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Lucas felt betrayed by Disney

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by KING_KENOBI, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. superstardestroyer-1

    superstardestroyer-1 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    Where was it part of the terms from Iger that they'd agree to use the outlines? That's the first I've heard of it. Everything I've read, including Iger's statements on the issue were that they all agreed they needed to buy them. That if George Lucas had drafts for new Star Wars laying around, you'd be crazy not to buy them. But, Iger also said they were clear they were under no obligation to use them.

    Reading between the lines, I always took that as they were buying them to keep them out of the public domain. By making them the intellectual property of Disney, they be less likely to surface years down the road and be touted by certain segments of the fanbase as the "real" Star Wars sequel trilogy. Of course, that's what some are, in fact, trying to say, but that's a difficult argument because the fact that Disney owns them keeps them from, so far, leaking onto the web. My guess is that someday they will be leaked, but it will be in a time, manner, and format of Disney's choosing.

    Honestly, I have little doubt that if they hadn't been bought by Disney they'd probably have leaked on the web by now with Lucas claiming plausible deniability as to whether or not he was the one who leaked them or someone else who had access to his material.
     
  2. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 2017
    I have not seen much discussion on the following: George is now a major Disney stock holder. As a major stock holder, George can exert some control over Disney. How much control can he exert over Disney? That is unknown. However, if Disney gets in trouble with federal regulations, Disney's control over Star Wars IP and Fox IP may need to change.

    Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy will have "done their thing" after Episode 9 is released. After they have stepped down and retired, the future of SW films is unknown. There are certainly limits on how much Disney can expand its business. The scrutiny that Disney's acquisition of Fox received shows that there are limits on how far U.S. regulators will allow Disney to expand. For instance, let's say Disney could be forced to sell Lucasfilm and Fox.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  3. Gai' Phó

    Gai' Phó Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 2, 2018
    That's what I previously thought, but the book George Lucas: A Life says otherwise. According to the Star Wars sequel trilogy Wikipedia article, "Lucas's final stipulations before the sale in late 2012 were that his story treatments would be used and that the number of Disney employees who could read them would be limited."
     
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  4. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Which makes sense considering what has been reported before. Why would Lucas care so much about the treatments being part of the deal if not to be used? Why would Iger make it a point to have Disney have final say on things on what goes and what doesn't (which basically overrides everything) if there was no stipulation to use the treatments?
     
  5. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Although I'm on GL's side in all of this, I do think that it's unclear how much Iger made clear that they would have the final say and how much GL genuinely thought that they were under a 'gentlemen's agreement' that they would use his treatments.
     
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  6. superstardestroyer-1

    superstardestroyer-1 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    But if those were really binding terms of the sale, why isn't there a lawsuit going on now? The way I see it: there's Disney's side, there's Lucas side, and truth is somewhere in the middle.
     
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  7. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Lawsuit based on what? Having final say, at the end of the day, trumps any promise of adapting anything. That's why Iger insisted on not having any binding obligations.
     
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  8. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    'Stipulations' suggest something written into the contract.
     
  9. Gai' Phó

    Gai' Phó Jedi Padawan star 1

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    May 2, 2018
    I'm sure the truth being "somewhere in the middle" is about right. Hopefully we'll know more when Lucas gives his thoughts on IX, and whether or not he still feels betrayed by white slavers....
     
  10. superstardestroyer-1

    superstardestroyer-1 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    Exactly my point. I don't buy that there was anything binding in the deal, even if Lucas says it was his understanding, that would have required them to use the stories. If there had been, he'd have reason to push the issue. He doesn't.

    And, if Lucas thought he had assurances based on a handshake and nothing in writing...that makes him kind of a fool, and that's on him.
     
  11. StarYogi

    StarYogi Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2005
    And one can assume that Lucas also has the best intellectual property lawyers money can buy. He wouldn't have signed anything without his lawyers scrupulously analyzing the agreement beforehand.
     
  12. superstardestroyer-1

    superstardestroyer-1 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    and "adapting" is a weak word from a legal perspective. One could argue that Disney and Lucasfilm have, in fact, "used" his story treatments. From everything we've been told they've used ideas from Lucas' sequel trilogy treatments. They've adapted what they've liked, but haven't used the bulk of the story themselves. So, even if something like this saw a courtroom, Lucas would be on weak legal ground because Disney can reasonably say they have "used" his treatments.

    Unless there's something iron clad in the contract that gave him exclusive rights to write the script, or final rights of revision on any stories, I think he'd be out of luck. He knows this as well which is why he's sat in the wings.
     
  13. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    It doesn't really matter which word was used. Lucas would be on a weak legal ground from the point where it's established in the purchase agreement that Disney would have final say on things. Even if it was mentioned that they would adapt Lucas' story to the tiniest detail, from the moment that having final say is stipulated, it overrides any possible commitment to a creative decision. It's a legal cop out.

    Yeah, let's ignore the deception and the deceiver and blame the guy (excuse me, the fool) who had the goodwill to trust someone he had known for years. After all, he made it clear in the purchase agreement.

    Nobody (not even Lucas) is questioning the legality of what they did. Honor, integrity, and respect is not mandatory by law, nor is betrayal in and on itself punishable by law. Discussing wether what he did is legal or not is a giant strawman.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  14. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    I don't think that we can say with too much surety that it was represented to GL that they would use his treatments or whether he made that assumption himself.

    The former was almost certainly not actually written within the contract. If combined with the latter it would have the ability to invalidate the contract.
     
  15. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 12, 2017
    Stipulation is an agreement between parties to a contract. Disney bought the Lucas story treatments for the Sequel Trilogy. The sale of these story treatments appears to be a separate transaction from Disney's cash and stock transaction to acquire Lucasfilm. Both of these transactions have given Disney exclusive control over SW Sequel films and future works derived from the Lucas story treatments.

    Disney's position was clear at the time of the acquisition. George's position was also clear.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  16. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    You don't know that they were two different sales.

    I'm any case no lawyer would insert these contradictory terms in two different sales contracts unless they were incompetent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  17. Felicia

    Felicia Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2012
    It is in my opinion that Lucas outsmarted himself. He placed Kathleen Kennedy in the role she is in before the sale. Kennedy is the one who should be taking the brunt of the blame and not Disney.

    I feel that once Feighe gets in there the movies will become a lot better and more organized. They might even manage to keep a few directors to boot.
     
  18. R.D.

    R.D. Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Kind of this to me; as I understand it, Lucas' story concepts were slightly scattershot, and in any case, some of his ideas--like a female protagonist, a planet covered in OT battle detritus, and a 'Jedi Killer'--ended up in there in some form. However, unless I've missed something it's hard to say just how much Iger promised him concretely.
     
  19. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 12, 2017
    George's intention was to retire and relinquish control of Star Wars. Disney's intention was to acquire Star Wars. I never suggested contradictory terms. I have suggested that Lucas changes his positions depending on what year it is. But Lucas is still the creator of SW so his gut reactions are important.

     
  20. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Okay. Not really sure what that has to do with what is said but anyway.
     
  21. Gai' Phó

    Gai' Phó Jedi Padawan star 1

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    May 2, 2018
    As much as he's earned the right to do a Star Wars movie, I really hope he's not being 'groomed' to take over the franchise. The last thing Star Wars needs is to become homogenized to the visions of only a couple creatives. Instead, an entire generation that grew up with Lucas's universe should be free to tell their stories... with someone in charge to keep things on brand and relevant from a marketing standpoint.

    I don't understand all the criticism towards Kennedy. Without someone of her caliber, there wouldn't be any story coherence. She's been able to rein in talent like Abrams (who can easily reboot franchises, but needed to be pushed somewhat to finish a story arc). Even if some fans don't love all the films, no one could have foreseen every outcome—but there's always logic behind each decision. (My biggest criticism is an over-reliance on female British leads/Game of Thrones actors.)
     
  22. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Can Disney please give me 4 bn$ so I can feel betrayed too?
     
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  23. Felicia

    Felicia Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Feighe is most likely being groomed to take Bob Igers place. One of my issues with Kennedy is that it just seems like she doesn't understand Star Wars.

    She allowed Rian Johnson to write scenes that go against the make up of Star Wars. Tie Fighters always scramble first in all of the movies. Not in RJs movie though.

    There is also the scene where the pink haired lady just destroys a Drednaight by ramming it. If it was that easy why hasn't it always been that way. If it's something new I'd like to see someone in The Rise of Skywalker take the lead star Destroyer down that way. I bet they won't even mention it.

    Then there is the situation with that feminist robot. That thing was just one cringe worthy scene after another. One where she was cutting g the fence where the Falcon was held and she asked everyone to "look away" is just the tip of the iceberg.

    Some of the things she allows in those film's are just ridiculous.
     
  24. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Star Wars has always been pretty freaking weird though.

    I mean, the Ewoks were a huge plot point in RotJ, and they were essentially teddy bears. And that was way more 'immersion breaking' than "The Tie Fighters weren't scrambled first".
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  25. Felicia

    Felicia Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2012
    These are established rules that Lucas set up. Out if everything I wrote you picked that out. The Ewoks were vicious. You see teddy bears but I see viscious little animals who will roast you alive and then eat you.

    Did you ever wonder what happened to the storm troopers whose helmets were being banged on at the end of Jedi? The Ewoks must have had a big meal that night.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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