Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by KING_KENOBI, Sep 24, 2019.
there's an expression "you can't have your cake and eat it too."
It is safe to say Disney has/will recoup its financial investment to acquire Lucasfilm. Star Wars is moving to television and then we will enter a new era without films planned. In the middle of all that, Lucas might feel betrayed and Bob, himself, is moving closer to retirement. Will Disney hold on to all of its acquisitions (extensions) forever? Disney's core businesses may eventually suffer with all of these acquisitions. I'm anticipating the next era for Disney when all the dust settles, the hype wears off, and the reality of managing all of these separate businesses sets in.
How is money a factor in this discussion?
The fact that GL received money and sold his life's work doesn't mean he does not have the right to feel betrayed, and that's an absurd thing to say in my opinion. He could have received 4 trillion dollars for all I care, emotions and feelings about your art and your life's work do not depend on how much money you got. These are two completely separate things.
I'm in agreement that Lucas has every right to feel betrayed by Disney and be vocal about the betrayal. He became somewhat vocal in the one-hour Charlie Rose interview that produced the "White Slavers" comment. He obviously has deep emotions below the surface. Interview him for an hour or longer and those emotions may come right up to the surface. I sense friction between JJ Abrams and Lucas in media snippets.
In regards to the money aspect, it was important for Disney to recoup its investment on Lucasfilm and push Star Wars forward. Disney appears to have done that in the first five years. What's next? Hopefully not more of the same.
It's true that the Empire was defeated, but the First Order is led by a different dictator, with many of its generals being the same guys who were part of the original Empire. It's not that hard to believe that a tyrannical organization would have a regime change, rebrand itself, and continue basically the same old plan.
They could have made a sequel trilogy that was way different, but I think some form of intergalactic conflict needs to happen, and I wouldn't want that to be so loosely science-fantasy that the basic structure of the franchise falls apart. I have my qualms with the ST, but at least it was grounded in both classic SW tropes & a sense of realism.
You're missing my point. The first 6 films all flow from one film to the next. Going from Jedi to TFA, there is no flow. Jedi ends with the big happy ending. You pop TFA in right after it, and you're like "What the heck just happened? I thought they had the BIG WIN last movie?"
It's literally the same with A New Hope though. Hell, Lucas originally planned it's ending so it could be a standalone film in case the others didn't get made.
Oh, he has every right to say it.
The 4 billion just makes me care significantly less.
Well yeah, no one forced him to sell Star Wars, so...
Some of that 4 billion was in 37.1 million in Disney stock shares, making Lucas one of the biggest owners in Disney stock. Lucas can exert influence on Disney after the acquisition. Lucasfilm hasn't changed its name.
Mostly because of who he is and if he wants to say something there's no shortage of people in the media that will give him a spotlight. He didn't leverage his shares into any real power within the company the way Steve Jobs (took a position on the Disney Board of Directors) or Ike Perlmutter (remained the CEO of Marvel Entertainment) did after they sold their respective companies.
It's NOT the same with a New Hope, though. Not at all. At the end of that movie, they have destroyed he Death Star and that's it. I never for one second feel they've beaten the Empire. The main bad guy is shown escaping at the end, for crying out loud.
Compare that to Jedi, where not only do they destroy the Death Star, but they take out the Executor as well. Vader dies, the Emperor dies, Admiral Piett dies, Boba Fett dies, Jabba the Hutt dies. They effectively take every single bad guy from the first two movies off the board. THAT is an ending.
Vader surviving A New Hope basically says, yeah the good guys won this round, but the main baddy lived so there will be a sequel. The story isn't over. Even as a five year old in the theatre watching the ending of this movie, I knew there was gonna be more.
Lucas may have set it up so it could be a standalone, but he also set it up so there could be a sequel. Jedi wasn't set up to have a sequel.
He doesn't have a right to feel "betrayed", as he wasn't betrayed. He sold the company of his own volition to keep it going, ie. "I wanted to retire" and "I give my blessing for the creations to become bigger/broader than just my input".
He didn't have to do that, if he was intent on I-VI being the be-all-end-all of the Star Wars movie story he could have granted Disney the exclusive broadcast/merch rights to those in perpetuity with an agreed-upon clause that they wouldn't get to make more films. He didn't do that.
Sounds like there was more of a misunderstanding over the treatments he provided, than anything more. Iger says maybe he could have been more clear/emphatic that buying the treatments didn't mean they were under any obligation to use them (which let's be honest, heart-of-hearts George knew anyway, selling the company was a long in-depth process with all the t's crossed and i's dotted, any claims of confusion on terms is laughable).
Any number of things he could have done with Lucasfilm if he wanted to bow out and enjoy his retirement years. Pass the company off to his kids, shut it down for good, give it to Fox, whatever. What came to pass is he a) got to hand-pick its company head, one of his best friends going back 35 years+, and b) in his own words sold to Disney because he felt it was the best place for it.
All of which was his call. Nobody betrayed anyone, no matter how George feels about the two saga films.
The controversy seems overblown in the first place, he can't be too p*ssed, between his set visits to Rogue One & Solo and his collaboration on some of The Mandalorian.
Agreed 100% to everything you've said. I'd add his rumored big involvment in Ep IX from the beginning of its script writing.
Nope. You're making way too many assumptions about what GL knew and what he didn't know. Clearly, he felt betrayed and he had 100% reason to feel betrayed, if he was under the impression they would respect his saga and his treatments. Since you weren't there, you cannot tell ANY human what they should and what they shouldn't feel, that's pretty harsh in my opinion.
I feel he was betrayed too, so who's to say if he was or wasn't. The fact that he graced them with his presence during TROS' filming is actually very honorable. And perhaps he didn't want the whole ship to sink, as initial test screenings have reported. Since we weren't there, that's one more thing we can't know.
All of us can be supporters or not of the films we like and dislike, but that shouldn't make us biased against someone's feelings. Everything that Bob Iger and KK have said since the news broke only but confirm that there was clearly a misunderstanding.
If you want you can consider GL a stupid person for not taking precautions with a different contract, or too gullible, or a liar or I don't know what, we've seen all kinds of excuses against GL in this forum. I for one, won't ever see him as the bad guy or the guy who can't complain because he got money.
He is both ethically and legally to openly (or not) criticize anything LFL and Disney do with Star Wars in my opinion.
If George didn't know any of this stuff, his lawyers & business advisors are total incompetents. Which clearly they're not.
You're seriously going to say Iger told him they'd definitely use the treatments he provided, when they bought them? If you can substantiate that, great, you're right. You can't though. What this is, is "George provided some treatment ideas, Disney bought them as an option, and ultimately decided to go another way."
Which is more than within their rights. Kathleen's a million times closer to George than she is to Iger, and she's powerful/influential enough a producer to not have to be some company yes-woman - she puts her foot down, Iger either listens or he fires & replaces her. He didn't do that.
Nobody's called George a liar. Just that he knew exactly what he was getting into, if he's claiming Disney was obligated to use his pitch (which he hasn't), then that's beyond unreasonable. Guy's entitled to feel how he wants about the new stuff. That's just a completely different animal to any notion of him being screwed over. George Lucas is one of the few people powerful enough in the industry that Disney couldn't screw over if they wanted to. If George feels the terms weren't clear, he has an army of his own personal lawyers & business bigwigs to take it up with, chew out. Iger didn't tell him "we're buying your treatments with the understanding we'll definitely use them". He bought them as an option so they could if they so wanted to. George knew this, he's not a moron.
Not sure why you keep bringing on the legal stuff. No one says that anyone did anything illegal. I really don't want another 3 paragraphs of how Disney did not break any contracts or laws, I know that already. And I could not care less honestly, the worst atrocities in this world have also been legal, so I don't care for this aspect.
George Lucas feels he got screwed over. You don't seem to think so, that's fine. But you can't tell him how to feel. And I agree with him 100%. His one mistake is trusting certain people who he thought would actually respect his life's work, it's as simple as that. It's at least unethical to remove him the right to feel any way he wants to or the right to say he got screwed over, if he ever said that.
I like the part where you ignore the seasoned Imperial veteran being exasperated that Hux didnt scramble TIEs "five bloody minutes ago!!" Or that in the succeeding encounters TIEs were scrambled and devastated the Resistance fleet.
Or that the "feminist robot" was actually advocating *droid* rights.
We are fortunate that Lucas did not completely mute his feelings after the acquisition and become a recluse living in Las Vegas. He is giving back to communities. What he sais is important.
The feminist robot parallels feminist attitudes and principles that are related to by the audience. Feminism claims to be for human rights, and “droid rights” are paralleled to human rights.
And that’s why I dislike Disney’s take... and really the prequel take that became political. The original was Lucas creating and and inventing tools to tell an epic sized story. He calls it a “space opera” and operas have very simple stories, but VERY elaborate scenery and effects. There was a journey, hero, bad guy, damsel, anti hero, and a colorful cast of characters. It wasn’t over complicated, the politics were muted because they weren’t the focus, and the story was an ESCAPE for the viewers.
Star Wars has become saturated with politics and parallels to reality that it’s harder and harder to get enthralled by the story. You’re constantly jarred back to reality with the sentiments it’s shoving down your throat. And if you don’t agree or don’t enjoy it... why then you are a disgruntled, fascist, racist, sexist fanboy... according to the mantra of the new actors and executives. And people eat that up. It’s sad. And the story suffers.
Disney doesn’t care about the creativity or a coherent story that respects the original. It’s a money machine that’s hopping on every trend to prove that it’s innovative and the pinnacle of entertainment... without anything substantial to show for that claim.
And I may not agree with George Lucas all the time on story... but it’s gotta be painful to sell your baby to an organization that he hoped had its best interests at heart... only to see it be rushed, whored out for merchandise, and a theme park made before the ink dried.
May William Goldman NEVER do the same to The Princess Bride. Disney wants it. *shudders*
That's, uh, almost exactly what George himself did. Have you even heard the story of how Star Wars got made?
Watched a documentary on it. Lucas depended on the merch to fund future films. And numerous toy corporations benefitted from developing products and selling them. And once everything had done as well as it did, Lucas was able to build his empire for filming technique and education. He’s a true creator and innovator. And shared the Star Wars rights to allow for authors, gamers, and toy companies to keep the franchise alive and evolving.
Disney owns everything now. And sits on its horde pile unless it benefits its own accounts. Not it’s reputation, and certainly not for the sake of future creators that also love the Star Wars lore.
So, it's innovative if you sell out early, but not if you sell out later. Gotcha.
Also: Acting like Lucas EVER cared about the Star Wars lore.
How did he sell out early? He owned the rights. He could do what he wanted with it.
He sold out the moment he handed it over to Disney and cut the strings. Making merch and an empire when you own the rights to YOUR brain baby is not “selling out” it’s good business strategy AND protecting creativity over your assists.
I don’t understand your sentiment?
Futhermore... he created awesome worlds and the religion of the Force. So yeah. I’m not acting... I BELIEVE it.
I guess my whole point here is that it doesn't really matter to me what billion dollar corporation owns the rights to Star Wars. Lucas and Disney both had their own issues with the property. I just couldn't care less about a billionaire lamenting the fact he sold a property for billions. And I care even less about the argument that Lucas making a merchandising empire is somehow less shady than Disney doing... the exact same thing. Like Lucas somehow didn't actually do the thing he did because he's an 'auteur' and 'was doing it for the franchise'.
Well when you can’t see past the billionaire, fine... I understand your perspective. I just think this has more to do with Lucas as a creator, rather than his bank account. I tend to have more of a respect for the creators that keep an empire running and respect for its teams and fans...
... rather than a corporation that no longer has an original member, or replacements with similar mindsets to the creators, a ceo that rewards himself with bonus billions while there is injustice, underpayment, and uninsured workers who adamantly testify that things are getting worse.
If you have insight into poor treatment at Skywalker Ranch, I would be more than interested to hear about it.