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CT Luke’s Force choke

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by libraryMom1, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Padme: wears black at the fireside in AOTC she is no Sith mastermind or slimy politician
    Han wears mostly dark colours in ESB

    Krennick dresses in pure white he is no mother Theresa
    Storm Troopers wear white as do the FO troopers they are no keepers of the peace.

    I'm sorry I am not seeing the color symbolism you speak of, so you are probably correct about it being pointless continuing this line of discussion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  2. BlackRanger

    BlackRanger Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Stormtroopers wear white because they're meant to look like skeletons. Vader and the Emperor wear black because they're Evil. Han wears a white shirt under his dark vest/jacket, to indicate he's a good person under a cynical exterior. Luke and Leia wear white in ANH because they're Good. And even then, Luke wears an organic off-white while Leia wears a starker technological white.

    This costume color symbolism is very deliberate, and is something George Lucas has repeatedly referred to in interviews. It's not at all a stretch.

    Trouble comes with viewing the films in internal-chronology order, rather than the order in which they were made. Because the OT played the symbolism relatively straight, but subverting that idea (e.g. with Krennic, because why not have your villain clad in angelic white?) gets more attractive as the series goes on.
     
  3. Prime Jedi

    Prime Jedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2018
    I could see the force choke and Luke's introduction as mysterious as a way to get the audience to essentially go ".....what happened?" though I still think that Luke was firmly in the light in the beginning of ROTJ. From my interpretation of the film, Luke didn't seriously consider using the dark side until confronting Vader. Even then, he stayed firmly with the light, not really channeling the dark until Palpatine started manipulating him, and his anger started overwhelming his emotions. As for the possibility of Luke using the force choke at all meaning him using the dark side, I'm not sure, but if we look at legends material, Plo Koon did create/use Electric Judgement, which was pretty much a light side version of force lightning-a power that itself is much more sinister than force choke, considering you pretty much have to have the intent to harm someone to use it.

    Or at least that's what I understand :p
     
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  4. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Aug 25, 2014
    not saying it's a stretch, I'm just not going to conclude Luke being close to dark simply because of wearing black garments. Others can and do see it that way and that is totally fine.

    Conclusion: I do not see Luke's actions in that scene as particularly dark. Nor would I conclude that Obi-Wan should do a bit of meditating and consult with Yoda via the force if he stepped outside his Tattooine hut wearing black trousers.
     
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  5. Prime Jedi

    Prime Jedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2018
    One you put on the dark clothes, forever will it dominate your destiny.

    :p
     
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  6. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Padme wears black because it is the color of seduction and forbidden temptation (hence why dominatrices famously wear black leather), which is what that scene is all about. The black leather is also, arguably, a reference to what Anakin will one day wear as Vader, as there are several references to future events in the scene (the flames in the background, the choker around Padme's neck, Anakin's "The thought of not being with you...I can't breathe").

    As for Han's costume and the white armor of the stormtroopers, why not just have George Lucas himself explain it you:

    The particular meaning of a color changes on the specific context--for example, white can alternately signify purity (positive) or sterility (negative)--but colors do have meaning, and Lucas in particular is very deliberate about the way he employs colors to communicate such meanings.

    In the case of Luke Skywalker entering the film wearing the colors of his evil father, who represents the path Luke can either choose to follow or reject--the central question pertaining to Luke's arc in the film--the symbolism is not particularly ambiguous. The fact that he then goes on to employ his father's trademark move--using his mechanical hand, which will soon be garbed in a black glove evoking his father's--only solidifies the symbolism.

    There's also this, which I posted before:

    [​IMG]

    After sparing Vader and affirming his status as a Jedi, and thus finally choosing his path, Luke's black costume comes undone to reveal the white underneath, evoking the imagery of yin and yang and symbolizing the light that lies within all darkness.

    Mark Hamill's costume didn't come undone by accident. The hundreds of cast and crew members involved didn't just leave it undone because they were careless. The interior of the costume wasn't colored white by pure happenstance. Luke's outer costume, likewise, wasn't colored black by pure happenstance. These are all deliberate choices.

    This is where your misunderstanding is most glaring. Obi-Wan can't just decide to step out of his Tatooine hut wearing black for no reason at all, the way you or I can in real life. The reason he can't do this is because Obi-Wan is not a real person. The artist in charge of depicting Obi-Wan has to make a choice to clothe Obi-Wan in black. More often than not, especially in these sorts of films, the artist's choice is intended to evoke something specific.

    If you disagree, the burden is on you to argue why an alternative interpretation makes more sense. Completely writing off any and all symbolism--especially of a type this basic--simply because you choose not to believe in such things isn't really an option if you want to seriously participate in a film analysis discussion. Taking such a tack will simply leave you out of the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  7. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    There's also this.

    BILL MOYERS: Joseph Campbell once said all the great myths, the ancient great stories, have to be regenerated in every generation. He said that's what you are doing with Star Wars. You are taking these old stories and putting them into the most modern of idioms, the cinema. Are you conscious of doing that? Or are you just setting out to make a good action-movie adventure?

    GEORGE LUCAS: With Star Wars I consciously set about to re-create myths and the classic mythological motifs. I wanted to use those motifs to deal with issues that exist today. The more research I did, the more I realized that the issues are the same ones that existed 3,000 years ago. That we haven't come very far emotionally.

    MOYERS: The mesmerizing figure in The Phantom Menace to me is Darth Maul. When I saw him, I thought of Lucifer in Paradise Lost or the devil in Dante's Inferno. He's the Evil Other--but with powerful human traits.

    LUCAS: Yes, I was trying to find somebody who could compete with Darth Vader, who is now one of the most famous evil characters. So we went back into representations of evil. Not only the Christian, but also Hindu and other religious icons, as well as the monsters in Greek mythology.

    MOYERS: What did you find in all these representations?

    LUCAS: A lot of evil characters have horns. [Laughs.]

    MOYERS: And does your use of red suggest the flames of hell?

    LUCAS: Yes. It's a motif that I've been using with the Emperor and the Emperor's minions. I mean, red is an aggressive color. Evil is aggressive.

    --Time Magazine interview, 1999.
     
  8. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    I mean, if you really think about it.... the idea that it's ok to slice people up with your laser sword is ok if you get in a fight, but choking them with the force is a no-no doesn't make much sense. I mean using a force push to knock them off a cliff would be fine right?

    However - it's IMO a very minor sin as far as SW goes and something I can overlook pretty easily. I did really like how they hinted that Luke was using some darker abilities.
     
  9. Anakin Generation

    Anakin Generation Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2019
    The Dark Side of The Force is just as loving as the Light. He was giving them liquid to soothe their thirst and pushing them back letting them know deep inside of their Souls that he had important business at the Palace. Do not underestimate the Power of The Dark Side of The Force, and The Revealed Scriptures tell us that the Only Power is Love. May The Force be with you.
     
  10. NeonMagi

    NeonMagi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Force choking an enemy is easier, faster and cooler than ignite the lightsaber and etc, also, considering the circumstances in ROTJ, Luke probably don't wanted to cause a commotion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  11. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2003
    I would point out as an in universe explanation that the guards had weapons and Bib didn't. We don't know if the mind trick works on the GG. Bib is also a high ranking member that Luke needs to escort him to Jabba. The guards are low level thugs.

    In reality, we know Lucas did it to show Luke's growth in power and his potential to fall to the darkside
     
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