main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Lucas felt betrayed by Disney

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by KING_KENOBI, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. Fistful Of Fistos

    Fistful Of Fistos Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Lucas betrayed himself before Bob Iger betrayed him. He has been insinuating his own fall to the darkside through the Anakin Skywalker character.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  2. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2005
    What?
     
    SlashMan likes this.
  3. Fistful Of Fistos

    Fistful Of Fistos Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Belligerance, that's my opinion. You are welcome to your own opinion. My opinion is that Lucas betrayed his original standards as an artist/director. Then he used Anakin to foreshadow his fall to the darkside with Disney.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  4. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    That's dumb.
     
    Dagobah_Dude and RayO1 like this.
  5. Fistful Of Fistos

    Fistful Of Fistos Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Is it dumb? Prove it's dumb. All opinions are valid.
     
  6. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    I don’t care what he was paid. I don’t care what was on paper. I don’t care whether TROS will top TESB for me.

    Regardless of what I think of Disney’s content, I’ve gotten angrier and angrier that George and his treatments were tossed aside. I’m not even saying to follow them to the T, although that wouldn’t be the worst idea.

    I’m just saying to respect him as the creator of the vast, expansive world you gave taken from him.


    I don’t believe Lucas “fell to the dark side.” I believe he was rightfully tired of how some fans were treating him, and he was getting on in years to boot. He doesn’t want to spend his last quarter hearing more about how he continues to ruin childhoods. He didn’t ruin mine, even though I haven’t always loved the PT, he made my childhood better with what he created.

    Even if Iger didn’t outright lie to George, he still didn’t give him the courtesey that he deserves. They owe much of their financial success with the new Star Wars films to George’s original vision, whether all the details of it were well-executed or not.


    I can forgive “Icky Gicky Goo” a lot more than destroying the central character of the OT. I don’t mean to bash at all, I just feel this was done to George and Luke especially.


    All opinions are indeed valid, but this is mine. I’m open to discussion and I’m not ranting just to vent. Just my two cents on how I feel George was treated.
     
  7. Guidman

    Guidman Skywalker Saga Mod and Trivia/Book Host star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2016
    This wasn't the Lufthansa heist. Nothing was taken from him. They paid him $4B, which included an equity portion.

    They've used portions or ideas of what he had: hermit Luke and Kira essentially morphed into Rey.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  8. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    When I said that, what I meant that they had taken responsibility for the world he created. Not that he was conned.


    And did Lucas mean for Luke to become a near-murderer? If he did, then I wouldn’t feel so bad. My complaint isn’t that he was a hermit, it’s that he was the supposedly the catalyst for everything bad in the ST.

    To those of you who feel differently, I genuinely don’t want to shame you and I don’t at all mean that you have to agree.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  9. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Does this have to be a Lucas bashing thread? Yes, he sold his company to Disney. Yes, he should have gotten whatever he wanted story wise put into a contract but he didn't. For heaven's sake let the man be disappointed without dragging him over the coals for it. :rolleyes:
     
    CISMestizo, RayO1, KyleKartan and 8 others like this.
  10. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    "He can't be upset, he's a billionaire." That's not an argument. If there's one person whose Star Wars opinion carries more weight than anyone else's it's the creator. Fans, and now filmmakers alike have formed their own perception of what Star Wars should be, but there's only one person who has been able to make the judgment call for what Star Wars is. Bob Iger is smart and savvy, but it comes across as a bit of hubris when he tries to explain that Lucas didn't understand Star Wars. It seems to me that Lucas knew a lot of the pitfalls and storytelling shortcuts that could be taken with the series as he was so ardent that certain EU events didn't happen in the past.

    Not following his plans wasn't the source of his disdain, making a disappointing movie [in Lucas' eyes] was. Whether by force or out of professional courtesy, I'm glad Lucas was not outspoken about his feelings on the movie. That would have created a generally bad vibe around a generally happy time for the Star Wars community. Furthermore, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts on The Last Jedi. At the surface level, you can draw parallels based on the more unique plot elements and divisive reception to the prequel years.
     
  11. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Agreed. I could never imagine thinking that anyone knew Star Wars better than the man who created it all.
     
  12. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    [/QUOTE] Furthermore, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts on The Last Jedi. At the surface level, you can draw parallels based on the more unique plot elements and divisive reception to the prequel years.[/QUOTE]

    Agree.

    “Beautifully made” is vague, it doesn’t say much about his overall opinion, it could mean he likes the visuals, the dialogue, the costumes, etc.

    The fact that Iger said that Lucas said this as well as the fact that this is all we know about Lucas’ view is telling. Iger could very well have been selecting the best thing Lucas had to say, or Lucas could likely have been choosing not to cause drama by stating anything beyond that or allowing anything else to be made public.
     
  13. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Disney would be smart to gather up Lucas's remaining ideas from those script treatments and integrate them into new films. They should be integrated at film-canon level. Gather up those ideas while Lucas is living.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
    Deliveranze and Emperor Ferus like this.
  14. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Lucas has the right to criticize the films just like anyone does. He's the creator of the whole universe. If the creator of Star Wars can't feel upset by Disney or even betrayed by what they've done, then how can we feel justified having our own opinions about the films?

    Just because Stephen King got some money out his films deals, he can't feel disappointed by the movie versions of his novels? (like he does with many, including The Shining -- which I think is great) If Tolkien were still around, he's not allowed to feel betrayed if he found the planned LOTR prequel series artistically bankrupt for being commercial cash grab or for whatever reason he wants?

    However, there's more to this issue and all you have to do is watch the following video to see why.



    This is the Disney released video in which Lucas reveals that he's selling Star Wars to Disney. He also explains that he has written treatments for Ep 7 - 9, that he's giving them to Kennedy, and that he has "complete confidence that she's going to take them (i.e. the treatments) and make great movies."

    At the time marked above, Kennedy accepts that she and Disney have become the new caretakers for Star Wars, and she says, "The main thing is to protect these characters, make sure that they still continue to live in the way that you (referring to Lucas) created them."

    So, Disney has Lucas's treatments detailing what's next for his characters, and Kennedy says that Disney will make sure that these characters will still continue to live in the way that Lucas created them. Considering these words, it's pretty hard to argue that Disney isn't acknowledging here that they don't have an obligation to adhere to Lucas's basic vision for the sequel trilogy. They pretty much come right out and say just this. It's the "main thing," as she says, that she and Disney have to do.

    Even if you're loose with your interpretation of her words, they are at least an admission that the characters can't deviate in a way that Lucas would disapprove of, and that certainly has occurred. Among evidence for this is that Lucas surely didn't write copy paste job of ANH as his treatment for Ep. 7 -- which had Luke as a major character btw. Further evidence: Hamill's statements that he strongly preferred Lucas's direction for his character over Johnson's, and adding insult to injury, Luke was the figurative embodiment of George in the films (Luke = Lucas). More strong evidence: Lucas had treatments for 3 films, yet Rian Johnson's Ep 8 was radically different from Treverow's (so, 1 and probably both deviated strongly from Lucas's treatment.)

    In this video, Kennedy also says: "It's important that he (Lucas) at least continue to be a little guardian angel on my shoulder helping me finish this" (implying the need for Lucas's involvement throughout the ST)

    In the following video in this series, Kennedy says: "As we work our way through these scripts, if we're sitting and saying. 'hmmm, I wonder if this character can do that' or 'does this make sense within the rules of Star Wars,' then really he (Lucas) is the keeper of the flame when it comes to that." However, Disney didn't stay true to this either -- with Rey quickly gaining her powers with no training when Kylo attempts to read her mind and his skills being passed to her, and when Snoke explains that Rey, again without any training, is becoming stronger in the Force because as dark side rises the light side increases as well to compensate.

    Here's my most important point, however.

    I share these videos not only because it shows Kennedy admitting that Disney has at least some type of an obligation to stay true to Lucas's vision but also -- perhaps more importantly -- because it tells Star Wars fans how much strong of a connection there was supposed to be between the new films and the creator of the franchise. With Lucas, you can argue, "Well, Kennedy may have said that, but it really goes back to the deal that he signed. He's just being naive if he's relying on her word."

    For fans, that's not true. We only have what Disney told us, and what Disney chose to tell us in the set of videos representing the changing of the guard from Lucas to Disney was that Disney would protect Lucas's characters and preserve and develop them in accordance with Lucas's vision of them (which is pretty easy to confirm by consulting with him) and that the ST would follow the rules of the universe as Lucas defines them. Disney has since failed in both respects.

    Disney created this set of expectations among fans in the very videos that they produced. They established that there would be strong connection between the ST and Lucas's long term vision. So, at this point, nobody, including Disney themselves, can criticize fans for feeling angry because the films fail to come close enough to what Lucas would've wanted. It was Disney who told the fans it was going to be this way in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  15. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 2017
    This video above has Lucas mentioning his treatments for "7, 8, and 9 and a bunch of other movies" at 1:30. Definitely this clip is worth revisiting.
     
    RayO1 and Emperor Ferus like this.
  16. El Jedi Colombiano

    El Jedi Colombiano Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Once again Darth Nerdling laying it out as it is ^:)^^:)^^:)^^:)^^:)^^:)^
     
  17. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    It's a bit complicated, as I love George and he is the creator. But he did more than just sell the rights to a novel, he sold the rights to everything for an enormous sum of money. To someone he hand picked. As for using his treatments; that's a bit on the lawyers as he should have gotten that in the contract if he felt that strongly about it. But he has the right to be upset.
     
  18. oierem

    oierem Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    George tends to be quite experimental in his cinematic choices. I would say pretty much every film he's done he has hard no to repeat himself, not to do the obvious. Even more so, his story treatments tend to be even more extreme a lot of the times.
    So in a way, it's easy to see why Disney wouldn't want to make a ST that subverted the expectations of the audience (as the PT did), and instead wanted to do something "for the fans".
     
  19. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    They did subvert expectations to me, and they tried too hard. I certainly did not expect Luke to irreverently toss away his father’s lightsaber, or be tempted to kill Leia’s son in his sleep, not in his 30s-40s.
     
  20. Pensivia

    Pensivia Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    does anybody have any reliable source links for the above? i am familiar with the little things from further back (like Hamill saying that when he saw GL at the TFA premiere, he whispered "It'll never be the same" into GL's ear when he hugged him, and the various comments Hamill made in interviews during the press for the TLJ release. but does anyone know of any (again, reliable) stories about more recent examples/evidence of this?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  21. StarYogi

    StarYogi Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Hamill has said in interviews that he and George talk on the phone quite frequently.
     
  22. C.Roach

    C.Roach Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 3, 2018
    Great! Maybe he can convince his friend to take a step in the right direction and do something about restoring and releasing the original versions.[face_laugh]
     
  23. CaptainSuchandSuch

    CaptainSuchandSuch Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    I basically came to terms with the betrayal of Lucas a few years back.

    I went through my phase of disappointment back in December '15 when George had the Charlie Rose interview, and then I saw how much of TFA recycled ANH.

    But by the time TLJ came out, I just made my peace with it. So many people loved the Disney movies, so I decided I would accept Disney's direction. I knew it wasn't Lucas's direction or even my direction, but I would take what I could enjoy out of Disney's pseudo-canon.

    I think that's why I was different from many in my reaction to TLJ. I already got my fill of disappointment with TFA. So I just decided to accept TLJ, and I enjoyed what it gave us. I actually thought it also gave some potential to put the ST back on track to being better connected to the saga.

    Of course, whether TROS can sustain that, or if it will only complete the ST's fan-fictionization, is yet to be seen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
    RayO1, KyleKartan and Deliveranze like this.
  24. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Biggest RYL PT Fan Award Winner star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Lucas has a right to be upset. It isn't so much that they decided not to use his treatments, but they crafted their story in a way that was deriding everything Lucas made between 1999-2005. Real effects, the magic of the OT, Jar Jar may get a cameo as some bones, podracing flag deletion, etc. In some ways, if your interpret TFA as a soft reboot and the anti-thesis to the PT, I could understand Lucas feeling more upset about that in the end.
     
  25. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    I think that Lucas is also disappointed, like some other fans, that what we've essentially gotten is Empire vs. Rebellion all over again, with a lot of the same beats. Him saying "there's nothing new here" about TFA is one of the most telling statements I think.

    They could have made a classical FEELING SW film, without resorting to basically the same conflict all over again (and making the end of the OT feel retroactively meaningless for many people). I think that Iger and co may have simply gotten TOO hung up "making a film to bring the fans back" after awhile.
     
    CISMestizo, Shadao, RayO1 and 5 others like this.