Mandalorian Culture Article by Karen Traviss: Insider #86

and technically Open Seasons was wrong in the first place as the Marvel comics came first, and established that the Mandalorians were very much alive long before OS.

Oh and Fero place in cannon is questionable.

 

Well they'd be ressurected (obviously Boba Fett is a Mandalorian) but its important to establish that Jango was sort of the "patriarch" of the New Mandalorian Order.

 

FoM, the three million clone issue is a perfectly valid thing to be irritated about, and to cause concern for future publications by Ms. Traviss.

Especially as she seems to be hanging on to it doggedly in spite of the number being proved wrong multiple times by multiple people using multiple sources.

But let's not get into that debate again.

 

How does Marvel prove OS (Im presuming this means Open Seasons) wrong? The marvel comics just said that there were Mandalorians in the Clone Wars. Open Season doesnt say there were no Mandalorians alive before Jaster came along. Unless you mean that OS says that all the Mandalorians died except Jango and Marvel comics prove htat they didnt and the long before line was because the marvel comic was printed long before OS was. In which case what you said makes sense.

 

>>I am pretty annoyed with one of her retcons already though. To me, the Last Mandalorian was Jango Fett. Anything that contradicts Jango not being the last "true Mandalorian" before they are revived by Spar is cheap to me.<<

Are you talking about Ghez Hokan from Hard Contact? He was Death Watch, not True Mandalorian. As far as I know, Kreia's prophecy still stands. Or are you talking about something else?

 

Why would I refer to you as "she", especially considering that an analysis of my past correspondence would indicate that I would be more likely than not to virulently disagree with your position?

Not so much dismissing as clarifying and in a some cases reinterpreting, so far as I know.

You forget: "Always in motion, the future is..."

Exactly. The numbers presented in both Open Seasons and the original Marvel comics deal with numbers far too small to be presented as the virtual extinction of an entire race.

 

But hey, Ghez get decapitated pretty easily by Jedi too...

 

maybe Jango is the Last "pure blood" Mandalorian... Cassus Fett being his great(x4) grandfather.

akin to the Merovingian bloodline.

 

Spar and Galidraan being "Jedi propaganda" and attempting to ignore Ailyn Vel out of existence are dismissals in my book.

 

My bad.

Weird, I wasn't aware we disagreed that often. I always like your posts.

 

Since when did she state Spar and Galidraan were jedi propaganda? She thinks Spar is a little nuts, but thats all I can think that would even remotly resemble dismissals. And how does she ignore Aliyn out of existence? Karen hasnt even written a book in the same time period as Aliyn Vel's life-time.

 

Her syaing that Spar and Galidraan were Jedi propaganda comes straight from the posts made from "Quiet" Mandalorian who I'm sure would go into apoplectic siezures if he misspoke anything that Karen Traviss said. And from question I asked her on her livejournal, it's clear that she doesn't like Ailyn Vel and will probably ignore her.

 

I'm fairly certain the jedi propaganda thing was a joke. Karen maybe the Lady Mandalore, but making Galidraan and Spar "jedi propaganda" would be stupid, even from a Mando point of view. And just because an author dislikes something doesnt mean she will ignore it. Karen dislikes Jedi, and yet Etain and Bardan feature heavily in both her books as great characters. I see no reason that she wouldn't give the same treatment to Aliyn. Though. I personally dislike the idea of Aliyn being Boba's daughter, hence my own personal retcon that she is actually Jodo Kast's daughter.

EDIT: And if you have a problem with my Mando'ad vod, Q_M, I suggest taking it to pms. I will not have you getting my thread closed down over some useless flame war.

 

Did she give a reason why she dislikes Jedi?

I think the jist also of her Galidaan dislike is the implications that Jango Fett's group were the last of the Mandalorian people. Hence, if that is removed, then pretty much the importance of Spar is MASSSIVELY reduced.

Of course, I think Karen doesn't much believe in Mandalore either or that Jaster Mereel was Mandalore.

 

I'll say whatever I want, thank you very much.

On her liverjournal, she always refers to them as space hippies or something like that. Coming from a conservative background, she probably doesn't like that the afct that the Jedi are more willing to negotiate than kill people.

And claiming that the True Mandalorians of OS weren't the last official Mandalorian fighting force strikes me as being absurd. Jaster was the Mandalore fighting in a civil war; it would make sense for all the True Mandalorians were bound around him. OS implies that the Death Watch is a small group; if the True Mandalorians were much bigger, than it wouldn't make sense for their civil war to have dragged on for so long or for Jaster's boys to have taken such hard hits in the beginning, as OS also implies. And it's been established elsewhere that the Mandalorians by the time Jaster takes over have declined in terms of both numbers and quality since the days of Canderous.

This brought up another reason that I dislike Traviss' work: her attempts to have the GAR training include the troopers being infused with Mandalorian language and culture.

 

Her dislike of the jedi is, if I remeber, their ineptitude at leadership of the GAR in the Clone Wars. You can see this is the GGAR article itself under Captain Deviss. It is stated that Deviss (a homage to Karen her self) and his company was nearly destroyed due to the inable leadership of the Jedi and Deviss was forced to display uncommon leadership and independence and save his company from complete annihilation. And now I can see your point about Galidraan. I thought you were saying Karen had said the entire thing was propaganda, which is patently untrue. But, her saying the destruction of the Mandalorian people, which is hinted at in OS, as Jedi propaganda makes much more sense. Obviously, the easier retcon for her would've been to say that Jaster only had a few clans under his control, and the same for Jango. Meaning the Mandos werent completly destoryed at Galidraan. We can see vestiges of this in the NEC, where it is said "a small honor guard of Mandalorian warriros remaned on Mandalore, escaping destruction." Or something to that effect. Now, if any of the above makes snes, you get FoM's Ultra Uj Cake of Comprehension. See, I can make up fake awatds to get attention too.

 

Apologies for the double post all. Anyways, back to business. What does being conservative have to do with calling the Jedi space hippies? I call the jettise space hippies, and I assure you sir, I am by no means conservative. And she hasnt' claimed the True Mandalorians weren't the last official mandalorian fighting force. She has just included several characters in her book, such as Kal Skirata, who are Mandalorians. Not every single Mandalorian warrior in the galaxy could've been invloved in the fight between the DW and the TM. Various Mandalorians could've retired, been in the employ of other various mercenary groups, been in different occupations (Bounty Hunter, Journeyman Protecter, Defense force etc.) These were the warruors who Jango recruited to form the core of his instructors. Hell, even OS shows not all Mandalorians died alongside the TM and DW. Silas, being interrogated by Dooku obviously shows he wasnt slain in the Civil War or at Galidraan. Thism eans Karen has a precedent for including Mandalorians after the BoG in her stories. And finally, what problem is there with giving the Clones culture? The vast majority of their instructors were of the Mando'ade culture, their Prime Clone was the last Mandalore for crying out loud! Jango was told this army would be the death of the Jedi. Giving them the culture of the Mandalorians would almost be like payback for Galidraan to Jango. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

Its sort of the odd point that if we go by cannon, everyone that Jango recruits is a former member of the Death Watch.

 

Why does everyone like Keria's prophacy so much? I personaly, hate any prophacy coming true, and Kreia was the one overiding canon ere. the Mandos were already documented in fighting in the clone wars by that point.

 

Mostly because mandos tend to be wanked out the wazoo by fans, and her prophecy of them dying a death lasting millennia and ending with a "shell of their armor on a shell of a man" just seems fitting.

 

I like it because Jango Fett is so much cooler, more interesting, and more heroic than his son. Having him be "The Last Mandalorian" is fitting because he goes out with dignity.

 

We don't actually. I was referring to this one specific issue. Nothing else.

As do I yours.

Are you blaming me for her having explained them as such?

I'm almost tempted to say something about your signature and its bearing on the quality and tone of your responses.

In the first place, you're placing a great amount of weight on your assumptions. In the second, so far I'm aware, it's never been stipulated that Karen absolutely must needs groom Abel Pena's creation for a place in the spotlight.

To a mind not yet moved beyond such juvenile displays pettiness, I suppose.

Don't let your political convictions do your talking for you. As a British conservative, her views are somewhat closer to center than those of American conservatives, whether upper-case or lower-case, or myself, for example.

To claim otherwise strikes me as being absurd. Given the small size of the Forces involved in OS for both the Protectorate and Death Watch, and then add to that the fact there are no Mandalorian women present, anywhere (unless you want to count Jango's mother, which would technically include the entire population of Concord Dawn as Mandos), it's fairly obvious that the dispute is between the few Mandos who work as a group, rather than individually as was most common at the time, in the manner of Jango Fett in his later years, Boba Fett, Canderous Ordo, Bendak Starkiller, Gez Hokan...

Another thing I quite like, so I suppose that we won't be reaching an accord anytime soon.

I don't think Kal's ever been identified as such.

 

Though I do absolutly hate that pseudo-word "****", I do agree with one point. Some times, us Mando'ade fans do blow things about our favorite culture out of proportion. But on Kreia's prophecy, I always thiught it meant the clones. Whose armor, being based on Mandalorian SHock Trooper armor could be considered a shell of it, and of course the fact that they were clones of a mandalorian.
Its sort of the odd point that if we go by cannon, everyone that Jango recruits is a former member of the Death Watch.
Where in hell does this come from? We just went through this. Not every single Mandalorian warrior could've possibly been in the Civil War. This means there wiuld be atl east a few, if not many, Mando'adla verde for Jango to recruit.

 

PMS? It's reasons like this that make people think you're referring to them as "she"...

The gripe that gets me is the retconn on the Supercommandos/Protectors... although Fenn's original account does mention the Clone Wars, it also has a Cloaked Figure (Palpatine? Ars Dangor?) brandishing a photo of Leia as one of the "enemies of the Empire", which suggests a date not much before ANH...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

That picture is supposed to represent Padme according to retcon, who wore her hair in the cinnamon bun style like her daughter. The Protectors were sent to assassinate Padme remember.