Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Jedi_Liz, Dec 27, 2002.
I have to say, I miss Mara so much since Sacrifice, but doubly so since the reboot.
Agreeing 200% with what madman007 and bel505 said. I would definitely be on board with Mara Jade doing something whether it was officially tied to the Jedi per se or not. She has so many skills and is such a dynamic character in her own right apart from Luke, which is not to say I eternally love them as a couple.
He not only deserves someone like her but needs someone like her LOL
The head scratcher that was mentioned in regards to TLJ is exactly why write Luke the way they did?
I agree there is so much to Mara OUTSIDE of romance with Luke, but her having a failed mission to kill him is a fun homage to the originals that I would hate to see disappear and it doesn’t upset canon.
But what I CANNOT envision being left out, because it wouldn’t be Mara, is her overcoming the Emperor’s last command... and Luke extending the redemptive olive branch in a significant way that changes her life. The lightsaber might be canonically problematic, but not impossible as apparently it had “its own” mysterious journey.
What I love about her journey is that it wasn’t Luke’s man love that drew her or changed her. He was was just himself, and it pissed her off, opened her eyes, and provided an example she would latch to in order to be a better person... even if she faltered here and there. I don’t want a Mara that doesn’t have that.THATS the journey I love.
Them falling in love is just icing on the cake.
So, so true. And I've always felt that she adds a whole dimension to Luke's life and journey that no other woman could or would be able to.
I read a fan fiction lately... um... turned out to be smut... but it had a very interesting premise that dove into Mara’s psyche...
Mara has been forged to be an executor of orders and to protect the ideals of a master; She was forged to be a loyal dog with emotional attachments to a master. This fic scratched the surface (and I mean scratch, because again, it was written to lead up to smut), of Mara’s social/personal bad decision making on her own as she has no accountability to a master and holds herself in low regards (not like bad self esteem, but a self loathing as a failed Hand). Luke teases her that she needs to commit to her training, call him Master... and boy does he not even realize how much there is to unpack there. Her not trusting to have a master again but needing one... and the level of loyalty/intimacy that is required... to be one unit of will and action. It makes Luke’s head spin as she can’t even verbally express it: cavernous depths that can only be expressed by the force.
Brilliant. And a poignant dynamic you don’t often see placed on a female character.
And then it kinda tumbles into something more primal... but a VERY intriguing perspective!
In the wedding comic she dreams of her Master, adorned in a fusion of bridal and stormtrooper attire, but it’s Luke as the Emperor and she flips! Only when they have the private Jedi Ceremony does she appear to feel at ease in her skin and as her own master. FINALLY.
It comes from the emperor abusively infusing affection with Mastership. She instinctively can’t tell the difference... and it’s a journey separating the two.
UGH. Love head canons!
I was watching a video with J.W. Rinzler who shared the rral reason GL didn’t like Mara Jade is that his vision was that Jedi never marry. This is a relief because when anti-Maranites emerge, they declare GL’s dissaproval of Mara like it was viceral and zealous, when it wasn’t.
I am Mara Fan for life anxd ehat GL thinks of her matters little to me, but I tire of haters of the EU using GL like a gavel to win arguments and in this case paint Mara as loathed by The Maker, when his dislike of her was based on his vision for the Saga not a personal ire.
GL was also the man who despised Anakin Solo's name because he felt fans would confuse him with Anakin Skywalker. I have a grandfather and uncle both named George but I don't confuse the two! And to your point about his thinking that Jedi can't marry, how did he think the younglings in Yoda's Jedi Beginner classes were created? Did GL rather think the Jedi become monks or have children out of wedlock?
Needless to say (type?) I don't hold much weight in GL's version of his Star Wars either.
I speculate, and I say speculate that GL envisioned that new Jedi intiates are chosen ftom families, but no Jedi would have a family, they were selected from the masses of fertile families.
Ironic that the focus of GL trilogies is a Jedi that didn’t follow the vow of celibacy, and had a famity. Luke who is Mara’s husband exists from breaking the rule that Jedi don’t marry. So what gives GL? You dislike Luke breaks the code and married Mara, when Anakin his father did the same thing.
Are we suppose to take a moral from the OT and Ot that marrying as a Jedi is evil, and lesds to Vader and Death Stars? Well I don’t but it, Luke’s faith in Anakin helped him prove Yoda wrong, that a Jedi can be redeemed.
Never thought I would say this... I'm going all Mara in my avatar theme!!!!
I always felt Mara worked better as a character serving the Emperor as a Dark Side adept and assassin like in 1998's Emperor's Hand.
It’s easy to convert a Jedi to the dark side when you say NO SEX. The Jedi of old fell because of a repressed love that corrupted with simple sith pressure.
Luke’s academy didn’t forbid love and marriage, but discouraged them being a distraction from balance. I love that. Luke evolved the order to a direction that was inclusive of love.
Obiwan was the isolated, single monk that GL wanted Luke to be. So glad that wasn’t his fate in the books.
But back to Mara... she’s just such a rich character that I appreciate. Assassin, smuggler, dancer, posh, slummy, warrior, Jedi, lover, wife and mother...
Depths that compliment our hero, Luke. Yet stand on their own!
In terms of love, Obi-Wan was certainly no slouch
He just obeyed the former rule stating the ban on marriage
That’s my favorite period of her life, The Emperor’s Hand. When she’s Luke’s wife and Jedi Master she still is fiesty, but I liked her using Force Choke to interrogate people or using her blaster to blow an alien’s brains out as the Emperor’s Hand.
Indeed, and we know from real life scenerio (cough RC, cough) that repressing sexual desires leads to acting out in worse ways. In fact, one could argue the Jedi repression of amorious feelings opens one to the dark side more easily. Something you alluded to.
I have a meme to celebrate Mara’s diverse life:
I think this is a really important point. Luke and Mara inspire one another. Mara, as the Emperor's Hand, was living a lie—she genuinely saw herself as almost a paladin, bringing law and doing justice, eliminating the threats to lawful order—because Palpatine had draped this blanket of illusion over her. But part of her always knew it was a lie, because she hated everyone in the Imperial Court: Vader, Tarkin, Isard, etc. When she meets Luke she's presented with actual, genuine honesty and virtue, and whether she ever admits it or not, she adores that about him even before we get into issues like their attraction to one another.
Luke, on the other hand, doesn't see a woman who needs saving. He sees a woman who despite everything that's been done to her is still one of the strongest, fiercest people he's ever met. Who despite Palpatine's manipulations never lost a true instinct for justice. And who brings a... finality and willingness to do what is necessary that he himself lacks (and is usually right when she says they should just kill someone and be done with it, a la C'baoth at Jomark).
Luke and Mara both lack peers... except when it comes to the other. They find one another inspirational, encouraging each to live a better, more full and wise life. I think that would be true regardless of their later romance. Unfortunately, Mara was pretty badly misused by the Bantam authors (although those problems began with Dark Empire and her absence from that story, when objectively speaking she should've been front and center in it given her history), and we miss out on seeing them together in the post-The Last Command period, which is such a shame.
(Which, uh, may also be why I'm writing my fanfiction... If you're interested in Mara fic, she's front and center for much of it! But it is an ensemble piece with a lot of other characters getting their moments, too.)
Shared this in another thread:
I adore how Luke and Mara are juxtaposed on either side of Vader, whom both interacted with.
@Bel505 RIGHT ON TARGET. AND IM INTERESTED.
you guys... it’s been so long since I’ve been able to talk about Mara in this capacity. It’s making me fall in love with her all over again!
Keep it up!!!
*throws a rave*
My annoyance about the state of Disney Star Wars (plus COVID) drove me to start working on my post-The Last Command fanfic a year ago, and writing about Mara has been pretty inspiring. A chapter of the story (the first scene I wrote) I posted as a stand-alone vignette: Imperial Service Record, which is about Mara on Coruscant. The longer story is ... much longer.
I should also add that Gabri has posted a wonderful Luke and Mara vignette set around that same time period which deserves all the attention in the universe.
I know some people think that Zahn made a mistake when he made clear that "Mara was never on the Dark Side" while she was Emperor's Hand, but ultimately I really like that creative decision. As I say, Mara perceived herself as a paladin, and dealing with the fact that she wasn't—that so much of the Empire was operating under the Emperor's veil of illusion, and that she was in part a tool of that illusion—is a pretty fascinating thing.
YES. And that aspect is so applicable to real life. Things aren’t always black and white... there are shades of grey and good people can be duped into doing bad things... in Vader’s case, it turned him completely to learn the truth... but it put Mara on a long and hard path to redemption... and it HELPED that she didn’t have the seductive pull of the dark side to drag her down. She was very close to putting herself in that danger, begging Palpatine to train her. I will forever find it interesting that the Emperor trusted her more, while keeping her morality and sense of justice intact, but didn’t trust Vader... his most successful sith student.
I would kill for an origins story that focuses on Mara’s upbringing and training... with Palpatine as a presence permeating the story. He was the motivation for her drive. How did he earn that? Was it an act? Was there any truth to his affection to her presence? Was it all a force veil? I WANT TO KNOW!!!
So, this actually makes perfect sense to me and provides an additional explanation for why he didn't corrupt Mara. Palpatine could never trust Vader, or any other Sith. The nature of the ideology meant that it was inevitable, even necessary, for his apprentices to stab him in the back the moment they saw an opportunity for it. But Mara, with her genuine sense for justice and moral center, she could be trusted to be loyal... as long as he made sure she never realized what he was. And as long as he lived, she never did. Even after he was dead, it took her half a decade to finally come around. Vader always knew Palpatine was scum; it actually provides some insight into Vader's disgust for Mara, too: e.g. "How can she be so naive."
It is interesting Vader never canonically tried to slay Palpatine, did he fear Force lightning? Or wad it that his Emperor was the last friend he had left?
Palpatine creating the Emperor’s Hand and Inquistors is bery pratical, as one member said, “Vader cannot be everywhere,” but it waa a great risk, it meant more Force Sensitives could overthrow him.
I think because the emperor gave him purpose, even if it was a corrupt one. He felt let down by the Jedi, betrayed by obiwan, and Padme and children dead... the only one to give him a life raft was the emperor.
BUT, though he didn’t canonically try to kill the emperor pre- Return Of The Jedi, once he knew Luke was his son and saw his potential, didn’t he say something to the degree of “join me. Together we can defeat the emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son”? Or no? I feel like the emperor’s purpose made Darth Vader just barley motivated but gave him a venue to channel all his rage and wrath... but a future with his son... that REALLY was something he wanted... a purpose he wanted to fight for. Even if it was against Luke.
DEEP AS A RANCOR SECRET DUNGEON!
Vader does plan to defeat the Emperor with his son: “rule the galaxy as Father and Son.” I now recall he planned the coup de etat with his wife Padme, “Don't you see? We don't have to run away anymore. I have brought peace to the Republic. I am more powerful than the Chancellor, I can overthrow him. And together you and I can rule the galaxy. Make things the way we want them to be.” (ROTS).
Vader clearly has the courage to overthrow the Emperor if it involves a family member, wife or son.
In Legends, Vader groomed his apprentice Starkiller to kill the Emperor, but that story tends to incur great ire from many fans.
Do you think Mara ever entertained sedition or was she always devoted to her Emperor without whom she’d have no purpose?
Mara was loyal. He literally could have kicked her and abandoned her on a distant moon and she would have justified his actions. He was her master.
There had to be a great level of grooming, abusive affection withholding, fake shows of love, and force glamour to convince the fiery Mara jade of his worthiness of such devotion.
She was forged to be a deadly, loyal tool and little else. Probably is why she had such a rough time coming into her own… Being her own master to finally develop a personality that wasn’t just loyalty. I imagine a lot like Black widow.
Mara then is the greatest Samurai, total loyalty to her Emperor. It would have been an intriguing aspect of her development if she wrestled with the idea of taking her life when the Emperor perished with the Death Star II. Then Luke could intervene and begin to teach her to live for something more.
Well, we actually know exactly how Mara reacted to the Emperor's death (it's shown in the "By the Emperor's Hand" comic), and ultimately her reaction is:
(1) Get away from the new people in power in the Empire, all of whom want her dead (they absolutely feared her)
(2) Resolve whatever outstanding obligations to the Emperor she has
(3) Ask herself "who is the Emperor's Hand if the Emperor is dead?" and find herself unable to answer the question until she signs on with Karrde
She never contemplated suicide (at least, is not presented as such). Mostly, I suspect this was because of (2): the Emperor had given her a very deliberate final command (YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER) and she wasn't about to disobey orders. But, putting that aside, deep in her gut she always knew the Emperor was evil, it just ... wasn't permitted into her conscious thinking.