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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Luke Skywalker/Mark Hamill Discussion Thread [SEE WARNING ON PAGE 134]

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    I said Luke didn't really never experienced in full. In Full. So some stuff was not taught to him.

    I don't think you're reading my post tbh. I never mentioned attachments. I literally said the part that changed, that part that changed in Yoda as well, and how that might influence Luke to teach things differently.

    In TPM Yoda was telling Obi-wan to be mindful of the future. And QGJ refuted him. And then in the OT, Yoda is mirroring this because as we see in ROTS, he goes to learn under him in the years that follow. So if Yoda is relearning things, that means he's not teaching Luke exactly the same things he taught during the PT era.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
  2. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    He’s in no way trained in the exact same manner - Luke is a young adult much older than even Anakin when he's trained, and basically goes through Jedi boot camp focusing on the physical skills out of necessity, with Yoda having to intersperse the (arguably more important in the long run) spiritual lessons through it that a youngling would have learned before being given a weapon. Anakin was already a highly unorthodox case that the Jedi Council was leery on, and Luke’s so far past that it's really not comparable.

    And yes, they tried to give him some lessons on attachments… but because the OT was born out of and became a Romantic story about family attachments where those attachments save the day, Luke enters his Jedi training with family attachments that Obi-Wan and Yoda have allowe… and then saves the day because of his filial attachment to his father.

    Now, this is all because Lucas basically redefined and rebooted the Jedi for the Prequels.

    Before, in the OT, there was seemingly nothing unusual about Anakin having a son when Obi-Wan briefed Luke, and seemingly he nor Yoda had any issues with Luke and Leia being raised by conventional parents, and even Luke knowingly walking into a trap on Cloud City is presented more about being cautious and avoiding a trap rather than being too attached.

    The PT alone really introduced the idea of a cloistered, separated group of non-attached Jedi trained from birth… and either Lucas sometimes intended for that to be flawed, or couldn’t help himself even when he meant for it to be correct, but it wound up being presented as an organizational limitation and flaw that holds back the Jedi and that Luke, retroactively, ends up disproving with his appeal to his father.

    And much of that is because Star Wars's sense for drama is not inherently welcoming to Lucas’s idea of the PT Jedi, and thus, it always inevitably ends up being made an exception of at some point.
     
  3. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Yeah.

    Humans seem to be trained for about 20 years or so, taken from the age of 3-5, until mid 20s.

    Luke trains for 3 days or weeks. That means 20 some odd years are lost. Yoda boils it down to the most vital lessons and ditches the rest. We get how to use the Force, and how not to go to the dark side. That's it. Everything else...not important. Which I'm sure included a lot of unnecessary dogmatic tradition that really didn't mean anything.

    The PT Yoda rants about a 10 year old being too old, and pegs his future right then and there. Yoda is apprehensive about 19 year old Luke, because he's just like his father, but goes along with it. He tests Luke's determination and that's it. He's in the moment. And it's only when 'now matters are worse' that he even thinks about 'there is another'.

    OT Yoda learned some lessons. He knows the Jedi made mistakes. They had hubris and they definitely shouldn't have gotten involved in the war. So yeah, Luke has some different experiences in training than I believe old Jedi had. And it's up to Luke to figure out what comes next.
     
  4. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Why is Yoda “pegging his future” evidence he is wrong. Yoda accurately predicts Anakin’s future. Yoda is not ranting about Anakin being too old, he is totally calm. George Lucas said that Qui-Gon was making a mistake in training Anakin at an older age as Yoda is proven right
     
  5. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    I don't disagree much with that. Of course Luke did not receive a full Jedi training on screen. However, the chance of him receiving a whole lot more lessons in The Force between the movies is not just high, it is almost a certainty.
    Why would I not be reading your post? I read everything about it, including the notes about the cosmic and the living Force. Yoda told Anakin on screen that he shouldn't worry about a future that might never happen, and should focus on the present, to paraphrase. That's the same lesson he gave to Luke. I hardly think that minor disagreements between two Jedi Masters constitute an entirely different teaching, as implied by a series of messages by various posters. I don't even know what "PT teachings" mean to be honest. Luke's training of Grogu, Yoda and Kenobi's training of Luke, Yoda, Kenobi and QGJ's training of Anakin, are lessons that never contradict each other directly, and give the full picture of what it means to be a Jedi. Also, Yoda only learned one thing from QGJ, the path to immortality. He didn't suddenly relearn how to be a Jedi after 900 years.

    I don't know where this is coming from, but Jedi were trained in all the aspects of the Force simultaneously. We saw younglings learn how to spar with a training saber exactly in the same timeframe that they learned the spiritual aspect of the Force, time and again. The fact that Luke received accelerated lessons because of time constraints, does not mean these lessons were different.
    Sorry, but the exact opposite is true. Luke's attachment to his father is not what saved the day. Luke letting go of his attachments saved the day. He didn't stop attacking his father out of an unhealthy attachment towards him, but because he realized he would go on to become like him, if he killed him. He looks at his mechanical hand and realizes that he is close to falling to the dark side, and rejects the notion. It couldn't have been more obvious, after looking at his hand. The relationship with his father helped of course, and definitely caused Vader to feel compassion for his son and kill the Emperor, but Luke still did not give in to any unhealthy attachment, and stayed consistent with the PT Jedi teachings.

    Also, Obi-Wan and Yoda and the rest of the PT Jedi never said that all attachments are forbidden. In fact, they emphasized on the Jedi having compassion and love.
    Strongly disagree with that statement.
    That's your read of the Jedi. I do not see that anywhere as a general consensus about the totality of the Jedi. The argument that some Jedi had lost their way can definitely be made, such as Mace Windu for example, but the Jedi Order as a total being flawed? Nah, nothing in the movies supports that, unless we believe Palpatine's words about the Jedi. He and Anakin are the only two people claiming that the Jedi are flawed and/or traitors. Even Qui-Gon, who sometimes will go against the Jedi Council's orders, never even implied that the Order is flawed.
     
  6. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    and the Jedi Order might be flawed from certain points of view, but making a distinction between PT and OT Jedi is not something the films do
     
  7. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    How and when? Between ANH and ESB? Luke had not met Yoda then so was it just Force ghost Obi-Wan? And why do that for three years and then tell Luke to go to Yoda? Much simpler to have Luke go to Yoda right away.
    Between ESB and RotJ? Nope, Luke clearly had not spoken with either of them since his fight with Vader.
    After RotJ then? Yoda does not mention further lessons and said that Luke knew all that he needed to know.

    Compressing 20 years worth of study into a few weeks, maybe months, kind of requires the lessons be different. Luke was trained to take out Vader and Palpatine, that was the top priority for Yoda and Obi-Wan. They wanted him to pass on what he learned and that would be stuff prior to RotJ, so again a few month worth at most.

    Disagree, Luke still cared about his father, he still was attached to him. He just saw what he was becoming, that rage and hate would turn him into a slave to evil, like his father. And he rejected that hate, he would not let Palpatine turn his feelings for his friends and family turn him dark. He beat hate with love. He overcame his darker impulses because he saw what they would turn him into but he did not let go of the positive feelings he had for his friends and family.
    Even after Vader had tossed Palpatine down, Luke was still, "I've got to save you." He was still attached but he did do as Anakin wanted and removed the mask so father and son could have one final moment together. And he was sad, he grieved and he burned his father's body and said his final goodbyes.

    One poster of AotC said that Jedi must not know Love. Anakin says that attachment is forbidden and he almost certainly got that from Obi-Wan.
    Why did the Jedi at first reject Anakin? because he had an attachment to his mother and a strong one and that made him unsuitable as a Jedi.

    Well Yoda said;
    @Watcherwithin
    I think they do, Obi-Wan does not scold Luke for his insight and feelings about his friends but warn that thye could be used against him. The PT Jedi seem more about not allowing such feelings.
    Anakin was deemed too old at age nine, they waited with Luke about twice that much.
    If they saw that Anakin was too old, how is having Luke even older better?
    Unless they thought that Luke and Leia should grow up with families and then they be trained.
    Which is pretty much what they say, that Luke and Leia be split up, be with families, and they wait until the time is right. They could have taken Luke and Leia and trained them from birth or very young ages, like the PT Jedi normally did. But they choose not to.
    Maybe they thought that their approach needed to change.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
     
  8. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Luke wasn't trained to take out Vader and Palpatine. He was trained to resist the dark side. That's really all they focused on (along with belief in the force, force levitation, and don't trust visions of the future because they're unreliable). But the most important part is resisting the dark side, And this is the part basically what makes a Jedi, a Jedi. And that's what Yoda is talking about when he says once you face Vader only then will you be a Jedi. It's only when you resist the dark side and remain a Jedi, that you are a Jedi. It's the final test. And that's the part where Palpatine fails. Sure, Luke could have go on to kill them later on, but if he couldn't even resist the dark side, then it's all for nothing.

    And Yoda and Obi-wan could have been training Luke since birth. Obi-wan could have been doing so on Tatooine in his cave, or Yoda on Dagobah. But they didn't.

    Why? Because both of them needed retraining from QGJ. They need to relearn things. And so Yoda, who in the PT is adamant that 10 years old is too old to begin the training, and only went along with accepting Anakin because the rest of the council approved it, and just saw the results of that very decision play out on a galactic scale ... was still totally okay with not training Luke at 3-4 years old.

    That's the starting point of PT Jedi training. And they've abandoned it. That's the dogmatic part being swept away, in favor of just going with the force.
    Yoda teaches the absolute basics, and boils it all down to the most important part. Everything else doesn't matter.
     
  9. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    The reason they didn’t train Luke & Leia right away is because they were wanted and had to live in exile where they couldn’t properly raise a kid, that’s the only reason that’s officially been given. They may also have not wanted their using the Force to give them away. All of your post is speculation, that would not be clear to someone watching the movies for the first time
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  10. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    No. Yoda and Ben went into exile, and had to relearn things from QGJ. The movies tell us this very explicitly (not to mention the new Kenobi series is also about this, but we;ll stick with just the saga). You're now arguing from a POV where the PT doesn't exist, in order to say that the OT teachings are indifferent from the PT lol. Nice try.

    Luke's education is fundamentally different than what PT Jedi learned, based on the fact that Luke has a week-long crash course of the Force and of the Jedi, that include the most important elements that Yoda decides is needed after spending time in exile. Yoda doesn't have time to teach Luke pointless stuff. If Yoda wanted to, he could have taught Luke from an early age, and included all the same PT Jedi learnings. He did not. For whatever his reasons, he chose not to. Yoda then tells Luke to pass on what HE learns. Not pass on what he doesn't learn. Not pass on all the PT Jedi stuff he didn't have time to teach him.

    The speculation is yours.
     
  11. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    I don't agree. I think suggested by AOTC, when Anakin expresses his feelings about Padme, Obi-Wan doesn't shut his feelings down, but advises him about them, the jedi don't not allow such feelings, but advises in control of them. Even in TCW, there's this moment:
    [​IMG]
    Among this, there's also Obi-Wan telling Anakin he loved him in ROTS.
     
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  12. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    I more or less agree with most of what you said but I would argue that Luke was trained to get rid of Vader and Palpatine.
    In ESB;
    This sounds to me that they are training Luke for a task, to stop/conquer/kill the Sith.

    TCW does not matter to me, only the films.

    And in the PT films we have a number of examples were emotions are seen as bad by the Jedi and there are things Jedi are not allowed to do.
    Jedi-to-be are separated from their birth parents at a very young age, 1-3 years old it seems. Presumably before any attachments have been formed.
    Are the Jedi allowed any contact with their parents? The films don't clearly say but given how much Anakin missed his mother and for ten years he had not seen her. Then I think further contact is not allowed.
    Marriage is not allowed for Jedi, same with having a family. If a female Jedi gets pregnant then they would either have to give away the child or quit being a Jedi.
    Yoda tells Anakin not to mourn or miss someone.
    Padme said that love was forbidden for a Jedi, an AotC poster said "A Jedi must not know love."

    Also in AotC, Obi-Wan says;
    This implies that Anakin pursuing Padme in a romantic way conflicts with him being a Jedi.
    Plus, compare with this;
    In the former, Obi-Wan says that his thoughts betray him, rather negative sounding.
    In the latter he says that his feelings does Luke credit, more positive.
    In the former, Obi-Wan warns Anakin that this conflicts with him being a Jedi and that Padme can not be trusted. Again a bit negative. In the latter, Obi-Wan only warns how the emperor might use them against Luke.

    In closing, I think the PT Jedi are painted as more restrictive about emotions, things not being allowed and all that. I found less of the in the OT.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
     
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  13. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Nah, they just went into hiding and could not train Luke and Leia yet because it was too dangerous in the early days of the Empire.

    Nothing to do with any abandonment of the old ways, this is not mentioned anywhere, and to me it doesn't make sense either.

    I don't understand that argument about QGJ. The only thing that Kenobi and Yoda learned from QGJ was how to become Force Ghosts. Nothing else.
     
  14. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    I was speaking on the collective current canon structure of the jedi. However you contradict yourself on even that. The poster isn't the film, but you cite that as a point of reference. That has even less canonicity than the TCW show does.
    Never, not once, not ever, are the jedi said to view emotions as bad in the PT movies.
    Attachments don't have to be the same as emotions.
    Yoda says that, but never tells him those emotions are bad. He warns him about the consequences of such emotions. He never tells him he's bad for having them or that they're bad.
    Padme makes an assumption. Anakin says that attachment and possession is forbidden. You may think, like I do, that Anakin throwing around the unconditional love thing being the same as compassion is him making up his own thing. But that doesn't mean Padme is right about her claim. On the contrary, most of the main PT movie jedi are shown to care: Obi-Wan for Qui-Gon, Qui-Gon for Obi-Wan and Anakin, Yoda about Padme not dying in AOTC, Obi-Wan about Anakin, Yoda and Obi-Wan about the younglings and their people.
    And neither of those situations have Obi-Wan tell Anakin not to feel that way. He cautions Anakin on the path his emotions could lead him, but never condemns that he has emotions. Even earlier, Obi-Wan expresses no condemnation on Anakin's nervousness about meeting Padme, and even offers comforting words about Anakin's pessimism in Padme's reaction to seeing him again.

    I think pursuit of Padme isn't the same as having emotions. I think it's acting on emotions and not practicing control.

    I think the PT movie jedi may be less personal, less outward about their emotions in cases, but considering emotions bad are never developed and are shown and said to not be the case.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2022
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  15. Def Trooper

    Def Trooper Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Even then, like others have said, Obi-Wan straight-up tells Anakin he loved him as a brother right there in the film, and he was clearly attached to Qui-Gon as a father figure and was distraught when he died. Yoda is kind and playful with the children he teaches in AOTC, and he's also friends with Tarrful and Chewbacca.

    There is nothing to suggest that the Jedi are unfeeling robots that shun all emotion, but as @dagenspear said, it's all about controlling them and not letting your emotional bonds consume you. Jedi are willing to let things go and move forward, they're willing to sacrifice their own happiness if that means the galaxy as a whole will be spared from suffering. These were the things Anakin was incapable of doing, and it's as simple as that. Not only did the PT Jedi do this, but Luke was able to do it in ROTJ despite being raised with attachments, because he understood the importance of mastering his emotions.

    I don't think the Jedi came up with the no attachments rule out of spite to oppress their members, but purely a precaution against the dark side.
     
  16. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    @Def Trooper

    No contradiction as the poster, trailer are part of getting the audience interested in the film.
    And here we have a poster that says a Jedi must not know love, we have a teaser trailer called "Forbidden Love", we have a character in the film asking if Jedi are allowed to love and she thought that was forbidden. And lastly, a major part of the romance plot in AotC is how Padme and Anakin can not be together. Anakin talks about keeping it secret and so on.
    So sorry but I can not see how AotC is NOT saying that love is not allowed for a Jedi.

    If Lucas did not intend for that to be the message, that Anakin and Padme could love each other, no problem, then I don't think he did a very good job of it.

    Also, if someone has no emotions, can they be attached? Attachment is presented as a bad thing because of the emotions involved. Fear, greed, anger, hate and so on.

    Yoda is flat out telling Anakin not to mourn or miss someone. How is that not saying that those emotions are bad and Anakin should not have them?

    From memory I think Obi-Wan said that pride and envy are not Jedi thoughts.
    So we can add that to fear, greed, anger, hate that are emotions a Jedi must not have.

    I think they are, why else do the Jedi have such strict rules?
    A person that has lived with their birth parents for more than say five years, can not be a Jedi. So a few years of normal contact with parents and bonding with said parents makes someone unsuitable to be a Jedi. Marriage is not allowed, having a family is not allowed.

    I also think that the PT Jedi are not always consistent about how they view emotions. In TPM they have a funeral for Qui-Gon and that seemed a somber affair. I saw no "rejoicing" there.
    And yet Yoda tells Anakin not to miss or mourn someone.
    I think that the Jedi being strict about emotions are part of the reason why Anakin turns so when that is needed, the Jedi comes across as cold and distant. Other times they can be kind and warm.

    Lastly, about Obi-Wan and him loving Anakin.
    That was presented as a bit of an issue as he didn't want to kill Anakin and begged Yoda not to. So it interfered a little with his duty to kill the Sith.
    Also, what did Obi-Wan do? He dismembered Anakin and left him to burn to death. A horrible way to die.
    I certainly did not see love there. Hate would be more apt. It sure seemed that Obi-Wan wanted Anakin to suffer greatly before he died. If Obi-Wan did care for Anakin then he should have ended his suffering.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
     
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  17. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    AOTC is focused on how the Jedi don't allow romantic relationships, aka love of that nature.
    A Jedi's life is all based on love and compassion. It is what drives them. There is no inconsistency.
    There are many forms of love, and one of those was prohibited by the Jedi. It is as simple as that.
     
  18. Def Trooper

    Def Trooper Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2019
    And really this makes a ton of sense. People love to demonize the Jedi for this, but romance is one of the like top 3 things that can make somebody go off, and it can very easily become possessive.

    I'd like to think that Luke would come up with a solution to romance without outright banning it, but I don't think the old Jedi were 100% wrong to be cautious about it. Too often these arguments go "I think romance and Jedi families are cool, therefore it's automatically better to just allow that across the board and the PT Jedi were evil for banning it", like, nobody even tries to think of reasons why they'd implement the rule in the first place it seems.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
  19. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 9, 2015
    But they aren't canon or the actual movie itself.
     
  20. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

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    Nov 21, 2012
    I think some people also confuse their own morals, with the morals of dogmatic space wizards.

    We're dealing with powerful magicians. Using the force is based on emotional-connection. Reaching out. Maybe that means...altruism in a sense. Empathizing beyond yourself. Feeling for others well-being. Compassion, or feeling what others are feeling.

    So clearly being emotional is okay. Feeling emotions is okay. What's not okay, is being a servant of your emotions, or letting those emotions dictate your actions. That's where things go bad. And so the Jedi don't ban emotions, they ban things that might lead to emotions getting the better of them, and allowing them to lead to the dark side.

    Love is okay. Romantic love seems to be the cut off because it can lead to possessiveness and putting those you love, above the rest of the galaxy. Above even the force. And this is what happens to Anakin. And this is what Luke ultimately gives up in the last scenes of ROTJ. He walks away from those emotions controlling him, making him powerful, but controlling him nonetheless. Making him slave to the dark side, just like his father thought he was.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  21. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Luke has gained emotional intelligence. It’s his superpower; of course he apparently loses it 30 years later and he is inexplicably a basket case. No offense to baskets.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It's complicated beyond simple preferences by the dramatic nature of both the story and how such dogma often impacted real world societies, though, and I think that’s part of the reason why Luke seems like he *should*, even if just on a drama level, have been used to analyze the no-attachments rule from a critical angle. The attempt to uphold it as orthodoxy that out-of-universe creator seeks to enforce just creates a constantly broken stasis that becomes tired quickly.

    Anakin’s romantic attachment to Padme becomes dangerously possessive, and his non-romantic familial attachment to his mother caused an earlier problem… but given the Romanticism inherent in Star Wars, his attachments were also his saving grace that pulled him back from the dark side, and even in the middle of his “fallen hero” story, his attachment to Obi-Wan (and at times Padme) were also his more heroic qualities. Likewise, because the story is defined by Romanticism as one of its dramatic pillars, Luke’s attachment to his friends may be a conflict between the Intellectual answer of “Don’t go to Bespin!” and the Romantic righteousness of “Don’t abandon your friends!”… but let’s be honest here, the audience wouldn’t respect a Luke who did it go for his friends by the very nature of the story’s values, and that’s partially why his attachments to them are later justified in ROTJ. And then you’ve got other, ancillary stuff, like how Obi-Wan isn’t even close to being triggered to the dark side by Satine’s death… but clearly has issues with Qui-Gon’s.

    It’s the problem of trying to make “The Jedi don’t trust their Knights with the duty of being emotionally mature in this *one specific area*” without even allowing for critical discussion.

    I’m all for caution and wariness of personal relationship of a romantic nature, provided it doesn’t become dogmatic…

    …And if it *does* become a dogmatic approach from creators out-of-universe, than we should be mining the institutional vulnerabilities and potential for corruption there for drama instead.

    Show what happens when loyalty to an institution, a loyalty encouraged by proscribed personal sacrifice, results in institutional abuses of power and authority. Show us some true deadbeat dad Jedi who has connections in the Order to avoid being punished for his irresponsibility. Show us Jedi so dogmatic they can be manipulated into being weapons of a corrupt master. Have an objectively emotionally mature Jedi who’s capable of being a husband/wife and parent as well be thrown out by the Order at an in opportune time.

    I mean, even in the ST, it would add some serious resonance and lore if Luke had *either* tried reforming the Jedi and struggled with that, or if him making an exception to the dogma for his nephew and being too soft on him backfired when the spoiled brat when crazy.

    I just despise creators trying to treat the dogma as fact; even when it introduced, it was done for the sake of immediate drama, and George had no problem making exceptions for his story (Ventress and Vos) when he felt like it.

    We shouldn’t have creators treating the story element as sacrosanct… up until they have a heroic Jedi or live interest lined up for a death and can quickly sneak a consultation of monogamous romance in before they die.
     
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  23. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Can we please stop saying that Anakin's attachment brought him back into the light? It wasn't his attachment. It was his empathy and love for his son. I think George Lucas made it very clear in the PT what he meant by attachments, and that wasn't it.
     
  24. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Having familial love for someone, is an attachment.

    That's why Jedi insist on candidates for training - Force-Sensitives - being removed from their families at a very young age - to ensure they don't develop any familial love.

    The only way it could not be an attachment, would be if Vader loved everyone, not just his son, equally - and it was "love of everyone" that brought him back. IMO ROTJ is pretty clear that this was not the case, that the love was familial rather than universal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  25. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 20, 2018
    I disagree. I love my parents but moved to a different country for a better future 13 years ago. If I was attached to them, I wouldn't have progressed in life. You can love someone and not be attached to them or to the relationship.

    Familial love is the same kind of love between Jedi themselves. Obi-Wan and Anakin were like brothers. Same thing with Ahsoka. Romantic love is forbidden because it's almost required to have an attachment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022