Cole writes, "he did touch it". Whedon admitted to having the first of numerous affairs on the set of Buffy, telling his then-wife that he'd hoped this "would be ENOUGH, that THEN we could move on and outlast it".
     
    Rogue1-and-a-half and Jedi Ben like this.
  10. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    The issue is not unique to Joss Whedon; any time you seem to have money and power you seem to have infidelity. Or have we forgotten Tiger Woods, or any other person you can care to name in that position?

    The issue that is unique is that people expect perfection from their heroes, and for feminism getting men to accept it's not about putting them in chains is a bigger hurdle than common sense dictates it ought to be. So when a male feminist is vocal about their feminism, they are expected to be a certain sort of role model. A lot of those expectations are conferred onto them, rather than sought out by them - if Joseph Gordon-Levitt similarly was unfaithful, he's similarly wear the disappointments.

    If you project onto someone else what you want to see, I feel like you can only partially blame them when they let you down. Similarly, if you wish to own a mantle, you really should consider that it might have meaning beyond the short term kudos you get from it.
     
  11. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    Always cool when somebody brings a thought to a conclusion your mind failed to reach.
     
  12. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
  13. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004


    I'll just drop this here, because it is pretty fascinating. :)
     
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  14. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
  15. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    It makes me concerned for the students on campuses. Women should not have to sit in the same classrooms, let alone walk on the same grounds, as their rapists. The assailants should be expelled and prosecuted.
     
  16. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    This is old news. But I felt that I should share it here. http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/22/politics/mississippi-transgender-hate-crime/index.html

    I believe that a crime against any woman, cis or trans, is a violation of their human rights. Also, it is notable that neurologist Dick Frans Swaab (unfortunate name, some say) discovered during the 1990s that the nuclei of transgender female brains are virtually identical to those of cisgender female brains.
     
    Rew likes this.
  17. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
  18. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
  20. MrMojoRisin

    MrMojoRisin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2005
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    When you have something real to offer, feel free to post it. If your only contribution is none, then don’t post.

    And do not reply with snark against other users or staff.
     
  22. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
  23. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Being in the year 2017 doesn't make us necessarily better than any previous year. Plus Ireland already has very restrictive laws on abortion, if there's any change it will only be to make it more accessible.

    [​IMG]
    Legal on request
    Restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health, health, rape, fetal defects, and/or socioeconomic factors
    Restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health, health, rape, and/or fetal defects
    Restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health, health, and/or rape
    Restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health, and/or health
    Restricted to cases of maternal life
    Illegal with no exceptions
    No information

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#/media/File:Abortion_Laws.svg
     
  24. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Ghost, I love you in a non-creepy Internet "lets webcam" kinda way....

    But I don't need a world map, with colours, to know the legality of abortion is still a huge issue. It is no big secret.
     
  25. Dread Pirate Roberts

    Dread Pirate Roberts Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2017
    DANNASUK I think the map was for ignoramuses like me. Thanks Ghost
     
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