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Lit A/V Mandalorian Spin-offs, Rangers of the New Republic, Ahsoka Announced

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Zorkel567, Dec 10, 2020.

  1. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 25, 2016
    I would hope that Rangers has its own unique villain(s) rather than just Gideon and Thrawn, to give it individuality if nothing else.
     
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  2. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

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    Jul 19, 1999
    For all that Thrawn makes for an excellent villain, the character benefits in audience perception by being the first new villain fans remember.

    If we had had Zsinj or Isard be in HTTE, would we now be saying Thawn's good but no Isard or Zsinj? Because one of those characters bagged the first spot instead.
     
  3. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Also Zahn kept brining up and writing stories about him decades afterwards. He has had a longer time to be exposed to people.
     
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  4. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 25, 2016
    The thing is with these Imperial Warlords is that they’re all essentially following the same formula: fierce Imperial leader with some strange visual and quirk that makes them memorable and uniquely threatening to the heroes. They’re all basically trying to capture what Thrawn established.

    So then you have to ask yourself if Thrawn will have the same impact in live action or will he pale in comparison to Moff Gideon, who is the prominent Imperial character of this setting and to the tv audience, the original warlord.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
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  5. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    I don't think Thrawan is all that so I find Zinj more interesting.
    As to live thrawn? I think he will be more a fleet guy and also blue, so kinda paler than Gideon.
     
  6. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 25, 2016
    Well, put it this way. I know a lot of people who like Jason Bourne or Jack Ryan more than James Bond, though Bond was the OG Spy/Assassin character whose original success sparked that concept being popularised. That’s basically Thrawn’s relationship to the Warlord characters.

    In live action though...he’s not the OG Imp Warlord.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
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  7. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 27, 2020
    True, the warlords are all following Thrawn's narrative example to begin with, hence why they all feel "lesser" than him in spite of Zsinj for instance having more books where he's "warlording" than Thrawn.

    Regarding the second thing, Thrawn was already a known character in Canon and TV audience (especially "Filoniverse" fans) thanks to Rebels, and he has a more distinct personality than Gideon, so even if he wasn't introduced as a warlord in the strict sense in Canon, he is already established as a mostly independent, quirky, intelligent and ruthless opponent on his own right, him being Gideon's mastermind or a greater threat than him wouldn't feel off for that audience since not only is he hyped up as that already, but he was introduced first.

    That is without going into the fact that Gideon is also following Legends Thrawn's "example", regardless of continuity, he still falls on the category of "warlords that were created to emulate the feeling of Thrawn as antagonist" to the point people saw him as the replacement for Thrawn before the real deal was mentioned in Season 2, hyping him up for a return.

    So i doubt Thrawn will be seen as a "Gideon clone" at all, but i could see how people might dislike it if he makes Gideon undermined in a certain way.
     
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  8. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Well there were others like him before him, but bond is the codifier.

    True he was just an imp officer. I think he will be the 'ships' guy.
     
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  9. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 25, 2016
    I’m thinking more of the casual fans, who have seen the movies and the seasons of Mando but not read any books or watched the animated stuff.

    Not so much in the sense of Thrawn being seen as an imitation of Gideon, but as a character he’s going to be directly compared to. I could genuinely see an instance where the fans like Thrawn and embrace what a big deal him being in live action is, but the general audience being lukewarm on the character and preferring Gideon to be the big baddie.
     
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  10. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 27, 2020
    The thing is Mandalorian and all the new shows draw heavily from The Clone Wars and Rebels, hence why Thrawn should be someone they accept as being "more important" than Gideon as a villain since he's already established in those shows, if people are willing to accept Ahsoka even though they haven't watched those two animated shows (which, let's be honest, most people have), then they would 100% be willing to accept Thrawn, especially if the introduction of him as the big bad is done gracefully, and there's also the fact that Thrawn is a bit more unique than Gideon so he's more memorable.
     
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  11. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

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    May 3, 2015
    So basically the arguments being made are:
    • Gideon could be more popular than Thrawn for Show Only fans because he's the first version of the "Imperial Warlord" archetype they've seen.
    • In the context of the EU novels, Thrawn is viewed fondly because he was the first, and if he debuted after Zsinj or Isard he might not be seen as the archetypal "Imperial Warlord".
    I think people are greatly overestimating the importance of being "first". Batman was not the first vigilante detective who went around punching criminals, but he's now the archetype and most well known. And for a Star Wars example, Obi-wan was the first Jedi Master Mentor Figure we saw. But did anyone leave the theaters after ESB saying that Yoda was a rip off of Obi-wan? And if we play that same thought experiment in bullet point 2, and pretend Yoda came first? I suspect people would say that after Luke's first mentor was a green frog man, his second master being a normal dude was disappointing. And while Obi-wan is a memorable and beloved character, in the pop culture consciousness Yoda is usually seen as the go to figure of the Wise Master. If a nerdy character in a sitcom wants to sarcastically make fun of another character spouting fortune cookie platitudes, they won't call him Obi-wan, they'll call him Yoda.

    Part of it may be due to appearance. Non human creatures tend to be more memorable, and more marketable. There's a reason I have mugs in the shape of Vader's head and Yoda's head, but not in the shape of Alec Guiness or Ewan McGregor's face. Likewise I see a lot of merch plastered with the face of Grogu and Din's Mandalorian helmet, but not as much with Gideon's face staring back at me. Thrawn is a striking blue skinned red eyed alien (and his appearance highlights that he's different from other Imperials and accepted despite his alien nature). So when it comes to memorability, he has a leg up over Gideon.

    It's not black and white of course. Hethrir is one of the many Darth Vader clones, he has gold skin, but he isn't as remembered as say Darth Maul or Darth Malgus. The bounty hunter old flame of Poe Dameron from TROS has a cool helmet, but I can't remember her name without looking it up. Gideon is certainly memorable, what with his darksaber and the acting chops of Giancarlo Esposito. So if they add more warlords, I think his looks and personality will make him stand out the way Zsinj and Isard did. But the alien, art obsessed strategist Thrawn is tough competition.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
  12. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 9, 2016
    I mean that's why I think Thrawn has a lot of advantages

    Not only was he first which gives him a edge

    but as everyone says

    He's a alien with the iconic blue skin and glowing red eyes
    he's got a cool looking white uniform that makes him stand out from the other officers (Isard is really the only one who got the distinct uniform)


    ALSO Thrawn i think has a bit of a ecosystem to him that i think Isard and Zsjing lack. What i mean is yes we have Thrawn but we also have the people around Thrawn that the TTT introduced like Rulkh, Pellaeon, and Cboath. So we had memorable interactions with characters oh and of course his ship the Chimera.

    Now obviously some of these things may not appear in canon like Cboath and well Rulkh is dead. But Pellaeon is probably gonna appear (I hope) and that dynamic duo will hopefully be something we see on screen.

    Thrawn has what all the iconic star wars characters have and that is they are visually interesting...and Star Wars gets by mostly by it's visuals then any character traits really. Isard i would say comes a close second though if we are talking Thrawn, Isard, and Zsjing
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
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  13. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 9, 2016
    @Irredeemable Fanboy

    I'll just say if your gonna do a Warlord of the Week type show....Stunt Cast...Stun Cast the heck out of those Warlords.

    Werner Herzog warlord guy is really only cool cuz it's Werner Herzog.

    So if their is a Warlord who rules only one planet and he's played by Charles Dance...Instantly fun even if he's generic in the script.
     
  14. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018

    I think this might hint at Thrawn being more anti villain in future, sure he will first be a villain. Many of Filoni's villains has later becomes anti-heroes, Ventress, Bo-Katan, Kallus, Boba. I think Thrawn will probaly have same arc going from a villain to more anti-hero or anti-villain type.
     
  15. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2016
    There's no information in this post that would hint at anything. Just fan response to fan speculation.
     
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  16. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Its hinting at how Filoni uses redemption arcs on his star wars villains.
     
  17. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
    Ahsoka to potentially begin filming in March 2022 for a Spring 2023 release according to Production Weekly.

    I wonder if Filoni will let Rian Johnson direct an episode as a thank you. I don't see him direct every single episode unless that was the plan when they decided Ahsoka would be a Mandalorian spinoff.
     
  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

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    Jul 19, 1999
    A thank you for?
     
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  19. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Filoni and RJ directing and making star wars together, yess pls.
     
  20. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Force Ghost star 5

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    Aug 10, 2005
    Except it isn't just Rebels. Thrawn's troops were exploiting and oppressing people in the Mandalorian.

    Regardless of his motivations and any sympathetic qualities he might have, it is hard to imagine him being anything but an antagonist to Ahsoka, at least to me.
     
  21. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018
    I mean i think Thrawn will start as a villain but will grow to become an anti-hero or anti-villain.
     
  22. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

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    Jul 19, 1999
    Thrawn's a villain, that's what he is, he's just charismatic enough to fool you that he isn't.
     
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  23. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018
    I just want my Thrawn and Ezra bromance together.:)
     
  24. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

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    Jul 19, 1999
    You'll get a toxic relationship and love it.
     
  25. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Ezra can change him with lovable loath cats.