Lit Books LOTF - First Time Read Thread - No spoilers post-Invincible

She possibly have responded, "Yea, sorta already figured".....not really though at that point

 

Perhaps from a storytelling standpoint that's another thing the series struggled with, since it's mirroring Anakin.

As a member of the Jedi order of the prequel era, Anakin's not supposed to form familial attachments, so in terms of people that "care" about Anakin, you've really only got Padme and Obi-Wan. So it's a lot easier to isolate Anakin from those people.

Jacen has a whole lot of friends and family that care about him. I guess by making him come back in DNT has an aloof jerk kind of helped, but still...

I think Han's reaction to Jacen in this book is problematic. Especially vis-a-vis TFA. But Jacen was pretty much emotionally broken long before he met Lumiya, because it seems like any effort by his family to get close to him were rebuffed. I think his family would not allow it to reach this point, and I don't think Luke would.

I think they would have figured out what was going on much earlier than they did in this series if they couldn't reach him. Or I think the revelation that he's taken a level in Sith Lord would not have really mattered.

 

Indeed though one must give Lumiya some credit-she further isolated Jacen from his family and sought to create a rift between him and them.

 

I see both Darth Caedus and Kylo Ren as attempts to mirror Anakin Skywalker's fall... but both trying to do the opposite extreme... yet came up with different answers to what the "opposite extreme" is... though with a similar process and end-product. (When the ST is done, I'm looking forward to some in-depth character studies comparing these two )



Jacen becomes Caedus because he's too logical, too emotionally detached. Instead of falling based on emotions like Anakin, the fall of Jacen Solo is based on reason and logical arguments put forth by Lumiya. In doing so, Jacen isn't trying to save one specific person [originally], unlike Anakin with Padme, he is in fact trying to become a Sith by sacrificing who he loves.



Ben Solo becomes Kylo Ren because he's too impulsive, too emotional. Instead of falling based on "fear for loved ones" emotions like Anakin, the fall of Ben Solo seems to be based on subconscious influence and ego-driven temptations put forth by Snoke. In doing so, Ben isn't trying to save one specific person, unlike Anakin with Padme, he is in fact trying to become a proper Dark-Sider by sacrificing who he loves.

 

Jacen's fall was a convoluted one-he fell for Allana, for Luke, for the Galaxy, to stop Krayt(or whoever the Dark Man could have been), and for other reasons.

 

For whatever reason the writers were shoving down our throats through the LOTF, FOTJ and Crucible years.

 

Indeed indeed

 

Makes you wonder if Karen Traviss and Troy Denning frequent the board and realise that their little feud in the books was just an example of why some people look down on their additions to the Star Wars Legends universe.

 

Denning I think has acknowledged his negative reputation in at least some sections of the fandom or at least review sites-if for no other reason than that he killed Jacen and Anakin. But I doubt it bothers him. He always seemed to have a certain tone he wanted the franchise to go in the direction of and wasn't really concerned with justifying himself to those who disagreed-you can see this attitude in the Inferno Round Robin I believe.

I don't know about Karen Traviss.

 

I've just started re-reading Betrayal too, and do remember at the time absolutely loving it.

Were they really feuding? Certainly reads like that in some sense with the starkly different sub-plots in the three authors' books.

 

It was the Mandalorian thing going on between them. Particularly in Revelation and Invincible as well as in relation to the Republic/Imperial Commando novels. Came to a head when Denning poisoned the atmosphere of Mandalore to prevent Fett from going home in Invincible, only for Traviss to do a big "f" you in her last Imperial Commando novel by saying that the nanos used to poison the atmosphere 50 years in the future of the timeline would have no affect whatsoever.

 

Seems bizarre and hugely unprofessional and strange no one stepped in.

 

*ahem*

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...on-for-jacens-turn-to-the-dark-side.50038714/

 

I doubt Fett would have lived another fifty years anyway. Mirta if she lived may have seen Mandalore again but Fett was getting up there in years.

Though the Denning-Traviss feud does seem bizarre, unprofessional, and downright immature at times. They really needed an editor to mediate between them.

 

Ok just literally started Tempest...and the Prologue....2 questions..

1) How the heck did Alema Rar survive the ending of TDN???? I know they give an explanation but the injuries they describe are laughable she'd lived through. This just feels like a soap opera retcon to bring some one back shockingly and to get more use out of them.
2) Also, jw, since she did return, isn't this the worst possible place to put her reveal of returning? It's the very first thing in the book. That just doesn't seem like good writing to me. It'd be a lot more potent as a real shock out of nowhere later and probably better if revealed from the hero's point of view instead of hers too.

Also, looking at the Prologue, it's 21 pages, basically the same length as a standard chapter for these books. Is it just me or does that feel weird for a Prologue? Doesn't a Prologue just give a brief glimpse in either setting up or foreshadowing the book? Maybe, 4-5 pages I'd say.

What I really don't understand, and maybe I'm wrong, but.....I'm not a professional writer and yet I can recognize the writing problems with stuff like this. Why don't the actual writers notice it?

 

I noted before I started a Professional Writing & Editing course that the editing wasn't great and there were inconsistencies throughout every book released after Betrayal.

 

Alema was basically Lumiya's main agent/crony before Jacen became a full fledged Sith Lord.

 

1. It seems that the Killiks just have that group mentality thing going on that allows them to heal better than a normal being would. I got that sense from Raynar being rescued/healed and all.
The fact that she CONTINUES to survive is laughable.

2. 100% agree. All the Alema stuff is random fluff that isn't needed.

It feels weird to have a prologue be the same length as a standard chapter....but I've read a 100-page prologue in a 1000-page book, where the first chapter was only 15-ish pages. So...weird? Yes. Throws me off? No.

 

Fair enough on how she figures into the plot of this book. H/e the issue with yanking her back into existence from certain death in a previous book still exists. Use a new/diff. character to accomplish the plot. Plus, it tells how she survived in the Prologue, it's just not believable much like Saba in TDN. Also, why can't I acknowledge something that doesn't work? It's not working bc of previous info that I've already read. It doesn't matter if it's in the first 5 mins or not. Also, just to say, many films that I felt were bad in the first 5 mins....were horrible all the way through. The first 5 mins can be very indicative of the rest of the movie. That's what has me worried with the book.

Mostly I know, we just see things differently bc we've gone back and forth a lot. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Mm, that's true. Especially at the beginning of LOTF, when Lumiya's presence wasn't initially known.

 

I remember being in complete disbelief when reading an excerpt for Tempest (in the Bloodlines book?) that Alema survived. Still don't care for her living but damn. She aced it in LOTF. I had fun following her in this series.
It's sort of like Darth Maul dying in TPM and coming back in TCW.

 

"The spiderslot found me somewhat indigestible."

 

Once you get over Alema being in LOTF, and her new "state," she's one of the best parts.
I especially like her last bit of dialogue in the series.