ST Luke and Rey: their dynamic from TLJ and beyond

That is the part that gets me. It is not the fact that he does not want to train Rey. Yoda doesn't want to train Luke either. The Yoda POV short story from Certain Point of View actually makes me sad a bit given how anti training Luke he was.

 

So apparently, Luke is disconnected from the Force and has not sensed Han Solo's death or the destruction of the New Republic capital. Leia, who wasn't even trained in the ways of the Force, could sense these things but not Luke?

This would explain why Leia couldn't just simply use the Force to find her brother and TFA's ending has been reportedly slightly altered. If Luke doesn't know about these events through the Force, then how could he know who Rey is through the Force?

However, this makes me wonder how Rey was able to dream about the island he lives upon if he is that disconnected from the Force. Especially since Rey lives on a planet of desert, the polar opposite of an ocean. Her connection to Luke is all the more stranger.

 

It appears Rey's connection to the Force is giving her these dreams, not Luke. I think it may possible Rey dreamed of the island because she is supposed to find Luke (like Luke going to Dagobah to find Yoda and finding it familiar), it may be because the island is the site of the first Jedi temple. Or perhaps there is some other reason why we do not know yet.

 

I know the Force. But why her? And more importantly, how did she manage to reach to Luke when Luke is not even watching over her? Luke's familiarity with Dagobah despite not being there is rather vague but given that Yoda states he has been watching over him through the Force, it's possible that Luke was able to identify Yoda's Force Bond during those watching overs, hence why it felt familiar to him when he reaches to Dagobah.

But the fact that Luke shuts himself entirely out of the Force (and no one could find him) makes Rey's dreams a lot more stranger. She manages to find him in spite of that shutout. Dream of the place where he hopes to end all Force usage.

It just makes Rey's connection to Luke all the more mysterious. And yet somehow familiar.

 

I agree, it does. It almost seems like the Force has a will of its own. While I agree the reason could be Luke, I believe it could possibly be something else, perhaps tied to the reason Luke is on the island. Maybe something connected to another Force prophesy or the first Jedi temple?

I wonder how long Rey has been having dreams about the island since Luke has been there for 5-6 years. Did she recently start having these dreams or has she been having them for as long as she can remember?

 

What we know of Rey and Luke so far is very analogous to Luke and Yoda. Either RJ was seriously reaching when he said their dynamic isn’t a Yoda/Luke thing, or there is way more to their story than that children’s book would have us believe.

I choose to believe there’s a reason that Journey to TLJ Luke book exists. It’s just too similar in some of the stories. Luke ignoring her and refusing to teach her mirrors what the Tides people did to him way too closely to be meaningless. He’s testing her.

 

Yeah I deff need to get that book before I see the movie. Gotta finish Plasma first.

 

For me it was a force vision where she saw her future. Not related to her relationship with Luke.

Her finding Luke was the will of the force. Luke finding Dagobah familiar was as Yoda said "like you're being watched". Luke was sensing Yoda's but he didnt understand it at that point as he was still a novice with the force. All imo of course, but there was never anything added in the movies to suggest otherwise however i guess we all have our own interpretations.

 

The future? Or the present? If it was the future, she should have been dreaming something that has yet to come. Friends in pain and dying. Action not locations.

And the Will of the Force is such a contrived reasoning for why they connected. It can explain how, but not why. Why Rey of all people. We know why the Will of the Force made Qui-Gon Jinn meet Anakin. It was because Anakin is the Chosen One. We don't know why Rey is connected to Luke or why she is the only one to picture Luke's location. It's the Will of the Force that caused Rey and Luke to meet. But why?

 

But see the teacher in the Tides story wasn't testing Luke, she really didn't want to teach him. Plus she only held out for like a day. From that Rey's story kids book it seems like he was also being sincere in not wanting to train Rey and his mind has to be changed. I believe Luke's teacher's heavy handed foreshadowing quote was: I can only wish that someday you will also be pestered by a student as persistent to learn what you do not wish to teach.
That was a really good book.

I agree there are a lot of parallels w/ Luke and Yoda. But that seems to be general SW master/apprentice across the board. There was a comic w/ Darth Maul and he dreamed of Mustafar( I believe, but the answer is in the parentage thread and YOU CANT MAKE ME GO BACK THERE ) before he ever went there w/ his master. And of course Ezra( an orphan) was called by Kanan's saber. Ezra had a mini-Rey arc w/ kidnapping, being called by lightsabers and everything. He literally said after being kidnapped: They're not gonna come for me, people don't do that. He also escaped his confinements on a SD by the time they came to rescue him( I thought JJ created the character of Rey?). Rey actually has a lot of parallels with Ezra though I think they are not related.

I think Luke had a good teacher, but I don't know if he truly understood the lesson or if it is one of those things you forget slowly over time. She basically told him to not use the force, but let the force use him. I don't know if he was following the Force when he started the Jedi Order again, but he mos def can't follow the will of the force by cutting himself off from it like he has done now. Because the Force couldn't communicate w/ him it literally had to send him physical signs in the form of Rey.

I also think the Clodplodder story has a message that gets overlooked too. I think the whole point was to differentiate between legacy and reputation and how the beings in the GFFA feel about them doesn't matter just their actions. I don't think it matters if the 'Skywalker legacy' is saved and people in the gffa are grateful for what the Skywalkers have done. Their legacy is defined by them doing the right thing whether people know it or not. Leia's reputation might have taken a hit because Vader was her father, but her legacy is when instead of telling the whole story about how Vader killed her parents and made her watch and redeemed himself by saving her twin brother, Luke, the guy everyone loves, but instead finding another way to fight the coming evil. That's why I don't get 'they represent the good and bad of Anakin' like he isn't one w/ the force or the restoring/protecting the 'Skywalker Legacy' when it doesn't matter to any of the Skywalkers except the one that's . I think that was the writer's way of saying we( the audience) will always know what Luke and Leia( and Anakin, I guess... ) did for all the beings in the gffa. And even if most those beings never know, it doesn't matter because what makes them special is they didn't do all that stuff so people would call them awesome, they did it because it had to be done. That quote that Luke gives at the end about how only his actions matter is my favorite in the book and probably my favorite by Luke in all media( i've always been indifferent to him).

Shadao you asked why her? At this point, it seems like he is the only one that can help her and she is the only one that can help him and to me that's a good enough reason for the Force to push them together... and you know, the galaxy being destroyed. Also we don't know if anyone else dreamed of the that island, she's the only one that we know of so far. She also could have dreamed of that place before Luke was even there. But Darth Maul has done it so its not even a strictly lightside thing.

 

Why should she be dreaming that? No offence but it makes no sense. The Sabre calling to her is IMO clear evidence of the force imposing its will. she receives the call and when she touches it she sees things, the past and the future. Not sure where it is canon that future visions only relate friends in pain and dying.

Luke had those visions when he was being trained in the force and Vader enforced pain on his friends with the specific purpose of getting to Luke. Rey was called to a sabre, which in turn showed her "things" that are apparently relevant to her. We do not know yet the full extent of why but there was no one manipulating it, Like Vader was. Therefore for me it is clear it was the will of the force and it is not contrived at all imo, in fact it is an important part of her journey.

 

It tells of a destination, but not anything that has yet to come. An island with no actions makes it vague as to whether or not it was the present or future. Was dreaming of that place because that's where she's going to train? Or was she dreaming of that place because it is where Luke is? Difficult to tell if it's the present or future.

The Will of the Force can only explain how but not why. You cannot simply say that Anakin is special because the Will of the Force allowed Qui-Gon to find him. That's the worst reasoning possible. Instead it goes like this. Anakin is the Chosen One because of high count of midiclorians and it was that status that caused the Will of the Force to push Qui-Gon to the right direction. You only answered how. You haven't answered why.

Why not Leia, then? Why didn't the Will of the Force compels her to find Luke rather than Rey? Give Leia those dreams. Surely, a sister would have a better chance of convincing Luke to get off the island than some scavenger. Or any of Luke's friends. Why does it need Rey to begin with? And Rey is not some random scavenger. No, she's far too powerful and far too mysterious to be a random person.

There's always a reason why the Will of the Force deemed it so. Even Ezra, who was called to Kanan's Holocron, was revealed to have a reason for why he was chosen in the long run (I believe it has something to do with Ezra's connection to Lothal's wildlife).

 

Now that Luke will become a Force ghost, he will likely appear to Rey in Ep 9 for some morale boosting moment. However, their bond is not close to the one Luke shared with Obi-Wan or Yoda during his brief training.

 

Either a lot of fans totally misinterpreted his words, or he should've chosen better, but the "beating heart" thing did not elude to any kind of close relationship between Luke and Rey.

Their relationship started off tense, and that was never really resolved. They each got something from the other, but they parted not close, not particularly bonded, absolutely not affectionate.

It's a warning to us all to be careful about how we interpret the words from the cast and crew. Because Luke/Rey was absolutely not THE relationship in TLJ.

 

So are we going to talk about the fight between Rey and Luke?

Talk about shocking.

I feel like the implications of that haven't been well discussed on the board, as far as I can see.

 

"the beating heart"



If I were RJ I'd schedule an appointment at the cardiologist.

 

Once again, I think you're putting way more thought into this than RJ ever dreamed of

I've discussed that fight a ton in the Rey thread. Rey's characterization under RJ is pretty much defined in that fight for me. It was utterly nonsensical. It's also the primary reason I think once again, SW made Leia grieve a terrible loss with the wrong person - Rey - instead of the right person - Chewie.

 

Rey forced Luke to tell her the whole story. Luke probably could have kicked her *** had he wanted to. Rey can get very violently demanding. Rey's moral compass IS always pointing north (as DR said). Rey enforces what she believes is right upon others (and actually, so does Rose). I'm not sure what to make of it all yet.

 

Which is amazing to me.

Luke sees, more than possibly anyone, the dark potential in Rey. And it terrifies him.

 

I'm not entirely sure how to see Rey's dark potential myself. Rey always does what she believes is right (it is like she is incapable of doing otherwise), and therefore she believes everything she does is right (unless it turns out she was wrong - and she's the ultimate authority on that as her right/wrong judgments are the only ones she will listen to). I mean there is something dangerous about a person like this enforcing "what is right" on others. A person like this could lose sight of what's good in favor of what's "right" (to borrow AD's distinction between good and right).

She can become a very aggressive enforcer of "what is right," to the point of drawing the lightsaber on Luke... But there is also a sort of purity about her that keeps her from temptations. So I don't know if there is any real danger of her slipping to the dark side. And that is why I find her character confusing at this point.

 

Her character is more complex after TLJ. Which is why, for the first time, she's become one of my favorite characters.

Take a look at your post. Whose behavior, approach to life, mirrors Rey's?

And this is why I respect Luke's reaction to Rey so damn much. He knows what he's talking about. Snoke was a supreme fool for assuming that Rey was just a typical, normal Jedi-wannabe. Meanwhile Luke was alarmed at her dark potential, something that only gets reinforced when she becomes so quickly drawn to intimate conversations with Kylo Ren, despite everything he's done, and literally attacks Luke to get the answers she feels entitled to.

 

Frankly, she reminds me of Anakin in TCW the most. The difference is that she is not nearly so corrupted. Anakin was big on enforcing what he thought was right, but this is while he lives the lie of his forbidden relationship with Padme based on the hole inside him once filled by his mother. Rey also has a bit of a hole inside her from her parents abandoning her, but in TLJ she is able to overcome this damage rather than end up being defined by it. In a way Kylo's invitation was to choose to be defined by it (ironic when it comes with a message of "let the past die").

However, Rey is more compassionate than Anakin. Anakin wouldn't have given Kylo a chance, IMO.

 

Were there any dark side implications for Rey in her attack on Luke?

 

I was wondering the same thing. She escalated the sparring straight to one-sided saber use.