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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Luke Skywalker/Mark Hamill Discussion Thread [SEE WARNING ON PAGE 134]

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    I think it's personal and situational. It comes down to this: Can you overlook aspects of a film that you maybe don't like, doesn't resonate, or doesn't make sense to embrace what's good in said film.

    For example: As was pointed out earlier, A LOT of people and fans do not like the movie Rocky V. It is generally regarded as the worst of the series. Yet, when I reanalyze the film I think that, in many ways, it is a better Rocky film than Rocky IV. I know it seems blasphemous and crazy to say, but (at its core) Rocky V is more closely rooted with the earlier Rocky movies and is not the WWE/MTV montage that Rocky IV is. I mean, Rocky IV has several scene that unironically feature a talking 80's robot....and I'm not talking about Dolph Lundgren.

    Also, for me, my initial response/reaction to a movie is not always how I regard a movie. It took me a few viewings of Wes Andersons's Rushmore to appreciate the humor.

    All of that said, Star Wars definitely has the ability to be viewed with a "just lean back and enjoy..." mentality. I am sure a large amount of casual viewers go in to these movies this way. My dad is like that.

    He likes Star Wars. He is not hyper critical, nor overly analytical when he watches these movies. He experiences the movies in the moment and then moves on. For him, it's not that Star Wars isn't "serious cinema", it's just that he watches these movies as they (maybe) were intended all along....as escapist cinema aimed at the young and the young at heart.

    As I said way back, were are getting philosophical now. Thanks for the chat.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  2. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Them being twins and them not being of the same age is not a big mistery. Darkness rises and light to meet it. Ben was sent to Luke when he was 11. Rey was born that year.

    There's a parallel between 'death an decay which brings new life' (Rey's first lesson) and this process. Plant the seed of decay (the seed of Kylo Ren in Ben, let's say) and new life will emerge.
    Snoke called Skywalker 'the seed of the jedi order', and later: 'Skywalker I asume, wrongly'. But he was not wrong; it was Rey Skywalker, and not Luke.
    So if Rey was Skywalker before adopting the name and from the seed level up, well...Plagueis other power, 'influence the midichlorians to create life', sounds very like 'a dyad in the force, a power like life itself'.

    But Plagueis was killed.

    'Is it possible to learn that power?'

    Lucas: JJ, what happened to Vader's grandchildren?

    Back to Luke.
     
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  3. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Good Rocky analysis. For me Rocky Balboa did a much better job at doing what Rocky 5 was trying to do.
     
  4. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Again that depends on how I liked the movie overall. If the parts I didn`t like were important for my viewing experience or not etc. But it`s never a conscious choice to "overlook" it, it is always a gut feeling for me. Maybe I hated the first half but the second one was amazing, that can happen. If I hate 95 % of a movie, then nope, probably not gonna find it worthwhile overall. I work on gut level enjoyment, the less invested I am, the less I`m gonna get out of a movie anyway. So true "lean back and enjoy" movies are the kind of ones where halfway through I start doing something else and just glimpse at the screen occasionally.

    Of course they will do whatever they think will give them the most amount of money. What they need is a good instinct for what that is - which can be tricky. I mean if they thought TLJ was gonna go over swimmingly and JJ "oops, trying to please everyone here on diametrically opposed sides (good luck with that" was the cure, I don`t know what to tell them.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  5. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Interesting... and all this time.....since TLJ,... ALL of the supporters of that film kept telling me when I mentioned how similar the force Skyping was to Luke’s projection, that I was totally wrong; that Luke’s projection was SO different and SO much more powerful and impressive than the Force chats between Kylo and Rey.

    Finally, the truth comes out. Thanks for being honest that the force Skyping between kylo and Rey was meant to be more powerful a display than Luke’s 5 minute light show. Sadly, I agree. Luke wasn’t shown to be powerful at all in TLJ. He never accomplished anything or showed that he was indeed an amazing Jedi, having inherited his father’s mighty skywalker force gifts, as George Lucas told us he had. We, as an audience, unfortunately, never got to see them. We got wimpy , loser, failed Luke instead.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  6. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    You're preaching to the choir here.

    @ChildOfWinds - same with you, you're lumping me in with people who have nothing to do with me.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  7. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    'Kylo's turn' happens in TROS. Ben's turn happened after the hut.
    Calling him Kylo before he did was Luke's mistake. 'You failed him by thinking his choice was made'

    Films sometimes read the audience in a funny way.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  8. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Or it's honestly just a shorthand way of saying "I don't care if you are called Kylo or Ben or Easter bunny, you annoy me as a character in every way".

    The more attempts the movies or that comic make to present him as some cuddly conflicted, hard-done by little puppy, that I should feel sorry for, the more annoying I find him.
     
  9. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    The more you look like him. He find himself annoying too.
     
  10. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    I don`t think he finds himself annoying as much as he whines about his lot in life. So nope, I don`t appreciate any "you are just like him then" comparism. He is just a fictional character that annoys me. Not even him so much as the kid-gloves writing for him. Noone HAS to like him or find him interesting to watch.
     
  11. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Yes, but no one has to not like him or find him interesting to watch. Your choice.

    Just like my parallel between you -or your post- and him. You dont HAVE to 'appreciate' it. I did, and do, appreciate it. My choice.

    Anyway, back to Luke. Ben/Kylo was not conceived in order to be a 'sympathetic' villain, like Jabba let's say, who is cartoonish and funny, or Palpatine even.

    But that's a part of it. Without that almost invisible quantity, 'Ben', his turn would make no sense. Jabba and/or Palpatine being redeemed based on what's on the screen would be weird.
    That's why Luke and Han try to help him (I think he tried to mindbridge Leia and Ben at the end -those dice-but Leia changed his plan) and Leia says there's still light in him and so on. That door is closed to them, but there's a door. Rey is thrown into that situation and so is the audience with her.

    Kylo's not whining when he's angry, by the way, he's annoyed up to 11. That's him vs Luke during the duel, for example. Whining is not a path to the dark side.
     
  12. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Without a doubt. I also loved that the Creed movies had Rocky find redemption as a mentor/coach as well. Those movies were also a better version of what Rocky V was going for.

    Well, this is more of an un-engaging or ignoring it, is it not?

    Certainly, if you are occasionally looking at the screen and really just using it as background noise/picture....you won't get as much out of any movie. Is this how you watched the TLJ?
     
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  13. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    That was the point I`m making earlier, no, it is not a choice for him if I find him interesting or not. If I watch something and NOT find it interesting, I can`t push a "reverse" button for that.

    Then I kindly ask you not to compare me, a real person, to a horrible murderer of a fictional character. No matter how much you appreciate the insult.

    No, I didn`t. I unfortunately watched it in the cinema. Twice even because I couldn`t just accept how much I hated it at first and tried to make myself get into it for a second time. I denied that it didn`t work for me that much and the second time was even worse.

    I was trying to explain how much enjoyment of movies works. The more they get me emotionally invested in a positive way (which, don`t get me wrong, that can be sad content that is effective and beautiful), the more I enjoy them. The "downside" of that is, if you will, that I don`t watch them in a "just lean back" way. Ever. If I do the latter, then the movie is not doing much for me in the first place. And if something is really boring me, then yes, I might start doing something else.
     
  14. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Now you are Ben in the hut. No real person likes to wake up and be compared with a fictional murderer.

    You're welcome. Anyway, back to Luke.
     
  15. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    No thanks. I don't fancy proving how weak and vile I am by running off to join the nearest murderous totalitarian regime.

    You're welcome.
     
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  16. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    I'm happy to be him. Do I get to wear the helmet?
     
  17. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Hood up or down?
     
  18. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Would depend on the weather
     
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  19. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I feel exactly the same about TROS Rey.
    But...we are being told we MUST like Rey.
     
  20. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Not by me. ;)
     
  21. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue with that response??? That Lawrence Kasdan is solely responsible for the Star Wars sequels, and should take the blame, or that Lawrence Kasdan is incapable of poor writing/story telling?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  22. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    :) I think Lawrence Kasdan is great. I was being sarcastic.
     
  23. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    No, by the film makers.=P~
     
  24. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Oh no not back to Luke yet. We have a strict rule here to discuss the post not the poster and comparing a user here to a villain because you disagree with their point of view is crossing the line. Knock it off. This will be your one and only warning about this.
     
  25. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Oh I see. I thought you were suggesting that Kasdan could do no wrong and that his writing on TFA was beyond reproach... My bad...