Characters Mara Jade Skywalker Character Discussion * NEW - Quote Challenge! *

That's a very good point, rhonderoo. Luke was trained to kill as well. Mara's training was much more specific to killing, we can assume, though. Mara probably had a predatorial instinct, but was pretty mych a pawn.

 

I'm mostly a lurker here since you all know so much more than I do about Mara, but here are my two cents on this new topic.

Basically Mara was Palpatine's pawn. She was raised since early childhood by him and one tends to get attached to a parental figure, good or bad. He made sure she always knew one side of the story: his. I don't think Mara can be blamed for that since she didn't know any better and it was not her place to question her Master. We all know Palpatine was able to read her mind so I don't think he would have condoned any rebellious thoughts coming from her.

Sometimes I get the feeling Vader is considered more of a victim, but he had years of Jedi training, he was supposed to be an adult, therefore responsible for his actions. As a child Mara lacked the ability to undestand the subtle actions of her evil Master.

As for being a predator, killing was all that Mara knew for a long time and it was the only way to protect herself. She never did it for pleasure, just self-defence. That doesn't make her a predator.

 

It's like the old saying you always hurt the ones you love (or pawn) or maybe it's just karma what goes around comes around

 

Mirax_Corran: Mara...Well, I think that the desire to kill Luke after Palpatine's death was at least partially out of her control.

True. That Emperor?s command implanted in her head just before his death was obviously something she couldn?t control.

[image=http://www.suspiciousmindtrick.net/MaraJade/emperorsvoice.bmp] [image=http://www.suspiciousmindtrick.net/MaraJade/command.jpg]
(since we don't have screen caps to post )

It does raise the question of why she kept hearing it so strongly, though, after the Emp had been dead for five years. I don?t think it was something he could continually send her from beyond the grave, which makes you wonder exactly how much control he had over her mental processes to set up a command phrase that would be self-sustaining like that.


TKL: Palpatine was a master of using peoples' weaknesses to achieve his own ends. Most everyone who passed through his life was a pawn of some sort, certainly Anakin and even Padmé and Obi-Wan.

Definitely. Mara?s continued devotion to him is even more plausible to me now after seeing the way he played everyone in the prequels.

roo: But again, like Vader she had been manipulated so badly (I'm assuming here) that the relationship was a hard one to get away from. In pulling these two powerful people so close to him and earning their trust he made his pawns into predators. I don't think one is exclusive of the other. After all, Luke was a predator. He was trained from the beginning to go after Vader.

I think you pretty much nailed it there, roo.

MaraJade4S: I don't think Mara can be blamed for that since she didn't know any better and it was not her place to question her Master. We all know Palpatine was able to read her mind so I don't think he would have condoned any rebellious thoughts coming from her.

Sometimes I get the feeling Vader is considered more of a victim, but he had years of Jedi training, he was supposed to be an adult, therefore responsible for his actions. As a child Mara lacked the ability to undestand the subtle actions of her evil Master.

I?m glad you brought that up. This is when it would be nice to have some of her early story. We know she was a child when Palps got her, but we know virtually nothing about the details of how she was trained by him.

My question here would be ? playing devil?s advocate again ? was there an age of accountability where she could/should/would have realized that what she was doing was wrong?

On the flip side of that, she admits herself that she was controlled by the dark side back then??and we all know how that goes.

?What about you?? [Luke] asked, turning back to Mara again. ?You were the Emperor?s Hand. Why hasn?t your life been dominated by the dark side??

She shrugged uncomfortably. ?Maybe it has. It certainly was from the time Palpatine took me from my home till I got rid of that last command he?d jammed into my mind.?

-Vision of the Future

Come to think of it, that probably answers the question about the continued presence of his voice in her head: the dark side.

 

*deep breath*

roo: And I even got from Genghis for doing it.

He seems to like to surprise people!

Fan Fic is so much more relaxed. I love you guys.

Yub yub?

*hugs roo's moddish shins*

Jedi_Liz: I just wanted to get it out in the open that BEN SKYWALKER is MARA & LUKE's son, not ANAKIN SOLO's son!

Do I dare suggest the topic here of imagining what the offspring of Mara by people who're not Luke would look like?

Trace: Would you prefer a *thwack*?

Would you?

*looks at a particular thread in Lit*

Erm?

Umm... are you laughing at the apparent disjuncture in my character, or at certain Mara-fans?

Dunc: Now honey, you know that's not true. Two words: sex thread.

Umm... ditto?! (^^ see above?)

Erm. Sorry. One of those things that annoy me.

Jokes?

Amazingly enough, I do. I guess I read that part! Go me.

It was early enough in the book you hadn't quite given up yet?

It's only a theory. Theories are fun. And besides, methinks you're preaching to the choir here... Embrace the pain!

You seem to change your POV at least once in that remark... you're Tahiri?

kayladie: Well, that's two totally different situations.

Or possibly a similar sense of style. Inigo goes around telling people (as in the Roberts duel - "and I will say to him - Hello!", etc.); Mara could be negotiating with a sense of abstract duty which allowed Palpatine to program/command her, rather than simply with a piece of mind-control rammed thwartwise across her thought-processes... I guess that's what I've been trying to say; Mara has a strong sense of duty, manipulated by Palpatine, skewable to make her serve the Empire, but not in itself "dark".

Trace: It does raise the question of why she kept hearing it so strongly, though, after the Emp had been dead for five years. I don?t think it was something he could continually send her from beyond the grave, which makes you wonder exactly how much control he had over her mental processes to set up a command phrase that would be self-sustaining like that.

Well, was he dead? That's another whole different thread, I think; as to the idea it's the "dark side", I'm not sure how much I buy that unless you equate the "dark side" with "control"; and then, see above for my musings on Mara's psychology...

I guess the question is (and this is part of "predator or pawn" in a way), how much is she a creature of instinct, and how much is she a product of conscious control and training; I'd say a balance of both, personally...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Jedi Traceposted:
My question here would be ? playing devil?s advocate again ? was there an age of accountability where she could/should/would have realized that what she was doing was wrong?

On the flip side of that, she admits herself that she was controlled by the dark side back then??and we all know how that goes.

It is true that we know very little about her life as Emperor's Hand and her training years. She may not have realized what was going on. Palpatine was a despot and he had control over everything so I wouldn't be surprised if he controlled all information that leaked out or that he changed stories to suit his purposes. What I'm trying to say is that she may not have been aware that she was doing the wrong thing. Palpatine told her he was the rightful ruler, that the rebels were wrong, etc and there was no reason for her to doubt him. She had known Palpatine all her life and I'm sure to her he seemed a rightful ruler, so why would she doubt him? It's like when you tell a small child that the grass is green and the sky is blue. He grows up with these notions. Will he believe a total stranger that comes along and tells him something else?


And with her admition that she was controlled by the darkside, I think it would have been even more difficult for her to realize the truth.

 

Part of me whats to remember that we can't place the ENTIRE blame on Palpy for Mara's later issues. The conversation here is starting to remind of the Anakin fans who blame Obi-Wan for all the choices Anakin made that led him to Vader...

Her childhood and her time as the Emperor's Hand, yes. That's very much a non-issue for me, as she didn't have a range of choices that Anakin had. But once we start getting into her behavior AFTER Palpy's death... That's where it starts getting interesting.

Thrawn McEwok: You seem to change your POV at least once in that remark... you're Tahiri?

Embrace the pain is totally part of my EU philosophy. I don't LOVE it, I just... accept it. And move on. The same thing applies to fandom. People are going to have theories and ideas you don't like. Accept and move on.

Thrawn McEwok: Jokes?

Assumptions.

 

Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and the Last Command all by Tim Zahn introduced Mara. All well worth reading. They were my first foray into EU and sparked my interest to read more.

As to the topic, pawn all the way. After all, she was molded from early childhood to think of Palpatine as the Emperor, the only sanity in a galaxy gone chaotic.

I do wonder if Palpatine's last command was almost like a Jedi mind trick - only so much more powerful that she just couldn't resist it, even after his death.

 

You won't be disappointed those are arguably the 3 best EU novels and Mara is great in them

 

I second that

 

I haven't read I, Jedi, yet. But I heard Mara has a good part in there too.
And I love the line:
Exar Kun: Who dares?
Mara: Who cares?




I think that if the Emperor hadn't been destroyed when he was, Mara would have, at least, started to question some of his actions. Specially if she had been sent to kill Luke again. Plot bunny...

 

^^what they said. HttE ROCKS! I really love it...And need to buy it.

Well, remember, she did hate Luke, because of what Palpatine showed her: the vision of Vader and Luke teaming up against him. True or not, that's what she thought happened at that point, and she was mad. So maybe the part of her that wanted to kill Luke was forcing her to remember that command...

 

If I remember my Thrawn Trilogy, she doesn't have any commands when she first finds Luke on the ship, nor on Myrk (sp?) On Myrk it's understandable because all Force-ness is voided.

Now, after Myrk the dreams start coming back... but the first time we see Palps going KILL LUKE SKYWALKER is when she travels over Endor with Thrawn and they pass through the Death Star reckage, and as Leia put it, there was an 'emotional blood stain' there of Palps.

So my guess is, when Palps died the command was strong, but as Mara went through the Ysard stuff and getting herself into a position to eat, let alone kill, the command faded away to a managable level... but then when she went to the point where the command originated, it came back in full force just like when Palps died. Except now, she has Luke within grasp so it kept getting stronger. I figure if she had passed through Endor, say with Karrde, then went on, the command would have faded again.

I hope that made sense, just got back from double ships again... sleep... what is that?

 

I third it!

So basically Mara should never go near Endor again?

 

Nah, she's okay now... she killed Luuke, so all's good.

 

McEwok: Well, was he dead? That's another whole different thread, I think; as to the idea it's the "dark side", I'm not sure how much I buy that unless you equate the "dark side" with "control"; and then, see above for my musings on Mara's psychology...

I?m with Mara on this one. She didn?t buy that ?reborn Emperor? business, either. And yeah, I think the dark side is very controlling. Why else would a man who sacrificed his soul to save his wife end up choking her?


Leona: I?ll fourth that! I can still remember reading those books when they first came out and Zahn had me hook. line. and. sink?er. I meet people now via fanforce, etc. who haven?t read the EU in over ten years or have not read anything since the Thrawn Trilogy and ask about current events in the EU and they all say the same thing: ?Luke married Mara Jade? I remember her!?


RedGold: Stang it! You got me curious and I had to go look that up. You?re right, she doesn?t start feeling the Force again (in these books) until chapter 1 of Dark Force Rising:

It was all coming back, as it had so many times before in the past five years. The hunches and sensory flickers, the urges and the compulsions.

Which meant that, very soon now, the dreams would probably be starting again, too.

Angrily, she swiped at her eyes, and with an effort unclenched her jaw. It was a familiar enough pattern?but this time things were going to be different. Always before there?d been nothing she could do about the voices and urges except to suffer through the cycle.

Goes on about how this time she has the resources to find Luke again and kill him and that maybe then the voices would stop.


She was able to resist the command when she needed Luke alive but still obeyed it in the end.

So, I?m just wondering what y?all think here, if a conveniently-placed clone of Luke had not shown up conveniently at the end of TLC for her to kill, would Mara have been able to get the voice out of her head?

 

I think it would have made it more dramatic, that's for sure. Maybe if Mara had actually worked through her issues within herself, she might not have had so many problems later on.

But could she have done it? Emotionally, at that point, It would have been difficult. Those voices were pretty strong. Mara would have to face the Dark Side and defeat it head-on.

 

I couldn't agree more.

*whistles* That would be awesome to read!

 

*pops in from the Palpy thread*

may I ask -- sorry it's OT:

Mara, by her own, reluctant admission when she learned to use the word, framed Palpatine as a "man that she loved" in SQ.

What book is this???

Thanx.

 

edit: OOPS! I forgot to log out of my sock! Sorry!

-this is jediLiz! I forgot to log out!

 

I majorly goofed - I had forgotten to log out of my fanfic story sock.


Anyway, I'm logged into my correct username and I'll repost what I said and should have posted as Jedi_Liz in the first place.

I want to see a fanfic like this. Just with Mara. No Luke. No other Jedi. She needs to go to a Dagobah like cave/tree and defeat the dark side from within. Wish there had been an offical story like this.


p.s. does "The Littlest Gambler" sound like a good title for a Ben fic? I know its not Mara related......but does it sound catchy?

 

SQ = Survivor's Quest

Mara does need a book without Luke; something that shows her personal journey of discovery. Sometimes I think people don't like her because she and Luke are written like peanut butter and jelly. You can't have one without the other.

 

Unless of course you happen not to be American, and at which the thought of putting two things like peanut butter and jelly together sounds quite replusive