Lit Books LOTF - First Time Read Thread - No spoilers post-Invincible

Sure but still, there is some merit in terms of human drama there. That is it’s a compelling narrative-more so I think than Anakin and Padme.

Tenel Ka can’t leave her people, to do so means any work she’s done fails, also she has family there, Jacen has his own ambitions and dreams, and would not give up being a Jedi. There’s also the insane stress on him of keeping it secret. Which adds to even more strain and distance from his family.

I recall in Betrayal-Leia asks Jacen about grandchildren-and he deflects the question. Can you imagine, the sheer emotional strain, the mental burden required to keep that sort of secret from your parents? Your entire family for years and years?

People don’t tell their parents or even their spouses every detail in their lives, but keeping a child a secret, and going to extreme lengths to prevent anyone knowing-even people who would be entirely supportive and would be overjoyed that for you.

^That is what Jacen is doing. He’s putting himself under extraordinary stress and pressure.

Really, it’s amazing he maintains enough composure as it is. And can focus on training Ben or Nelani and worrying about the galaxy and dark visions and not lose his mind.

Yes, Tenel Ka should never have put him in that position, but it’s amazing if you think about it. Jacen isn’t trying to save his own skin, he’s not trying to hide a secret affair to avoid getting kicked out of the order-literally no one in his family would be anything but overjoyed to hear about Allana, and he’s keeping it a secret-not for his joy or self interest, but for the girl’s safety.

That is just incredible.

The fact he and Tenel Ka still try and make their relationship work-when Tenel Ka could cut him loose, and pursue any noble on Hapes, or Jacen could let Tenel Ka worry about Allana and go meet Danni Quee again-or Tahiri or anyone. Yet they don’t break it off even to ease the incredible stress and pressure they’re under.

They stick together, despite the universe keeping them separate more days than not.

If you look at it like that…J/TK is the most compelling romance in SW.

 

Darth Jacen obviously

Jedi King Luke and the Sacrosanct Sect of Masters

Han the Corellia fanboy n°1

The love triangle

 

I'm no mathematician, but I think that was more than one thing.

 

Yeah she is clearly using Jacen to father her child, even though it puts him in a bad position. Even when she has the best opportunity to reveal him, she doesn't. I think she likes keep him at a distance, making sure SHE is the main focus of her child.

 

Apparently Hapan noble culture is just that vicious and cut throat, that any reveal or publicization of Jacen and Tenel Ka's relationship would put her and Allana at serious risk of death.

That is the only justification given for this unhealthy relationship given in text.

 

Isn't Allana already at risk of death due to being the Heir.

Also is that is true, that the Hapen nobles are the problem, then purge them. Strip them of their positions and property. Put loyalists in their places. IF she thinks that ALL her nobles would turn on her if she revealed this, then leave, cause if your support is that low then you won't get anything done.

In LotF, Tenel has defeated the most hardline of her enemies, she now has EVERY reason to reveal Jacen as the father at this point. He is a hero to her loyalists, she also firmly has the backing of the GA, so if anyone else wants to try they are now facing the GA as well. Yet she doesn't. She doesn't even plan to punish the people who rebelled.

 

Presumably…if she tried to do that, they would revolt en masse or have an assassin slit her throat in her sleep. She did face an attempted coup by confederate allied nobles in LOTF(I think).

My guess, and this is probably putting more thought into it than the writers did-is Tenel Ka does not have absolute authority, as monarch, at least not in practice. She has to keep the nobles happy, or at least pacified, because apparently regicide is fair game in Hapan court intrigue.

(Sensibly no monarch would tolerate a situation like this if they had the power to change it), but somehow Tenel Ka can’t or won’t. And she doesn’t strike me as someone who just loves the “the Game” of intrigue to keep things the way they are because it’s fun. So it must be this culture of regicide and fear and violence is not something she can change. At least not in a single day or even a decade.

 

Thing is, if it was such a giant risk and if TK was that powerless against her nobles why father a kid with Jacen at all? Why take that insane risk?

Also how did she manage to apparently have her nation flip sides on a dime with no pushback from the nobles? Cause I doubt they didn’t care the slightest about Kashyyyk.

Thing is the nobles are a plot device, their as strong or influential as the plot demands.

Like in FOTJ Luke muses that TK could give him massive Hapan support against Daala so it seems the nobles don‘t really have a problem with Jedi (also seeing how TK herself was at least on paper part of the order until TDN) but just Jacen himself...

 

Yes they did and then the GA helped her crush them (in Tempest). After Which she thinks that; 1. Jacen is a hero to her loyalists and this is her best chance to reveal him. and 2. That people EXPECT her to punish the people who fought against her and reward her loyalists, but she will 'disappoint everyone'. So she clearly has the ability to purge people and it is expected of her. She just chooses not to.

If she will die because of who father her child then she should not have done it. If her child could be killed for that reason, then sorry she should not have her at court. Have an other child with a noble and have them as heir, then go have one with her lover.

Yeah, it is also bad for the child.

And don't forget TK's grand mother wanted Jaina to be a queen, so it seems like she was fine as well.

 

I suppose she realised that later, when she sent Allana to stay with Han and Leia.

It's possible she didn't want to have children with any random noble, and instead wanted to with her lover. After Allana was born, I doubt she'd do that since she already had an heir. It's possible she did have kids with a noble after sending Allana away.

There doesn't seem to be that much hatred of the Jedi, apart from that group that showed up in Dark Journey to try to kill Tenel Ka (Ni'Korish, I think). Maybe they did have a problem with Jacen, but later when Jacen was a hero, she should have told everyone. There would always be some people who disagree, but it couldn't have been that bad.

 

It was really a bad plot all things considered kind of an early sign of the things to come, both in therms of quality as well as Jacen bashing.

 

Well that is more extreme, but her child could be educated outside the cluster, like Kim Jong-Un went to Switzerland.

Even though by doing that she was putting her child in EXTREME and extra danger? That is selfish.

But Allana is still the heir. That is the problem. If she had one with the nobles first (one for the nation), then I doubt they would care about her second child.

Yeah especially since most of her enemies had just been crushed and a GA fleet was in system. She would likely never have a stronger hand over her nobles.

 

I was comparing Allana to him, being child of the ruler of a reclusive state and educated well away from said state, that is all.

 

I wouldn´t even outrule she becomes something like our Dear Leader North Korea, especially with how much Han and Leia spoil her.

 

To some extend it still was, the GA had no power over them it seemed. Jacen being a major figure in the rest of the galaxy made no impression on the Hapan nobles...

 

Then why doesn't Tenel reveal Allana's father? If he is a sex symbol and a hero then shouldn't that make her kid MORE popular?

 

Darth KFC

 

Re bold; It IS all about her and her people. Luke and Mara and Han and Leia aren't going to KILL her child if the truth comes out. The reason stated in the text was her fear of people killing her child.

Does Hapes have much travel from outside? Trade or migration? Their leader might be politically active but they don't seem that different from Pre-Vong war.

 

Yes unlike that other assassin Corellia aided in attempting to kill her. If you want to bring in later events, then what about the fact that Jacen kidnaps her in Fury? Allana is already a target, but people in story only mention her being in danger from Hapen Nobels, not Corellians or Bothans.

Crossover between what, sorry?

Since the GA seems to be more federal than other governments it seems like those fleets were Hapen Fleets that TK sent to serve with the GA, since Jacen has to ask her to send the ships.