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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Luke Skywalker/Mark Hamill Discussion Thread [SEE WARNING ON PAGE 134]

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    I thought the Luke vs droids thing was peculiar. The scene with Vader and those rebels in RO came to my mind.

    Father and son are equally terrifying - specially Luke's metal hand crushing that droid. A bit like Luke in Jabba's palace, and less like his softer, intimate version. It's the way is presented visually, of course, and has nothing to do with Luke being like Vader.

    Maybe others won't see it like that in the future. That was certainly the case in the TLJ hut, 17 years after The Mandalorian - and 5-6 years after that show Luke decided to begin his temple. Balance was over.

    I was also remembered of Rey meeting Luke in TFA, just before he turns around: the imperial march chords are heard (there's something similar going on musically in TLJ, when a terrified Kylo sees Luke: 'I want every gun we have to fire on that man')

    In any case, The Mandalorian Luke is 100% compatible with TLJ Luke. The former is 100% more preferable than the latter for some I suppose.

    Mandalorian Luke is closer chronologically to the evasive Luke Skywalker in Ken Liu's novel, which is seen from different perspectives and becomes ambiguous at times, like his own legend.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  2. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    TLJ still should have been more Rey’s film than Luke’s, even if it was his last adventure and final in-the-flesh appearance - in fact, especially if it was his last adventure and final in-the-flesh appearance. Rey was the future of Star Wars, and Luke, even though he was still ambulatory and supposed to have a significant role in Episode VIII, heading into the past.

    TLJ has *more* reason for Luke to take a back seat than TM does. Yet TM is healthier for his appearance than the ST is with TLJ.

    And I get that it’s not necessarily your opinion you’re arguing, and that this is more of a Devil’s advocate situation here.

    But I’m trying to convey I don’t respect complaints about Luke in TM even if they’re stated in the way you’re suggesting they are; they’re too weak, too hypocritical, and ultimately too insecure. “Real” TLJ fans, as disingenuous as that phrase is, are secure enough to get why TM fits the story. I’m not saying these complainers are “fake” TLJ fans, but I am saying they’re clearly lacking in conviction, nervous about audience receptions, or have shallow reasons for their opinions their afraid to admit.

    Clearly, while most TLJ fans of Luke’s story are fine and have genuine reasons to like it that have some depth to it, there’s a few for whom it really is as simple as “sad = good, happy = bad.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  3. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I really don't see how a 4 minute segment of Luke doing heroic things would bother people, unless they are insecure about the positive reception it is generally getting. I doubt Luke is going to be the new star of the Mandalorean. They can't de-age him permanently.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  4. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I don't think its got anything to do with TLJ. if people have issues with Luke. its likely because the use of Legacy characters in general. where they feel its a large universe full of new characters and Luke appearing makes it feel small and always leading back to him. its got nothing to do with competing TLJ luke with this Luke. i think thats a false perception. and if it is down to competing Lukes for the sake of competing... then thats stupid.

    Really there is nothing to compare when it comes to Luke in The Mandalorian and Luke in TLJ. The Mandalorian is set 5 years after ROTJ. TLJ is set 30 years after ROTJ. you wouldn't expect him to be the same person 20 years on. let alone 30 years. 5 years after ROTJ you are gonna get a Luke thats close to ROTJ. 30 years on there is far less chance of that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  5. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    …I also don’t respect that opinion, though in a more general sense for all fiction, really. It’s the Star Wars franchise. And like all franchises, the big guns are going to show up, and people who whine about that ultimately don’t matter in the long run.

    I've heard that complaint from a lot of gripers in comic fandoms and TV show fandoms… and they never stop watching themselves, and you always see the franchise keep going.

    To me, it’s always just hot air usually very close to the same people who reflexively hate popular things.
     
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  6. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
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  7. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    [​IMG]

    :)
     
  8. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It’s a wound from countless DC Comics discussions that's tangentially related to this; the New 52 left some scars…
     
  9. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    @godisawesome

    Oh dear…

    Well, uh, I’m one of the few Certified Luke Stans not pleased with his Mando appearance. After having spent all s2 frustrated that the show seemed to be about everyone *but* Din Djarin I felt this appearance was the coup de grace. I’m not sure why the ep couldn’t have shaved some minutes off the hack-n-slash fest to develop - I dunno - the main character a touch more?

    Luke has always been my #1 fave but I’m not going to applaud his appearances no matter where or how executed.

    I’m happy for all my fellow stans who adored Luke’s appearance in the Mando s2 finale, though I still think folks. Would have been just as happy with slightly less lightsaber action.
     
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  10. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Din got his battle, not just with a robot, but also with the villain. I think if they didn't use those dangerous robots they'd set up, that we'd seen be difficult for Din take on 1 of, I think that could be seen by some as a bit deflating. I think Din got a much more personal moment either way. I actually feel opposite where it almost, to me, feels like it's weird that Luke isn't involved in the scene more and doesn't have more of a discourse with Din. Like exchanging more words. As is, it feels kinda weird that Din and Grogu are having this personal moment and Luke's just off to the side chillin', not saying a word and having no engagement in this scene between these characters.
     
  11. Darth_Foo

    Darth_Foo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2003
    TBH that Luke sequence is the reason I watched the Mando in the first place. Saw first two eps when they came out and thought it was 'meh', the ST did a great job of making me not care about SW anymore so ignored it. My wife, who is not a fan, was interested so we watched both seasons in about 3 days. Still think it's not as good as most people say and the Luke scene was the best part.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  12. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    The Mandalorian is excellent, easily the best Star Wars since RO, maybe ANH

    I like Luke in the ST, but I have no problem admitting that his appearance in the Mandalorian was exceptional, I loved it, even with the cgi de-aged face, lol

    And I don’t think it took away from Din Djarin at all, it’s still his show, part of why I like the show so much is it’s all about new characters, and I don’t think the appearance of Luke took away from that at all, though it was an awesome moment
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  13. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    I think if one didn’t care much about learning more about Din or developing his character or the episode stories revolving primarily around him, or if those things were just not high priorities as a viewer, one was more likely to love season 2.

    I’m not one of those people.

    As for Luke, I got far more out of LoLS than I did out of his Mando appearance. But, again, I acknowledge that I’m in the minority on this one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  14. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    I liked both seasons equally, I mean I don’t know which I would consider my favorite, I don’t always rank things after I watch them

    That doesn’t mean I don’t care about the central character, Din Djarin, I thought his character was developed over the two seasons, he’s the main character after all, his relationship with Grogu is the heart of the whole show, Luke showing up at the end of season two doesn’t change that
     
  15. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    I wanna read those discussions…
     
  16. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Thats funny I'm a pretty big Superman fan (mostly movies and games) and never even heard of the New 52. But I'm not really into comics. (Clearly)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  17. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    just like everything else, some are good some are bad
     
  18. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Short version: Dan Didio, DC’s former Editor In Chief, was well known to insist on certain status quo’s, changes to stories, or genre conventions that sabotaged some fo the genuinely good and successful writers he had (along with other issues.) He especially had a dislike for some “fun” characters, and a tendency to push angst, character deaths, and other variously “dark” ideas.

    For instance, the New 52 was a reboot to continuity that started promisingly in several areas… one where he wound up quickly declaring that no heroes could be married because it would make them “too happy”… which meant that the writers for the Aquaman book had to suddenly pretend they hadn’t been writing him and Mera as married… and that the Batwoman marriage to her girlfriend that they’d built up to for two years to be the first LGBT+ marriage in DC’s history got cancelled at the eleventh hour

    …Then when DC did the “Rebirth” event that was supposed to win back goodwill by bringing back characters he’d exiled from continuity, allowing marriages, and undoing some unpopular parts of the New 52, it took about a year before he took Tom King’s idea for a crossover event as an excuse to kill off more characters and turn a beloved character they’d just brought back into a mass murderer powered by angst.

    Listening to Didio speak about why he supports the types of stories he does, he tends to obstinately stick to his ideas about what people want and what stories are better even when there’s blatant evidence in front of him, and a firm belief in angst to an almost ridiculous extent (he insisted Lobo, a Deadpool-type parody, should become an angsty pretty boy.)

    Johnson’s Luke is better handled than some of the stories Didio interfered with…but he definitely has a similar “sad = better” perspective some TLJ fans share about Luke, one that often sees him ostensibly argue something different, but always in a hypocritical, clearly-in-denial way. He has a similar distaste for conventional superheroes, and a similar sensitivity to people who like them pointing out obvious mistakes he’s made, allowed, or enforced.
     
  19. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Thanks!!

    I suspect this Didio guy gets his last name deliberately mispronounced a lot…
     
  20. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  21. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Just like the Vader scene in RO. Why would fans ever want to see Vader being bad***?
     
  22. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
  23. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It all comes down to whether or not there is substance behind the “for the fans” scene. Vader and Luke both basically get a kind of “over the heads of our heroes” type of treatment in RO and TM, but both also still have their arrival built into the conflict of the story to emphasize its themes and elements.

    “Didiot” is in fact a common nickname for him. Oddly, he has a decent reputation as a writer for quirky books (not the big names, but the obscure characters).
     
  24. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Oh Boy... I misread that guy's name....badly
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  25. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Oh that wasn’t the misreading I was thinking of…