Lumiya - What were her true plans. Did she succeed or fail?

I saw the subject line and got super excited for a moment because I thought it would be about Lumiya's story in the old Marvel comics... then realized it was actually about the Legacy of the Force series, which I never read. Oh, well. I often wish the old Marvel series had continued as planned - I feel like Jo Duffy was just starting to take the Nagai, Lumiya, Rebellion, etc. all in a mostly* interesting direction before the cancellation.

* Tofs notwithstanding

 

You guys stumbled on a plothole concerning the legacy era.
Krayt claimed, in the legacy comic, that Caedus acted a ligntning rod that distracted the jedi's attention away from the one sith.
Yet at the end of the fate of the jedi series of novels, Luke Skywalker is alerted to the existence of new sith order and darth krayt as a result of the actions darth caedus took while attempting to change the future.

 

Denning actually answered this in an interview - he wrote LOTF and FOTJ with the assumption that the Legacy comic was just one "possible future" the Galaxy might have. If the reboot hadn't happened, it would've been interesting to see if we'd have gotten any others.

 

He said that, but that wouldn't have been allowed to happen. (I also doubt he seriously believed that himself)

Also, he sure loved to mine the Legacy comics.



On-topic, I still stand by my 2008 post:

 

Maybe I'm weird but I wouldn't find it especially odd. Big shared universes love "possible future" stories. And like I said, I'd have been interested in seeing what the other "paths" were, no disrespect meant to Legacy at all.

 

It would have broken the old canon. And totally negated the whole purpose of Legacy.

People bought Legacy comics because they were the future. And they were much more successful than Denning's books in the eyes of fans and critics (if not sales).

It would be pretty bad for Denning to basically mine Legacy for all it's worth to make his stuff seem deeper and more important, and then disregard it.


They could have done a long and windy path to Legacy. The destination was known, but could be many surprised on how we got there. Plus we still didn't know the fates of Luke, Ben, Han, Leia, Allana and her family line, the entire generation of Fel II and potentially the generation between Ben and Kol/Nat, etc. How the GA became a Triumvirate. How the Jedi moved back to a focus on the living Force, based on Ossus. How Jag officially became Emperor, and founding of the Imperial Knights, the Imperial Missionaries, and the Victory Without War initiatives. The mysteries in the Unknown Regions. More stories on the redemptive journey of the Yuuzhan Vong. Etc.

 

To answer the OP's question.

To bring forth a new kind of Sith and to see that Sith order prevail. To triumph over the Jedi, and to bring Jacen to the dark side, and to see him succeed.

She succeeds in everything but the last part. I re-read Sacrifice a few weeks ago, and we get a few Lumiya POVs-there is no indication she is primarily motivated by revenge(she denies this again and again and doesn't really seem set on hurting Luke as much as the fans claim).

Lumiya's crowning achievement is Jacen's ascension to Sith mastery, she only fails in her overall plan because he failed. Beyond that her goals were successful.

Lumiya after Jacen kills Mara has won, all that matters is buying Jacen time and settling the score with Luke.

She is arguably the most successful Sith lord-in terms of the spirit of her goals if not the details.

 

I apologize in advance for my English. I wanted to speak out.

I don't like that all of Lumiya's activities are usually reduced to the murder of Mara. Also, I don't see any evidence that her life is about getting revenge on Luke. Or the idealistic aspirations of the Sith. Or to the service of the Empire. (This is a joke, I actually don't like her being portrayed as a jealous stalker of Mara... the rest I just disagree with)
I would say: it is difficult to judge her aspiration, because the likely logical chains, at least in my eyes, are broken one after another.

Chain 1: Devotion to the ideals of the Sith
Lumiya killed the Prophets of the dark side. Collaborated with Carnor Jax to the point of sabotaging Palpatine's clone production, then escaped early, leaving Carnor to die. It's easy to assume that these darksiders simply didn't fit her ideals, but Jacen Solo... was also abandoned by her. She appeared as a Force ghost to Jaden Korr, but she did not use this ability for Jacen's sake. Do not forget that even at the beginning she admitted: Everything I say is a lie.

Chain 2: Loyalty to the Empire (or lust for power)
It is quite clear that Lumiya had no territorial or property ambitions. She betrayed the patronage of Isard, who was extremely condescending and humane towards her, and limited herself to an "alliance" with the group that overthrew Emperor Palpatine - the same Palpatine, whose devotion was cultivated in her as part of a special program, and to whom she spoke disrespectfully. Moreover - going into stories from her youth, you can see that she was initially not inclined to trust teachers on Carida. Also, her reaction to the self-murder of cadets is laughter; moreover, except for Myrett Davani, no one was surprised at such an outcome, and there was a hint that such situations at the academy were repeated. Myrett herself was protected by Shira - both from the deception of teachers, and, apparently, from the bitter truth. And then Shira began to protect Luke - she threatened to beat him for his willingness to sacrifice his life, while at the same time putting herself at risk, saving him, she was not afraid for her life, did not harm him, having an excellent opportunity to do so. I think her loyalty to the Empire was shattered to some extent in her youth. And even in the process of training, she was prone to anger (as in a group of guys who wanted to threaten her and her friend with a drink) and unscrupulous manipulativeness.

Chain 3: Blood Vengeance for Luke Skywalker
And again I will start from afar. Lumiya was definitely not a cowardly person - she offered Luke to kill her, personally arranged the genocide of the prophets, devoted years of her life to intrigues against a powerful enemy, having only allies at her disposal who were ready to end her life. At the same time, she also found time to punish her former student, Flint, with whom she had almost nothing to do, but who had the imprudence to betray her one day. Instead of wasting her life slaughtering Palpatine and his minions, she could ally herself with Luke's many enemies, and I think her role in the same Thrawn campaign could be a game-changer if she were willing to be a part of it. She did not do this for 36 years of her life. In addition, even when Flint was her student, she first of all entrusted the death of Luke to him, and only as a result of his betrayal did she go on about the desire to personally inflict torment on Luke.

What do I think about her motivation?
I find her dialogue (and more) interesting in Legacy of the Force. She makes it clear that she has been tracking his life, even posting a reproduction of Leia's painting in her apartment (Lumiya's apartment). During personal meetings with Luke, she says that she has died a long time ago, that she wants to hold his hands, like in the good old days (and she held his hands at every opportunity), that, in the end, oaths are the only what is left at the end. A little peculiar for a man who managed to betray everyone? She did not spare the one for whom devotion was cultivated in her; she also dealt with a student who was practically no one to her, but at the same time had the imprudence to betray her, and no matter how many years ago this happened. Luke himself once abandoned her, but when she directly gave him her life, he chose to keep it, and even tried to be gentle with her, protecting her from the aggression of Kiro, a student. I think that's why she gave up trying to kill him. Instead, she tested his vow to "never kill Shira Brie" over and over again. Needless to say, he never made it to the end. He wanted to take her with him, wounded, after the battle, but was stopped by Mara. He let Mara hunt her after holding her hands (and Mara ended up dying on Kavan, given that the dubious story of Shira's "revealing true loyalty" is linked to Kavaan's Circle). I think that's why she gave up trying to kill him. Instead, she tested his vow to "never kill Shira Brie" over and over again. Needless to say, he never made it to the end. He wanted to take her with him, wounded, after the battle, but was stopped by Mara. He let Mara hunt her after holding her hands. I think it was for him that all her trials and all his lies were intended, because, apparently, Shira Brie experienced the collapse of her faith and did not trust anyone anymore. She sincerely cried over the children whom she condemned to death, but considered it wrong to abandon the cannibalistic practice called "the end justifies the means", because she did not believe that these children could not be saved. I think her personal drama is lack of faith. She did not believe in her life, in her strength, in the people who were with her (and for those who once betrayed her, she cherished her hatred for years). Her weapons were lies and manipulation. Even her body became a "mock of life", since there was no longer "her real" (and, in her words, she left her scars not out of a desire to put pressure on guilt, but so that Luke could see who he was fighting with). If you judge her actions in terms of dealing with her personal pain, she lost. From the point of view of turning anger into revenge, she won, but lost much more. Luke wasn't as prone to apathy when she was around him, and she should have trusted herself, as in the cases of affection for him and with a little girl she did not want to sacrifice - after all, she successfully resisted the enemies much stronger than her own doubts.

 

For some reason it is not possible to correct errors in the comment itself. So here are some fixes.

1) Lumiya did not speak disrespectfully to Palpatine. She spoke negatively of Palpatine's personality in a conversation with Jacen. Although she was raised as a patriot and fan of Palpatine.
2) There were no suicide cadets. They were killed by a laughing Shira.
3) And I apologize for the repetition in the last paragraph.
4) She did not believe that children could be saved.

 

I'm so fascinated by the implication in Evil Never Dies that Lumiya was actively "cleaning house" on ex-Imperial Darksiders before making her big play. As mentioned, she abandoned Carnor when she didn't need him anymore, prodded Azrakel and Kadann into ganking each other, and assassinated her old accomplice Flint herself. Makes you wonder who else was on her list...

 

On posts you have 30 mins for editing, after that? It's done.