Letting Qui-Gons be Qui-Gons: A Renamed Characterization/Discussion Thread

Per instructions from Dianethx I have come to babble here. I hope no one will be sorry.

I know his voice is there but the part with "No!" doesn't sound like him to me I keep wanting to get a voice pattern analyser and run it against that section of the sound track. After several listenings (I love DVDs) I have decided that it probably is Liam's voice. I think it sounds funny because it is cut dialog from TPM and I suspect they cleared out background noise from the scene they cut but that affected the final bit they used in AotC. I'm wondering if they filmed him yelling "Anakin, no!" when the fighter Anakin was in started moving.

One of the things I am working on right now may end up involving a Obi/Qui reunion scene but not in time for this challenge. Unless the challenge runs for a really long time.

I only just succumbed to the lure of reading this whole thread so I'm gonna comment on all kinds of old stuff in another post later on.

KD

 

When I first heard Qui-Gon's No in AOTC, I thought it sounds like Luke (which was totally confusing!) but on repeated viewing, I,too, believe that it's Liam's voice. Heavy sigh... I wanted him to be in AOTC as a blue ghostie so much and was quite unhappy when it was only his voice. I had read, prior to AOTC, that Liam would be in it but it could have been that they meant the litte Liam in the youngling's scene (just to throw everyone off). As for Qui-Gon being in the next one, there's denial and rumor and, frankly, I'll believe it when I see it!

Anyway, welcome KD and feel free to just jump in and respond away!

As for the challenge, heck I'm still thinking about the Council chamber scene challenge! LOL!

 

Wait... there's a Council challenge AND a Reunion challenge? Where? You guys are too subtle; I'm having trouble finding these!

(like I have time to write one anyway... *sigh*)

 

I'm not sure, but I think we decided to save the Council challenge for later. I dunno...what does everyone think?

Edited to say: Welcome to the thread KD

 

Thank you for the welcome. You may change your mind when you see the sheer volume of babble of which I am capable.

Well, I say, if you leave the council challenge for enough later I might even get to it. But since I am one of the few who is not really that unhappy with the council scene as it was (other than 1) the stupid council members should have known that saying no to Qui-Gon is roughly equivalent to waving a red flag in front of a bull, 2) not to mention just saying no he isn't going to be trained but not making any further statement about what is going to happen to him is not the smartest thing to do in front of a kid - wait - was Anakin still there then? Ack! It's been too long since I watched TPM I can't remember it frame by frame anymore. Aaaaccckkkkk. And 3) Obi-Wan may have been surprised, even startled, but after 10 years with the man he should know better than to think he would be abandoned by Qui-Gon and you'd think by then he'd have figured out that for whatever reason it was important to Qui-Gon to see the boy trained and instead of focusing on the boy being dangerous (duh, that is why training is a good thing not a bad one) he should be looking for why Qui-Gon is so dead set on it.)

So, I'm at the gym the other night, and I look up at the huge TVs which are usually showing the kind of junk that who knows who wants to watch it (I swear - they had lumberjack olympics on one night and a blackjack tournament on espn2 another - I swear, blackjack - and yes this is eventually going to end up somewhere Qui-Gon related) so I never bring a radio to listen to it anymore because the most I can stand to do with the news is follow along with the lame closed captioning and everything else is too dumb, when what do I see but Liam Neeson in a clip from Love Actually. The so-and-sos had Ebert and Roeper on and I didn't have a radio (they transmit the tv sound on 'unused' radio channels) and hadn't known it was going to be on and so hadn't programmed a vcr and my hubby wasn't home to be told to tape it quick. I narrowly escaped assault charges for trying to rip the radio headphones off another gym member. Mostly because there were none in reach wearing a radio headphone. I had to content myself with watching and drooling. Which was a pity because I have been trying for ages to get organized and find something with Liam's voice so I could listen and see just how deep I thought it was.

So, that's my discussion topic, how deep is Qui-Gon's voice (curiosity inspired by the Smoke vignette) and does he sing? And if so in what register? If that is what you call it. (I'm the one they made up the saying about - you know - can't carry a tune in a bucket - that one. I can hear when other people are off though.) Somehow I can just picture him singing a traditional something-or-other tune while he walks the 15 miles that they overshot the capitol by when their shuttle crash landed. But what do others think? And for that matter what register does Obi-Wan sing in (he has to sing - sorry) or do I have to go join the Obi-Wan thread to ask that? (that was a joke, I thought I should explain that because aparently I'm not being clear about stuff like that lately despite s and so on.)

I swing both ways on the cook thing. I'm even completely capable of writing a story where he is an excellent cook followed by one in which no one ever wants to have dinner at padawan Obi's house more than once (after the stories get around, not even once) and he's feeling a bit down about it.

KD

 

KD, Loved the 1) the stupid council members should have known that saying no to Qui-Gon is roughly equivalent to waving a red flag in front of a bull, - What were they thinking??!!!LOL.

Yes, Anakin was in the Council chamber, looking mighty upset at everything that was going on.

And 3) Obi-Wan may have been surprised, even startled, but after 10 years with the man he should know better than to think he would be abandoned by Qui-Gon - Well, that is the heart of it. Depends whether you go with the JA books or not. Jude Watson did write Qui-Gon as being, well, emotionally disturbed is a good way of putting it. I adore Qui-Gon, don't get me wrong! but he did reject Obi-Wan again and again in the early part of their relationship and that would scar a kid entering puberty. And Qui-Gon did abandon him emotionally again with the whole Tahl thing (don't get me started on that one). I would think that, by the time Obi-Wan was 25, he would have been able to figure out what was really going on inside Qui-Gon's head and he probably did, considering Obi-Wan's actions later in the movie. But it is never pleasant to hear that he was being (in his viewpoint) pushed aside for a kid that Qui-Gon had just met - Chosen one or not. Even if he wasn't being pushed aside.
Now, that's a puzzle, though. The Council did say that QuiGon could not have two Padawans. What if Qui-Gon had insisted that Anakin become his Padawan? What exactly would have happened to Obi-Wan? Thrown out of the Temple (nay, too valuable a resource and a darn good Jedi to boot)? Sent to his trials early (likely since he did pass the Sith trial later in the movie)? Sent to another Master (more likely but Obi's be plenty ticked off as he should). I just don't know and the movie and books aren't really clear on the issue. Fanfic is but not the "official" line....



As for the voice thing, I can just picture Liam singing a soft lullaby in that beautiful voice of his - not belting it out but softly, sweetly, low enough that you have to lean forward to hear it clearly. Oh, my!

 

Warning: All I tried to do is put in a link to Qui's tone poem, where you can hear his voice, and the links went berserk on me. I decided not to fix them below, in the hopes they'll figure themselves out and partly because I don't feel like finding the link again. Hmmm.

In short, go here then Images, then Ep 1, then Characters, then Qui, then look on page 15 for the Quicktime file. Argh.

Now why did that link work?



There's a sound (video file in the multimedia section of the TFN that has Qui-Gon's voice; it's actually the "One Destiny" poem thing. (You know, the "It will be a hard life, one without reward ..." thing). I think you need Quicktime to view it. If you go to here: Qui-Gon tone poem you should see it among a bunch of thumbnails. Pick the "reel" one, I think it's second row, third on the left.

Alrighty. So the link won't work, and it doesn't come up as the right page when I cut and pasted it in. Don't know what's up with that. Okay, try here [/link]to get to the Qui-Gon page. Now go to page 15 of the images and you should see it there.

Alrighty. That doesn't work either. It seems that long addresses keep having spaces put in them by the system, don't know why. Try Here then click on "Characters" then "Qui" and that should work.

 

What were they thinking??

"Own view, takes Qui-Gon, too often. Down a peg or two, take him, we shall."? Actually, I really do not understand what they were thinking. Other than they were so busy panicking at the idea the Sith had returned they didn't have time for petty things like Chosen Ones. Or perhaps the whole Chosen One thing was another scary thing and they wanted to keep their heads in the sand about that for a while.

Yes, Anakin was in the Council chamber, looking mighty upset at everything that was going on.

Whew. Memory not so off then. Trouble was, I was just reading something purporting to be an early version of the script and I was afraid I was 'seeing" the script I had just read which might not be what they put in the film rather than actually remembering what I did see. Poor kid was probably remembering every time his mother had stuck up for him and been punished by an owner or something. He was probably terrified of causing trouble.

So it seems to me that everytime Qui-Gon gets short with people (Padme on Tatooine, council and Obi in council chambers, Obi on the platform etc.) it is because they are saying things that would alarm or hurt the child in front of (or in the hearing of) the child. Qui-Gon being the only one who is seeing Anakin as a child (except maybe Padme). The rest are seeing something dangerous that they ought to get rid of. Like an unexploded bomb. Not necessarily an inappropriate comparison in many ways but you don't take an unexploded bomb and just move it two streets over and stop worrying about it.

None of them seem to be thinking about the consequences of just getting rid of Anakin. What do you do with him? Send him home to mama? He's gonna want to earn a living real fast so he can buy her freedom. He'll take up pod racing again. He'll win again. A lot. He'll eventually come to the notice of either Palpatine or his apprentice due to the novelty of a human even surviving let alone winning pod races. Boom. Vader. (Reading over that paragraph reminded me of If You Give a Mouse a Cookie for some reason... If you give a slave a podracer part he'll want to build a podracer.....)

And that's if just being in that world isn't enough to turn him. 'Course the council don't know about Palpatine but they do know about Maul somewhat and the dangers of a Force capable being falling to the dark side can't be only after they have been trained. The untrained must be just as likely (if not more so) to end up using the dark side and causing a lot of suffering. I always figured that was part of the purpose of sending the initiates who didn't make padawan to the AgriCorps. You spend a little time gardening, you get the warm fuzzy feeling from growing something, you get to calm down and lose the anger etc. Probably after a bit you get to decide what to do with your life now. I doubt anyone has to stay in AgriCorps after a while if they don't want to.

And Qui-Gon did abandon him emotionally again with the whole Tahl thing (don't get me started on that one). I would think that, by the time Obi-Wan was 25, he would have been able to figure out what was really going on inside Qui-Gon's head and he probably did, considering Obi-Wan's actions later in the movie. But it is never pleasant to hear that he was being (in his viewpoint) pushed aside for a kid that Qui-Gon had just met - Chosen one or not. Even if he wasn't being pushed aside.

She doing this just to wind me up. I know it. I seem to recall Obi-Wan working out on his own that Qui-Gon was not really abandoning him just because he had formed the attachment to Tahl. And he was supposed to be 17 or so by then wasn't he? But I am not going to go hunt up all those JA books again to be able to verify either assertion. And yes, that was not nearly as well written as it could be (not to mention all the other possible issues) but I think that is true of all of the JA books really.

And regardless of what you think about whether the Jedi could marry or whatnot or not... What happened to Qui-

 

Wow look, a Qui-Gon thread that's not dead and people actually.. posting on it. Sarah i'm ashamed of you! How come you never told me this exsisted before!!!!???? Alright with that being finished I'll post my two cents worth on the topic. Qui-Gon's greatest flaw I think is his tendency to blame himself for things that are beyond his control. Take Xanatos for example. Yes Qui-Gon trained him and blinded himself to some of the evil that was in his apprentice but it wasn't entirely Qui-Gon's fault that he fell. Xanatos made his own choices but Qui-Gon suffered guilt for them for years even after he took Obi-Wan as an apprentice. I also think that Qui-Gon's act first and think later policy tends to get him in trouble at times. However sometimes there are situations where you can't just sit around and think all day about what you're going to do, so in some ways having that tendency can help.


By the way, Sarah would this be a good place to post my challenge if you remember the idea that I gave you not long ago...

 

LAAAAAAYYYYYYYRRRRRRREEEEEENNNNN!


Hello. (Feels a bit strange to be writing this considered we're talking on MSN right now...) So sorry.

 

Hey there Layren. You finally showed up! Yes, things are picking up with KD on the line. In fact, she had so much to say (a good thing) that I need time to think things through.

Hummmm....I was thinking about the Council scene on my drive home. And I'm not trying to get KD all worked up! Really!!! I think that it's really a matter of perspective. Qui-Gon, I think we can all agree, didn't expect or want to push Obi-Wan aside - probably didn't mean for it to sound that way at all. And KD makes several good points about Obi-Wan's preparedness for Knighthood. Actually, some of those points I had never thought about before but they makes perfect sense! I'm going to have to watch TPM again just to see them!
However, from Obi-Wan's point of view, he was pretty upset in the Council chamber. Just look at the angry astonishment in his face as Qui-Gon takes Anakin as his Learner and I know I see that he feels betrayed and furious with his Master. And when Qui-Gon is saying that he is headstrong and needs to learn about the Living Force, Obi-Wan was trying desperately to keep from looking livid - the clenched jaw and angry eyes kind of give it away. Obi-Wan's quick speech about being ready for the trials sounds like a panicked response, rather than an actual belief (although I'm sure in calmer moments, he would say that he is ready - and I believe he is as well). So I can see both sides here - Qui-Gon's hasty attempt to stem the Council's idiotic moves and Obi-Wan's angry response to a perceived slight... Makes for great angst and lots of debate!

 

Finally showed up... hrmph yes I did. I still can't believe you guys never told me about this place... *sulks* now I have to make up for lost time. Anyway. Excellent comments everyone. So nice to finally find intelligent Qui-Gon discussions with lots of other fans as thrilled about him as I am. Diane, how's chapter 15 coming along?

 

I would have told you sooner but I figured you knew!

How's Chapter 15 coming? Errrr, I think I hear the phone ringing...... Actually, not well. I've got writer's block, yet again! I may send the second part on to my list just to keep you all satisfied. It's been growing by leaps and bounds in length but not in wrapping up. Sorry...

 

Second part.. yes yes ..... I'd be very happy to get that in my inbox. I've run out of stuff to read so that's partially what drew me to the boards over here...I've read just about all there is at fanfiction.net....that has Qui-Gon in it...

 

*pokes head in the door* Coolies! A Qui-Gon thread. Just what this forum needs. Hey to Sarah and everyone! I am Charmisjess, I follow Sarah around waving a flag for her fic "Making."

Hmmm, Qui-ghostie scenes? Nah, I could never do it. To write a ghostie would mean accepting Qui-Gons death and....that is something I cannot do. No, I mainly stick to fics about Qui-Gon the apprentice, or during the JA period rather than getting into TPM. Far too painful. However, I highly respect authors who can. Braver writers than I.
As for Liams comments, I would be inclined to believe that they are a pack of lies from the depths of sith. Or they could have perhaps already filmed some of the scenes, so technecally he's not working on it *now*...who knows? I guess we'll have to wait and see. (laughs) or just mosey on over and see what the spoiler threads have to say about it... (heads that way)

>edit:yes, possibly the subjects I just replied to are a bit old. Looking back now, I realize there are a lot of posts after them...so I hope you all don't mind me bringing up old things. I get easily confused in forums. Easily...easily...easily confused. Apoligies! <

 

Hey there Jess. It would be good to get the old thread moving again. It seems that we are all so busy with fics that it's hard to even sit down for a moment to just veg!

And everyone, you might want to check out the Obi-Wan Challenge thread over in the Saga section. On page 8, Ginger wrote a silly piece on Obi-Wan's cloak starring our favorite Jedi - Qui-Gon! It was very funny!!

 

Diane,
Checked out the fanfiction boards per your suggestion. There is indeed some astounding talent out there. One thing I noticed however was that half the fics are incomplete.... *sigh* Maybe I was just looking in the wrong place. Anyway. *waves at Jess and Sarah* Hey gals. Nice to see y'all. Anyhow, QGJDL did a poll not too long ago about what Qui-Gon's favorite movie genre would be.. what do y'all think? Drama? humor? Foreign Romantic Comedy

 

Unfortunately, a lot of fics never get finished. After a while, you get to know who will finish and who won't... It's kind of an ongoing writer's feast...

I always thought Qui-Gon would like drama. After all, he's so dramatic! Although a light comedy might be more his style...nah!

 

Movies? *pulls out popcorn*

Hmm, lets see, yeah, drama or maybe epics I think Qui would enjoy...but I think he'd be really into nature documentaries. Sure, thats not a genre exactly, but along those lines, you know. Lol, anyone on here ever watch that old show, Marty Stoffer's Wild America? I think Qui'd maybe like that. Bleah, popcorn tastes really bad on an empty stomach...
<on topic this time! WOOHOO! >

 

Qui-Gon's favorite movie genre

I somehow can't see him having a favorite genre. I can see him liking wildly disparate movies.

And I suspect a preference for those that are not completely deadly serious. While he would enjoy a drama he would prefer that it be leavened with a bit of humor. So he'd prefer Sense and Sensibility to Wuthering Heights for example. And he would probably adore films that other Jedi (or even other citizens of the Republic in general) would be completely non-plussed by. Like the GFFA version of The Fast Runner or even the GFFA version of Gun Shy.

If he does have a favorite genre; what about a secret weakness for suspense/mystery/espionage films? Does he have a copy of L.A. Confidential, or Fargo, or the complete set of Bond flicks even, hidden behind his personally autographed Master Yoda's Lightsaber Techniques And How To Teach Them holovid box?

Are Jedi even allowed to watch films? What about read novels?

Happy Hobbit Thanks for the pointer to the "tone poem" I think I'll decide medium low for now. I need to hear some other voices to compare to.

I found some notes that I thought I had posted during the earlier discussion about the council scene but apparently I didn't. And since I seem to be coming close to threadkiller status perhaps I will not bother to do so.

KD

 

KD - please bother to do so!!! You are not threadkiller status. It's been slow lately because it's the holidays and we are all busy writing and dealing with RL.

 

Okay, this isn't really that much of a discussion topic, more a sort of ramble, but I've been wondering...

I am so scared of Episode III. Because the probabilty we'll get a Obi/ghostie Qui scene is quite high now I reckon, and I am very worried of how it's gonna turn out, i.e. if Qui blames Obi, or there's a repeat of the TPM arguement...I'll probably be more upset than I will when all the Vader stuff happens. So...someone...reassure me nothing like this will happen! And then I will be able to sleep at night.

Or...alternatively we could have a discussion about how a scene like that (good or bad) could be used in EIII and so on...maybe we'd better just do that...

p.s. Mr GL, if you're reading this for some reason...don't do it!

 

I know next to nothing about Ep III (other than that whole 'vader' thing ) but I don't think that Ghostie Qui-Gon would show up. The place for him to do so would have been Ep2, which he really didn't. For whatever reason the actor didn't give his consent (I think - I could be wrong about that) or didn't want to film more, and I highly doubt he'd do it for the next film. Unless, of course, Neeson saw AOTC and realized how much GL really needed a bit more than the TPM voicetrack in that "Anakin! No!" scene, and out of pity decided to be part of Ep III.

If Qui-Gon were in Ep III - hmmm. I do not think that Qui would blame Obi. I mean, Obi-Wan did exactly what he wanted him to do, right? If anything I'd expect Obi-Wan to get a bit snappish at Qui. ("Master, you moron, why'd you wait 10 years to show up? Huh? Huh? Huh? Useless piece of blue ghostiness you are. Shoo.")

I'm just bitter because I totally thought Qui-Gon was going to show up in AOTC. I was a very unknowledgeable fan back then, but even I knew that blue ghostie Obi showed up in ESB. From the moment after I saw TPM I thought I'd get to see blue ghostie Qui-Gon. And it didn't happen!

Scratch my idea of Obi's reaction. I actually think he'd be happy to see Qui, if only a bit perplexed. He's very loyal to Qui, as we saw in the Dooku scene. By the time of the OT, Ben seems to believe that Anakin's fall was partly his doing, but I don't think he'd believe that completely in Ep 3 (gosh darn it they better come out with a title soon I'm tired I'm typing that). So I don't think he'd feel strong guilt or anything, just anger and (really strong) disappointment at Anakin. I don't think he'd blamed Qui, either, although in the deleted scene he admits to Mace that he realizes the boy was too old to start his training. But it was the Jedi that allowed the training, too, not just Qui's insistence.

I would think, were there a blue-ghostie-Qui in the next film, that it would come at the end, after ... all the bad stuff has happened. I don't really know, though. In my story of ep3 I had their conversation before the duel, as a sort of 'do what you have to do' thing. I think blue-ghost-Qui (forever and henceforth to be known as BGQ) would be most useful after all the main action, as a sort of Obi-gathers-himself sort of thing.

But based on the other films, BG show up before the final action. So I'm just babbling nonsense here. As usual.

Maybe BGQ wouldn't even talk to Obi, maybe Anakin instead. Hmm. I like that idea. He can give that kid a talking to.

Can ghosts hold lightsabers? Do you think BGQ would be able to duel?

 

BGQ of course I am slightly dyslexic with acronyms at times so I keep reading that as BQG which is obviously Barbe-Qui-Gon (mangling barbeque Qui-Gon) so I am not sure I can give this the serious discussion it merits.

I read conflicting things about the reason for no BGQ in AotC. One was that it was due mainly to the motorcycle accident that Liam had. He would have been supposed to show up to film at a time when that would have been difficult. And when he could show up didn't fit in with the filming schedule. I also read that he wasn't keen to do all the travel and makeup required for the short bit they wanted to film. I also read that he was expecting to do it but GL called it off and he had no idea why. So I have no idea what is going on. My money is on a combination of all three. That said, I don't want to read any EP3 spoilers or my beta won't beta my fic and I need my fic beta'd so I may not read any replies to the following piece of pure and unadulterated speculation: There may be an opportunity for BGQ in EP3 (and the longer they take to come up with a lame name, the better if you ask me - which I realize you didn't, but there you are) as he is still learning how to contact the other side as it were. He got his voice through but hadn't figured out the image thing fully but by EP3 he does.

As for Obi-Wan saying he realized Ani was too old to start training:
1) I haven't watched the deleted scenes on the AotC disc?!?!?!? Great Scott! I must rush right home and do that!
2) If he really thought that Ani had been too old then why in the name of all that is light in the universe would he decide to train Luke who is even older? Perhaps all that time in the desert sent him around the bend?

KD
still looking for the incendiary stuff - I know I have it somewhere - the problem is all the computer messing about I have done lately makes it all unreachable or at least unfindable

 

Wow KD I haven't watched the deleted scenes on the AotC disc?!?!?!? Great Scott! I must rush right home and do that! . That's the first thing I see on a DVD is the deleted stuff and all the documentaries/commentaries, etc. My husband thinks I'm crazy but I watched Fellowship of the Rings 3 times with the commentaries on (the actors were hilarious). I haven't had time to see the Two Towers commentaries (although I've thoroughly watched all of disc 3 and am about to go to disc 4). Gotta love all the extra stuff!!!

As for blue ghostie, I was very dissappointed to not see Qui-Gon in the movie. I'm sorry - a single voice overlay just didn't do it for me. Actually, the first time I saw AOTC I didn't even recognize his voice! Maybe he'll show up - maybe Obi and Yoda will just talk about it. Who knows what Lucas has planned....