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PT Making My Day! - Pro-Prequel Articles

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jarren_Lee-Saber, Dec 10, 2014.

  1. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 19, 2019
    ROTS is my all-time favorite Star Wars film and the one that puts me through the most emotional journey from beginning to end. I'm glad to see that it is overall well-received by fans and for a lot of people is their favorite of the PT since it is my favorite of the PT as well. I also am a big fan of TPM (the movie that really got me reading EU material like the Jedi Apprentice books when I was a little girl) and AOTC. I hope that one day other fans might be able to enjoy those films as much as I do.
     
  2. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 7, 2016
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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  3. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    These 3 links were before TROS. Scott Mendelssohn of Forbes has always been a SW fan and was on Collider with positive remarks about the possible financial success of IX. He wound up saying IX was a bad movie. Someone in the former TROS Spoilers—I think TROS Reactions/Reviews asked what his thoughts were towards the PT. We have our answers.

    https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/www....as-natalie-portman-liam-neeson-last-ledi/amp/



     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  4. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    How is this supposed to be a "pro prequel" article, rather than yet another random hater spewing hatred? So what if this guy now takes back some of his bashing of TPM? How about this?
    It seems nowadays it's the in thing to "redeem" TPM while shamelessly bashing AOTC. Just another internet hater whose opinion I don't give a rat's ass about.
     
  5. rpeugh

    rpeugh Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2002
    This isnt so much of a prequel defense video (though he is a prequel fan) but more of a video about why the prequels have become more popular. Basically he theory is that with other fantasy franchises like Game of Thrones, world building has become more popular and is no longer a niche sort of thing. Where as in 1999 audiences apparently werent ready for that sort of thing. Not sure I wholly agree with that but it is an interesting observation.

     
  6. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 19, 2019
    @Sith Lord 2015 What's interesting to me is that the guy in question seems to rank ROTS fairly high but place AOTC at the bottom of his list. I always find it a little hard to understand how people can hate AOTC but really enjoy ROTS when so much about AOTC foreshadows and leads up to ROTS that ROTS to me doesn't make nearly as much sense if it was watched in isolation of AOTC. The slaughter of the Tusken Raiders, including the children, and the slaughter at the Jedi Temple, including the younglings, foreshadow each other. Shmi's death and visions of her death foreshadow Padme's death. I know that after I saw ROTS and saw the master plan George Lucas was building to at the end of the Prequels, I could appreciate AOTC more as the lead-up to that tragedy. I think a lot of the events of ROTS might have "come out of the blue" for me if I hadn't seen AOTC. That's why I think people sometimes underrate and under appreciate AOTC.

    @rpeugh That's an interesting perspective. Worldbuilding is definitely an important component of the Prequels and a big part of its appeal for me, though I appreciated it since 1999 when I first saw TPM as a little girl. I don't know if people weren't ready for the world building of TPM in 1999 since the OT definitely has some very detailed and intricate worldbuilding on Tatooine during ANH, for example, but perhaps this world building didn't appeal to some of my father's generation, while people of the millennial and early Gen-Z(like my brother, my little sister, and me) grew up with the Prequels and were always fond of them. Now it seems like the Prequels are suddenly popular because millennials and early Gen-Z have come of age, but truly the films were always popular with us as could be seen in the merchandise millennials and early Gen-Z bought. Prequels love isn't just some fad; for many of the people who grew up with them, it's an enduring affection. At least that's my opinion.
     
  7. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011
    It's because Millennials grew up and started writing articles, making YouTube videos, and posting on forums. Millennials like the prequels. That's it. That's the whole explanation. Not exactly rocket science.
     
  8. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 7, 2016
  9. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011
    Cult classic?
     
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  10. JoshieHewls

    JoshieHewls Jedi Master star 4

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    May 16, 2013
    Further proof that internet pseudo journalists don't know what a cult classic is. The film had too huge of an audience, and a satisfied audience at that, to be a cult classic.

    It's just a classic. Period. :)
     
  11. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 28, 2015
    Not an article, but I have been watching this YouTube reaction channel. She is watching all the SW movies for the first time. She watched IV-VI and now is watching I-III. She just posted AOTC today. She likes the films a lot it seems. :p

     
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  12. rpeugh

    rpeugh Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2002
    They showed her the incorrect order
     
  13. topgoalscorer_no11

    topgoalscorer_no11 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 23, 2001
    Do not hate me for this, for I love the prequels, including Episode II, very much. They are pure unadulterated Star Wars. However, we must speak our truths to one another.

    The problem with AotC is not the story or the plot points, or the set up for RotS (all are great) - it's the execution. The dialogue is risible, and the delivery of it by HC and NP, and their total lack of chemistry makes it even worse. This makes the central portion of the film, the romance, fall embarrassingly flat - this central failure is a huge problem for RotS, as it turns on the apparent importance of their relationship. Imagine the power of Episode III on the back of a love story the audience really cared about, and weep for a better future we'll never know. The abandonment of real sets in favour of CGI also really hurts the film. The technology wasn't mature, and Lucas asked too much of ILM and his cast. It is very poorly edited compared to other Star Wars films (TPM and RotS don't suffer from this). Part of the soundtrack is recycled, which annoyed John Williams at the time. Even the lightsabers look wrong. So to reiterate, of all the Star Wars films, AotC has, from any objective standpoint, the worst:
    • Script
    • Special Effects
    • Performances
    • Editing
    This doesn't render it worthless, or not enjoyable, or not a vital component of the Saga - it's all those things, but honestly RotS was a major return to form for Lucas. I shudder to think what opinion of the PT would be today if he'd turned in another film on the level of AotC.
     
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  14. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 19, 2019
    @topgoalscorer_no11 I'm not going to hate on you for expressing your opinion about AOTC or any other Star Wars movie so no worries:)

    I will say that I think to this day AOTC is probably the most misunderstood Star Wars movie. I think a lot of people didn't like the romance between Padme and Anakin because they wanted and expected a fairy tale storybook type romance as opposed to what I believe Lucas actually depicted which was something more unhealthy and tragic than that. So, I get the idea of thinking AOTC failed as a romance. That's what I saw when I first saw it in early adolescence. After watching ROTS and learning more about tragedy in general, I'm inclined to reinterpret AOTC and regard it as succeeding in what it set out to do with Padme and Anakin: show the development of an unhealthy, secret, and obsessive relationship between the two of them. The dialogue that then seems risible as romantic stuff becomes much more effective to me when I see it in the light I mentioned. I get not everyone interprets AOTC that way, but to me that's kind of why it is probably the most misunderstood and probably underappreciated as well Star Wars film.

    I guess for me there is simply no way I could rate ROTS at the top of my list of Star Wars films (which I do--to me, it is the best Star Wars film) and not rank AOTC highly since so much of the setup that makes ROTS work is in AOTC. Without AOTC, I don't think ROTS works half as well as it does. A lot of the drama and tragedy in ROTS don't make a lot of sense without AOTC.
     
  15. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    For all your explaining and reasoning, this is only your opinion, nothing more. It certainly isn't any "truth" that we "must speak". I happen to like all the points you try to present as proof of the movie's "failure". So you see yet again that not everyone agrees on your so-called "facts".
     
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  16. Mindless Monster

    Mindless Monster Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2014
    I think people that seemingly love ROTS and hate AOTC - or strongly dislike it - are the same ones who find Anakin's turn to be "rushed" or "unbelievable" when literally the entirety of AOTC is setting up the very issues that result in his downfall in ROTS.

    Despite AOTC being my favorite of all the Star Wars films, I can admit the editing isn't immaculate and a lot of the film has a very unrefined quality to it, but so many important elements do work for me: story, music, locations, the ambition of blending so many genres and so on. However, the complaint about the lack of real sets being a detriment just doesn't really make sense to me, especially compared to ROTS which I believe had no location shooting at all. AOTC had location shooting for Naboo & Tatooine. ROTS is the one that abandoned locations altogether and gets the most critical & fan praise of all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  17. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 16, 2016
    "The abandonment of real sets in favour of CGI also really hurts the film" ...The most ridicule complain of AOTC having in mind that is the movie with most exterior shots (much more than ROTJ which is the "greener" movie of the OT) and it can be easily seen. I like AOTC (my favorite of all also) also for ths abundance of exterior shots especiallyon Naboo and the absolutely marvellous world building . It is bold to have 2 water planets and 2 sand planets in one movie but they nailed it. And the Kamino shots are surreally beautiful.
    AOTC is the first full lenght movie shot completely digital. That is groundbreaking per se but ti also change a lot the "blend" of the colors. Many users are not too used to it or at least weren't. Now is different.
     
  18. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Geekiest RYLer star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Dec 7, 2014
    Not to mention a lot of those composited backgrounds aren't even CG, they're models or matte paintings. The OT never used miniatures for set extensions, nor did the ST or Anthologies as far as I'm aware. It's the PT alone that uses practical backdrops in that way (LOTR is another example I can think of, though in that series the miniatures were used more for long pan-around shots than backgrounds).
     
  19. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 1, 2012
    This is pretty cool.
     
  20. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 11, 2013
    AOTC provides the necessary context but, as explained by topgoalscorer, the issue lies in the execution. Coincidentally, I find the film to be largely stolid and dreary. There's none of TPM's vibrancy and precious little of ROTS' operatic sweep--just a number of (lovely-scored) stilted exchanges that begin and end with no sense of fluidity. There are nuggets of gold here and there--mostly on Kamino and Tatooine--but they're just that...nuggets. And this happens to be mere opinion, not objective truth. (As if such a thing could exist in art...)

    This doesn't bother me so much, as I'm not a fan of Return of the Jedi, either. (The first two acts are nearly torturous to get through, before Luke turns himself in to Vader.)
     
  21. G-FETT

    G-FETT Force Ghost star 7

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    Aug 10, 2001
    Loved watching those. Can't wait to see what she makes of ROTS.
     
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  22. topgoalscorer_no11

    topgoalscorer_no11 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 23, 2001
    This is an interesting point. You're correct that AotC has many exterior shots, and that Kamino is entirely successful as a location. Geonosis is also an interesting looking place. I'm not disputing the imagination involved. I think the issue for me, and possibly for others, is that AotC contains an abundance of shots containing CGI that simply don't look good to me. RotS appears to have more convincing CGI than AotC. Just from memory, scenes in AotC with 'dodgy' CGI (in my very humble opinion) include - the location the saber battle with Dooku takes place in, the Jedi Temple (especially egregious during the Mace/Yoda/Obi Wan discussion where Yoda floats along), Padme's apartment, the speeder chase through Coruscant, the outdoor shots early on on Geonosis when Obi-Wan arrives, the establishing shot of Theed, Anakin's speeder bike ride at dusk on Tatooine... Now it's possible, as others have pointed out above, that some of the issues with these scenes are not actually due to CGI, that other techniques are involved - but this feeling of 'offness' remains. For whatever reason, it looks fake and draws you out of the movie in a away that doesn't happen (for me) in TPM or RotS (maybe when Obi-Wan and Yoda fight the clones outside the Jedi Temple and a couple of other instances). Maybe it is the digital cameras. TPM certainly has a look to it that squares up better to the OT.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  23. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Geekiest RYLer star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Dec 7, 2014
    Well, of those locations, the duel hangar is a fully-built set, the Jedi Temple in that shot is a matte painting, the apartment is a full set with bluescreen CG window extensions, the chase through Coruscant is a mix of massive miniatures and CG, I think Geonosis exteriors are mostly miniatures, Theed really is CG I think, and the speeder ride is again CG, so that feeling of 'offness' you describe might have nothing at all to do with CG given the variety of techniques used to bring them to life.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  24. topgoalscorer_no11

    topgoalscorer_no11 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 23, 2001
    Obviously you know what you're talking about - so maybe it's the lighting? I remember thinking 20 minutes into RotS on opening night that this element was hugely improved. Maybe the colours in AotC look somewhat artificial due to the early adoption of digital cameras, as suggested above?

    But this below doesn't look like a real set to me at all. The textures on the walls at the back and on the arch thing coming down either side of Dooku's Solar Sailor look terrible, really low res - I struggle to believe it's a physical artifact. The beam of light on the left looks fake, the rocks on the floor are CGI... Yoda looks good, but that's about it. Maybe it's the low resolution of the master? I did watch it upscaled to 4k from my uHD player recently, and felt it looked better than I had seen it before. But the shot below is a good example of the kind of thing I'm talking about. Anyway, I feel I may be belabouring the point, and in the wrong thread too! I love these damn Prequels!

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Geekiest RYLer star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Dec 7, 2014
    Well it is real:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
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