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Senate Let's Talk: Feminism

Discussion in 'Community' started by blubeast1237, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Darth Eddie

    Darth Eddie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 14, 2013
    I guess you can say I'm a feminist. In my daily life I treat women with the appropriate respect, and I'm a huge proponent of "stong female protagonist" idea, and not simply giving a woman a weapon and an aggressive attitude. Actually, one of the prime protagonists of my book, a war story by the way, is a woman who never once even touches a weapon. Of course there is a point where feminism reflexes too far and starts to seem sexist against men, and as a male, even though we pretty much had that coming, that makes me feel uncomfortable. What I'm for at the end of the day is infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
    To be precise, Wheaton's first law is "Don't be a ****". Given that the starred word generally refers to an unpleasant man, it kind of seems appropriate to this situation.
     
  2. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick Game Host - SfC Part VI BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000

    I knew that beforehand... was making fun, playing on Jello's response that preceded my post there.
     
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  3. Obi-Zahn Kenobi

    Obi-Zahn Kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 1999
  4. Zapdos

    Zapdos Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2013
    hello ozk. here to troll?
     
  5. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
     
  6. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    It's true. I am a fantastic cook.
     
  7. PRENNTACULAR

    PRENNTACULAR VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2005
    yeah i'm kickass in the kitchen and then pretty helpless most other places
     
  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    THe struggle they stand for is one you can't relate to?

    Oh, right. Infidelity and respect being mutually exclusive positions.
     
  9. Only-One Cannoli

    Only-One Cannoli Ex-Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Blubeast you're that guy in life who thinks he's kind, he thinks he treats women well, he thinks too much and does too little. I mean, just going off of your past thread and this one.
     
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  10. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    Ender Sai it is a not-uncommon school of thought within women's studies that feminism is inherently a woman's struggle, and one that men cannot and should not pretend to fully grok. often feminists of this stripe still welcome the participation of men in feminist movement, but they do not seek out our "assistance" and they wish to avoid the movement being co-opted and derailed by male interests. this is, however, not at all incompatible with the bell hooks "feminism is for everyone!" school of thought, it simply advocates mindfulness of the central relationship between women and feminism, and asks that male allies/pro-feminist men (two of the most common terms for men sympathetic to feminist movement, in this line of thinking) respect that relationship.

    i tend towards this mode of thinking, and posters may have noted a tendency to refer to myself as a "pro-feminist man" as opposed to "feminist", which i currently feel is a bit presumptuous for men to use. i am still an itty babby when it comes to gender studies and feminism, so i reserve the right to change my mind later. for the time being, however, while i see that patriarchal distortions of social relations are inherently harmful to the vast majority of (and quite probably all) humans, including men, i think power relations being what they are, it is better that feminism remain synonymous with women's movement, even as i believe men should educate themselves as much as possible on that movement and pitch in when asked

    also, let me add that yes this is "a blubeast thread" but that doesnt mean it has to be a thread about blubeast. maybe we can try to riff on feminism for a while before obi-zahn or somebody jumps in and ruins everything?
     
  11. Jensaarai1219

    Jensaarai1219 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    I think this is bs. I feel the same way when ever I see that picture on Facebook that a husband is a woman's oldest child. I think men used feminism to stay perpetual children. If we wanted to be equal then we had to suffer the difficulties of being in charge as they did. Then women got used to this being the way it is. You can't win. You're a b if you try to pursue your own interests and a coward if you don't. You have to be the best, you can't rely on anyone, but good help if you don't let everyone weigh in. Equal would suggest a partnership but that's not the world we live in.

    I've recently discovered that I have a passionate and unfortunate hatred of men. I hope that I am wrong and society is not the way it seems.
     
  12. Zapdos

    Zapdos Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2013
    well, it's a shame about the hatred. it's stuff like that that makes men think that feminists work against them.
     
  13. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Is this rhetorical? Because if history is to be believed, the answer is no.
     
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  14. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    It's a pretty nice theory, but I think sometimes the particulars of its epistemological approach are applied incorrectly to the sciences; though I'd level the same charge at most continental approaches, it's not particular to feminism. Certainly it's the best thing to come out of Sartrean existentialism.
     
  15. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Now you're just showing off.
     
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  16. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    on the notion of equality: i have always thought that the use of the word "equality" leads to misunderstanding. most people who advocate social justice or leftist causes are not ultimately interested in an ideal of "equality" so much as an ideal of "equatability". this is a subtle difference, but ive always been fond of the following explanation:

    equality means everybody gets shoes

    equatability means everybody gets shoes that fit

    the word "equality" implies an unrealistic and sort of soulless standard of everything being the same, steamrolling the diversity of human experience. equatability respects that diversity and accommodates it in ways that allow each member of society to live to their fullest potential. i think that's a much more useful standard to aspire to

    men (and women) need to be educated about the power relations in society in order to understand that feminism is not about squeezing each man and woman in society into the same, narrow box -- rather, most feminist movement is oriented towards improving the conditions for women (and, in the long term, men) and repairing relations between women and men, women and women, men and men, etc, so that society can function in a more fair and equatable manner
     
  17. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Well, yes.
     
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  18. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    since i kind of brought up pro-feminism itt and this thread was started by a male interested in feminism and people seemed to like my post on pro-feminism, i was poking around trying to find an old blog by a pro-feminist man that i used to read, which got recommended to me by a rad-fem blog i was poking around once... and i cant find it. i did, however, find XYonline, which looks solid enough that i have added it to my "to poke around" blogpile. please check it out for yourselves and maybe we can talk about some of the articles there?

    to begin, here is a link to a pdf about men who are active in feminism
     
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  19. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006


    If Ramza was an MRA
     
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  20. dp4m

    dp4m Also a Narc star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    *If*? :p
     
  21. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005

    I think you need to work on your ability to detect humor and satire, and simmer down with the man-hating. Misandry and misogyny need to go the **** away.
     
  22. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    There's some truth to this though, and I respect this point of view. In household dynamics when men concede the superiority of their spouses, it's often meant in a way that excuses their own laziness about being an equal partner in childcare and doing the daily household chores.

    It's a practical application of Rogue_Ten's "pro feminism," and my wife and I have talked about it a lot. For me, being a pro-feminist is about fighting myself. Men need to do a better job of fighting their own gender war inside their own heads rather than projecting their issues onto women. I know I'm projecting here. Sorry. It's a constant battle.
     
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  23. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    I know you're just joking, but even if, for some unfathomable reason, I was totally down with their not very well hidden misogyny, they'd still have all of their also appalling transphobia and homophobia. Which is then accompanied with a nice fecal glaze of reinforcing societal gender expectations and 1950s models for relationships.

    **** MRAs, is what I'm trying to say here.
     
  24. Jensaarai1219

    Jensaarai1219 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    As I said it is unfortunate. It is also unwanted, and recent. I see so many irl men not taking responsibility for their kids or their bills. Then just using the excuse that it's a woman's responsibility because she's stronger, smarter, better under stress, more responsible, etc. But a girl does get herself into that. You gotta make your own world rather than whine about the one your in and this is not a psychiatrist's office.

    That said I have no idea if that post or this entire thread is satire. It just struck a personal chord. I suppose I should assume that everything is satire, nothing is real. I did find it online after all. Fair enough and that's the last I'll say.
     
  25. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    No, you're entitled to say whatever you want, and I do get where you were coming from, with the first part. I was mainly addressing the misandry--that's never helpful. Please, don't leave the thread on account of me.
     
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