"Mandorla" - Alex Irvine TOTJ/KOTOR/Nomi Sunrider 2011 Hardcover

Well, if it helps, the "Jeep" thing was only ever a rumor and not what Randy said to me at all, and with what little I know of trademark law it makes no sense anyway. I dunno if that's what you were doubtful about, though.

 

Well it matters little. But I only know of the Jeep thing, besides which that is ridiculously pathetic. If its to do with Tom Veitch then thats entirely different.

 

The Jeep thing was only ever rumor, albeit an all-too-widely propagated one. My guess (and it's only that) on what happened is that it was indicated that there were trademark issues with the name "Sunrider" and someone started hunting for that, and only found the Jeep thing, and threw it out as a possibility, and when no one denied that and nothing else was ever come up with, people just started believing it was true until it became the commonly accepted explanation.

Which never actually made any sense from the standpoint of trademark law: there's no way that Nomi Sunrider could ever confuse people about anything related to Jeep.

 

Of course it's ridiculous. That anyone belives it factual is more bemusing. Sydney Tower has a Skywalk. Skywalkers pay to walk over a glass floor a Nebulon-B height above the streets.

 

Now all I need is a Lando Calrissian novel with some Droids characters thrown in and my life will be complete.

 

"SoY: Excuse my geek-out but I am a complete and utter Star Wars junkie. Can you provide any details of your upcoming Star Wars novel featuring Nomi Sunrider?

AI: I really can?t say much. The story develops the relationship between Nomi and Vima Sunrider and involves a resurgent threat from Sith and Mandalorian forces. Plus I introduce a new character that I?m really enjoying, a sort of interstellar scavenger who runs across some artifacts that are a little more than he can handle."

The news page mentions it's scheduled for 2011, but I take it the new announcement is talking about this book?

Interesting information at any rate. Nothing particularly unexpected in there, but nice to see confirmation (or did we already know?) of what sounds like a Mandalorian Wars/Jedi Civil War setting.

A big part of me though is left wondering whether it won't be either of those though. I'd be quite open to a resurgence from the Kunite Remnants sometime between the Great Sith War and the Mandalorian Wars. Nothing galaxy breaking, but a Krath or Onderon-like uprising might be kind of cool. Mandalorian Wars though remains my preference, but something entirely original would still be very welcome.

It would be rather interesting if this played into the backstory of how the Sith set the Mandalorian Wars up and/or delved into the Battle of Cathar, for example...

 

Yeah, considering Nomi and Vima's close ties to Sylvar, the Cathar genocide is almost gonna HAVE to be addressed somehow, if we're assuming a Mando Wars-era setting, here. You just know Sylv's gonna be right there in the thick of it, and I'd like some answers as to her final fate (or lack thereof). But yeah -- 2011, now? Considering the contract on this thing was signed, sealed, and delivered well over a year ago, what gives? Unless it's an internal schedule-reshuffling on LFL's part, rather than an author-thing.

Likewise, given how much more closely Nomi is connected to the Kunite Sith than the Revanchist Sith, I think we're gonna be getting some nice surprises there, when this thing hits the stores. Hell, Mr. Irvine's already confirmed that we'll be seeing Sith in some form or fashion; this is the next logical, common-sense step. As you said, there's certainly some bridging potential there, and the first KotOR has already done some of this work -- it's up to him take it the rest of the way home.

 

Well, she has to get captured by the True Sith Empire and give birth to Ulic's love child in 3985 BBY so that I can tie both my favourite theories of where Revan came from together.

Because, on the one hand, KotOR II makes it pretty clear that Revan came from the True Sith Empire ("the call of home") and, on the other, Revan - Mr KotOR - being the offspring of the TotJ protagonists would just be cool, and Jolee said he reminded him of Nomi anyway.

 

This would be pretty neat. It would also tie up the ancestry issue of Sedriss QL, considering he's supposed to be descended from Ulic himself.

 

The Revan/Sunrider connection would be really nice, but I think it would be best to reconsider "the call of home" as something less literal, like "this was something he could really relate to".

Regarding Sedriss... where does that QL bit come from? I mean OOU, I've just checked the Wook for the IU story. I think it sounds incredibly stupid. Oh, and having him related to Ulic... I think we already said tons of stuff about Zayne being related to anyone 4000 years down the line, so this is just in there for cuteness, as well.


Did Mr. Irvine ever state whether he's a fan of KOTOR and especially TOTJ? I think that would help in predicting whether he'll write the totally cool mop-up story or rather something that's just based on information from general sources like the Holocron, which might eventually not blend in as well as everyone would like it to.

 

It comes from a German Fact File issue. The Wook has a scan of it in the BtS section.

 

Lightsider.

 

Ew. I wouldn't want Sedriss from Revan. He can be descended from one of the string of one night stands Ulic had during his period of wandering.

Well, the call of home is just a quick way of summing it up. Kreia's full spiel also includes:

"Where he came from, I do not know... any more than I know where he walks now" which I've always read as a backwards admission that she does know where he's from, since she does know where he "walks now" (the TSE), even if she doesn't know specific co-ordinates.

I mean, it'd also be quite easy for them to interpret it as you have, but I definitely think it was the intention of Obsidian - had they continued with the story - to reveal that Revan had origins in the True Sith Empire. I also like the potential for Malachor V setting off a "Sephiroth at the Nibelhiem Reactor" sort of reaction in him.

There's, "When Revan was coming into his own and learning he was more than he had been told", to consider as well. Which would tie in nicely to either the Sunrider or True Sith origin stories. I have to admit, if I had to choose between one or the other... I'd be really, really torn, because whilst I love thinking that Revan came from the TSE, I also absolutely adore the idea that Revan was Ulic and Nomi's son, concieved on Rhen Var.

1. "Rhen Var" even sounds a bit like Revan


2. The central character of KotOR being descended from the central characters of TotJ would be cool


3. Jolee says that Revan reminds him of Nomi


4. Revan canonically inherits and goes on to wear the Qel-Droma robe

You could also understand why Nomi might have kept their relationship hidden from Revan (and most others) if she was one of the key instigators of bringing about the more conservative, "less attatched" Jedi Order following the Great Sith War. And, you know, saying: "Uh, I might've got into the sack with Ulic just before he died" probably wouldn't go down too well.

This could lead into a truly awesome moment where Darth Revan confronts (Grand?) Master Sunrider only to have "I am your mother" thrown in his face.

 

At which point he promptly kills her... or get his ass whooped? I don't know which I'd actually want to see.

Much as I'm strongly in favour with the idea, I have to say that linking "Rhen Var" to "Revan" is stretching things just a teensy weensy little bit, Uli.

As for Obsidian's intentions: I agree. It also somewhat fits if you consider how their very first idea was for Nihilus to be wearing Revan's skull. I've always said I felt there were a lot of hangover hints (albeit unworkable in the final plot) that Nihilus was the True Sith in a kind of "Palpatine is the prophesied Sith, singular" kind of way. Had Revan run off to the TSE, it may have been their plan was for Nihilus to have whooped his ass and then gone on the Jedi eating rampage.

Pity that's not possible with the final plot, though I still remain a fan of reading "home" as a "Sith colony" of some sorts. Like whatever Tapani colony the Sith Empire must have absorbed at some point. "Home" needn't be the TSE itself, per se, just some world that got absorbed into it... half makes me wonder if the Great Sith War was a distraction to keep the Jedi occupied in the Core while the TSE quietly made a few worlds on the edges of the Outer Rim "disappear".

 

That would presuppose a fairly deep level of infiltration and subversion by the True Sith prior to the GSW, but if we take Canderous's dialogue in the first game and twist it slightly (the dialogue about the Sith "having sealed themselves away in their empire"), maybe that could work. I mean, we now know that the True Sith were hard at work behind the scenes for the last thousand or so years anyways, working up to their plan's grand climax, so who knows. For sure, they'd be watching Exar Kun's whole crusade from afar, and probably did seize the opportunity to exploit a few opportunities on the Republic's fringes, but to what extent...who can say.

Like Zor, I'm torn about having Revan descend from the major TotJ characters:

On the one hand, sure, it'd be an awesome way to tie the KotOR series back into those comics further, but on the other hand, it just seems kinda...well...precious and even hackneyed, to an extent. Sure, it'd give Revan one helluva Force-pedigree, but I'm sort of in David Brin's camp when I say that I'm not too swell on the notion of elitist, incestuous Jedi dynasties soaking up all the primo genes in the galaxy -- I'd love to think that there are other bloodlines bringing forth powerful scions from time to time who somehow manage to fly right under the radar screens until it's too late. It adds some unpredictable, tangy pepper to the whole thing.

And part of Revan's whole character mystique is that here is this guy who appeared virtually out of nowhere, and set the galaxy ablaze through little else other than his sheer charismatic force of personality and Force-talent. It's how the Jedi Order responded to this new wild card that's the interesting part, someone whom they could not control one iota, though they initially thought otherwise. If they couldn't even see a Revan coming from a mile away, it makes events several thousand years later resonate even more, and that's far more interesting to me as a reader, player, and fan. True, there are a few things there which sort of suggest a possible connection to Nomi, but like I said...that's a delicate thing to even try attempting. It'd have to be done just so.

You just *HAD* to go and invoke FF VII there, didn't you, Uli?

(For years now, I've long associated that game with a sudden, violent urge to kill somebody, much like whenever The Sound of Music comes on TV.)

 

The Sephiroth analogy has always been one of the scenes I so want to see of Revan in the comics. It's just so... fitting.

"I'm a Sith? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" </Vader scream>

IIRC, didn't the original spoilers about this book say that it would also involve the Exile? The suggestion being that either the Exile is the Sunrider descendant, not Revan, and/or Nomi or Vima's apprentice?

I can't remember for sure though whether that was a rumour or based on fact... but I seem to have a vague memory that it was actually based on something someone had said, however vague said statement probably was.

Having thought about it some more... there's actually a rather interesting second possibility:

If we factor in that the TSE is hugely different to the OSE in that it is, um, de-Sithed with the humans ascendant and there being no more Red Sith left, then it actually makes Exar Kun's empire... totally unTSE. Where you've had the Sith Emperor trying to purify the Sith and cleanse them of halfbloods and failures like Sadow and Kressh and all the other hybrids that screwed up the true Dark Jedi Lords revenge in the first place... Exar Kun being crowned by Marka Ragnos's ghost doesn't make any sense.

...unless Marka Ragnos wanted Exar Kun to build an empire to oppose the Sith Emperor who had turned against the Red Sith?

Gotta love all those Sith Civil Wars.

 

I think Abel actually wanted to make the Exile Vima but wasn't allowed. Which sucks, because that'd have rocked. Sure, she'd have been like mid-forties, but who cares?

I guess the Exile could be Vima's daughter (Sareth Dorn! Sareth Dorn!) and the "great destiny" all those master's sensed around Vima might have actually been hers.

Also, I'd rather not tie what Canderous says about the Sith retreating "back into their Empire" to the Hidden Sith Empire, simply because it doesn't work in the context of what he's saying.

"The Sith had gone, retreated back to their Empire... we thought it would be ages before they came back" identifies them explicitly as the direct antecedents to the Revanchists, which only really works with the Kunite remnant retreating back to a few, core, worlds and then Revan and Malak rejuvenating and ressurecting them, going on the attack once more.

 

Bumped to 2011?

There goes my 2010 SW book buy - unless the 3rd Bane book is also out next year?

I'm sure it'll sell reasonably well when it comes out, but I do wonder about the negative impact such a long gap between announcement and publishing could have. After all, this isn't a Big 3 book and it doesn't have a natural audience unless there's a good marketing campaign to make the KOTOR vidgame fans aware of it and, on a smaller work, the sales are more important.

 

Actually, the third Bane hardcover comes out in December, so we'll be getting at least one fix before year's end.

Also, given how well the other two Bane novels have sold, it's been proven that there's plenty of appetite out there for non-"Big Three" SW material in the marketplace, which means that the Nomi/KotOR book should have a decent fighting chance. Agreed, though, about them doing a bit of a marketing-awareness push just before it comes out to build support amongst the gamer community -- they're big spenders, and could give the novel a boost, especially if there's a "KotOR" emblazoned somewhere on the cover. It's worked pretty well for the comics so far.

Although I think I read a quote from Abel or someone (it must've been around late 2005/early 2006) where they said that LFL was considering having Canderous's dialogue there retconned to apply to the True Sith instead...which would then open up whole other cans of continuity-worms, but it could work. Still, I also prefer having it refer back to the Kunite Sith, since that's the immediate connotation there, and fleshes things out regarding their activities following the war, during the "Great Hunt" period, etc.

Interesting. Over in the KotOR Campaign Guide thread last year (or thereabouts), I championed a pretty similar theory about the nature of the Kunite Remnant's relationship with the True Sith, and how the Revanchists' absorption of them might've been the "tripwire" which alerted Revan to the True Sith's existence, if we're assuming some sort of infiltration/overtures to the Kunites by the TS beforehand. (Who was it who suggested Jorak Uln's sleeper "assimilation" by them? I really liked that explanation.) The other big issue being, as we've seen in JJM's e-books, there was a very strong Human component to the Sith Empire's military hierarchy; Korsin's father was like an admiral or something, and you had lots of humans calling the shots within the Empire itself, it seems. Whic

 

Awesomeness! Been hoping we'd see more of the Sunrider clan and the rest of the TOTJ crew sometime- though all the KOTOR material being in the timeframe it is almost made me lose hope. Almost.

Glad to see that I wasn't wrong to keep that tiny core of faith we'd see 'em again! ALWAYS good to have faith rewarded, right?

 

Really? Where is this from?

Remember that Vima was originally supposed to have Bastila's role in KOTOR I, so perhaps that was the foreshadowed "great destiny"?

 

Recollection.

I'm aware, but that was canned pretty early into development. The Vima/Bastila was also going to be more of an "old mentor" figure and not remotely the love interest in KotOR. Still, from an IU POV, how would it make any sense for people to get Bastila's destiny muddled up with Vima's? A mother/daughter mixup I can understand, but across entirely different bloodlines? Nah.

 

Vima as the Exile STILL is a handy-dandy solution to the so-called great destiny that everyone spoke about whenever they caught a glimpse of her.

 

I wonder... if Vima (or descendant) did turn out to be the Exile... would the fanboism of that connection offset the concerns about how it'd give the Exile a canonical name? At least we can comfortably call Revan "Revan" because he was "Revan" from a certain point of view. The Exile I still get fed up having to constantly call the Exile; giving her a name may upset some, but would the Vima retcon be an acceptable trade off?