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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST "Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not" Then why did Luke not help Rey first?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by skywalker-singh, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    The point is that Luke chose to stay on the island. And he came up with a means of intervening in his own way
     
  2. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2014
    He chose to stay on the island when he was "wrong" about the Jedi and his role.

    Then when he we got his head right he intervened. How he intervened at that point is of course up to the writer. There were other options.
     
  3. Jamtia

    Jamtia Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2016
    I actually got it on the first time. I knew what Yoda was saying. It echoed the OT of not losing Luke to the dark side. As far as to why Luke didn't go to the flagship first? Because RJ didn't want him to. If Rey turns now because of Luke, then that line has more meaning and significance. But Rey left being unphased by the dark side, so the line Yoda said really has no significance for me. It's like they have no idea how capable Rey is alone. She didn't need Luke or Yoda to help her being saved from the dark side. She did it by herself. I believe that's what RJ wanted to show, that she could do it on her own. I feel like Luke would have just gotten in the way of the throne scene honestly. Then again, Luke nor Yoda expected Snoke to go down. But RJ wanted Kylo to be the one to take him down, not Luke.

    Believe it or not, when I read spoilers for TLJ, and read the part of Luke trying to kill Kylo in his sleep, I thought that could have been a part where Luke boards the ship during the middle of the movie and sneaks into Kylo's throne there. Didn't think it was past tense. Would have been cool to see Luke lurking around the base like Obi Wan did in ANH.
     
  4. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. skywalker-singh

    skywalker-singh Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
     
  6. skywalker-singh

    skywalker-singh Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    That would have been amazing. It would have actually given context to why Luke felt Kylo would go dark, as a possible vision of the future. Luke could have played a Obi van role to help sabotage the Supremacy. Sometimes I feel Rian had a lack of imagination. There so many different ways this could have gone, instead of the plot choices Rian made.

    But Luke/Yoda feeling Rey can stare-down Snoke/Kylo/Red guard and thousands of soldiers plus their support fleet still makes no sense. There was an emotional connection built over 2 and half movies before Luke chooses to submit to Vader. Luke also felt vader could sense him. Likewise in Bespin luke was rescuing his friends.

    Rey was not going to rescue the rebels. She went to meet Kylo because luke was refusing to teach her. It would have been a more powerful scene if Luke went with Rey. Rey to distract Kylo/Snoke while Luke sabotages the supremacy. You can even have a scene where Luke says "its too dangerous for you to face them alone. i made that mistake on bespin". Rey, responds I am not alone, I have "Luke skywalker and the light!"

    And Luke intervenes when Snoke is torturing her, and we finally get a grand yoda/sidious type force showdown. We could have still had the throne scene where rey/kylo fought the red guards while Luke engaged Snoke.

    And Snoke being killed by Kyle, while distracted with his fight with Luke would have been perfect. The scene would have also given us great dialogue and some history of what went down between luke/snoke and how kylo was corrupted by him. Imagine a ROS type scene, a reverse of Palpatine asking anakin to save him from Windu. Here Snoke is asking Kylo to help with Luke while Rey is still fighting the guard. Instead Kylo kills snoke.

    And then we have the scene where Kylo still chooses the Dark.

    sigh. more i think about it i see all the missed potential in TLJ.
     
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  7. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Luke doesn't want to physically confront his nephew. He simply wants to buy the Resistance some time to escape. He can't kill Ben and he certainly doesn't want Ben to have to kill him so his only real option is to try and trick him into thinking he's really there.

    I also like to think Luke is trying to save Ben from ever having to take his life. If Luke were still alive a confrontation between the two would likely be inevitable. He knows that projecting himself to Crait is going to kill him but also knows that he'll gain immortality through the Force thus keeping Ben from ever having to strike him down and succumbing to the dark side even more.
     
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  8. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    I see no reason to think that is all they ever were even for Lucasfilm.

    There is nothing in the approach to TFA or TLJ as movies that indicates otherwise. The attitude seems to be that is for the storygroup to try to figure out in the novel and comic versions for anyway.

    It's also on a movie to movie basis hence the shifting backstories for each movie.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  9. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    I must say I never had thought about why Luke didnt astroproject himself to the Supremacy, but that is a good question.

    I would guess the entire projection takes a while to prepare . Luke needed to harness his power and let the force penetrate him and get used to feeling it again after a while of blocking it. Then Luke had to mediate and no telling how long and how focused and serious you must meditate to manifest your image thru the force. Probably took some time and good meditation.

    I would say by the time Luke has his image ready to project, Rey Is on Crait. The reason why Luke then took a while to "get on Crait" , would probably be due to his attempt to find Rey thru the force and visions as she could be anywhere in the Galaxy. When Luke finally finds where she is, he can then begin to Release that astroprojection on Crait and control it. And he came in the absolute last second for the Resistance.

    ...
    Now I think if Luke tried and could get his holoprojection In Snoke 's throne room when Rey was there, it would not have worked. Snoke knows alot enough about Luke obviously and would see thru the image for the Projection it is. Luke would almost certainly have to let his projection go Or else Snoke Would Zap it with Lightning or A few Praetorians potentially could do some harm.
     
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  10. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    "Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not" Then why did Luke not help Rey first?

    I think Yoda said this to Luke after he already dismissed Rey. It was after this point that Luke decided to involve himself in the situation.
     
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  11. jajje

    jajje Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Isn't really Yoda the main problem here, actually for the whole Saga? He just sits out all the chaos and kinda rocks up at the end of the day with his "wisdom". Are we lead to believe that Yoda and Luke has had no conversations for the past 30 years, since ROTJ?

    I assumed Luke brought in advice from Obi-Wan and Anakin as well, before setting up his new academy. Or is the whole point now that the ST also will portray every Jedi (at least a main or secondary character) as partly ignorant and partly ambiguous about their "purpose".

    It's all a rehash of the dynamics between Anakin, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Luke etc... (And the probable answer is that what we get to see is JJ's and Rian's take on the "fallen Jedi"-concept as well as the "wannabe-Jedi's journey" - but lacking new perspective.)
     
  12. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Essentially yes as Luke in TLJ is basically some variant of where he was post TESB. Basically the gist is Luke hasn't spoken to Yoda in 30 years and never went back to Dagobah.

    The version of events that would support the story of the ST can't be found in the movies we know.
     
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  13. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    You know, putting Yoda's quote up there highlighted one particularly disturbing part of it. Did Yoda really say, "Lost Ben Solo, you did..." I mean, is that for real? Wise grand master Yoda blames Luke for Kylo just like Rey did when she assaulted Luke and uttered that embarrassing "Is it true? Did you make Kylo Ren?" line? Obviously personal responsibility and the significance of personal choice are not themes of the ST.

    Luke and Yoda can't lose Rey. Rey can lose herself. It's up to her.
     
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  14. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Well, since Luke blames the Jedi order and Ben and Yoda for "losing" "Anakin, I guess that's the new trend. No personal responsibility, it's all on someone else (cf Kylo Ren).
     
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  15. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Which is another bit of nonsense that I in no way buy into...

    It's kind of hard to get invested in a story when the themes and morals of the story are so ass-backwards to my value system.
     
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  16. La Calavera

    La Calavera Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    I don’t remember Yoda in the OT chiming in on Obi-Wan for “losing” Anakin. Obi-Wan blamed himself for very personal and understandable reasons, but Yoda regarded Vader/Anakin as someone who was too weak to resist the seduction of the darkside and treated him as such. Yoda didn't regard Vader as Obi-Wan's problem or failure.

    It was weird to hear him saying “lost Poor Ben Solo, did you”, as if the previous woobifying attempts weren’t enough, we need a respected Legacy character to highlight how this is Luke’s fault.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  17. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Rey is the center of this trilogy, but not Luke's life.

    He reconnected to the Force, could sense his sister was in grave danger, and he showed up to help her, and secondarily the Resistance. Much in the way he abandoned his Jedi training, against Yoda's counsel, to run off and help save her over 30 years earlier before he even knew she was his sister.

    The story will always be lost when we talk of characters as strategic pieces in a game of plot chess, and not the emotional creatures they're suppose to be. Luke's actions served a strategic purpose, but his drive was emotional. When you consider Luke's great love for Leia every piece falls into place.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018