Books Master and Apprentice, a Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan novel by Claudia Gray

It's always seemed rather obvious to me that the Jedi should be conceived of as protectors of the natural order and their purpose should be bigger than acting as paladins for the Republic.

Unfortunately, decades of Legends had the Jedi as little more than action heroes. The introduction of Vergere sort of moved them into a grander, more metaphysical direction(though ill-conceived for my money, as the old DE sourcebook laid out the light and dark sides of the Force the Jedi's conception of themselves should have always included the light being all-inclusive in that it recognized the natural entropy of the dark while shunning wickedness) only to go right back to Jedi as big damn heroes blowing things up and cutting people down with the continuing Denningverse.

Canon has embraced the notion that Jedi as action heroes of the PT and Clone Wars actually represents a loss of the Jedi way. Indeed that the Jedi as paladins of the Republic was also a loss of the Jedi way. The ST specifically (also Rebels), has embraced the idea that the Jedi's purpose should be so much bigger while also more humble. As keepers of the metaphysical order.

Perhaps their origins were simply knowledge, but with knowledge grew the need to act as protectors of the interplay of the yin-yang of the Force... especially as individuals emerged who used their knowledge for personal gain that violated the natural balance.

IG: @jedisufism

 

@Dawud786

Oh yeah there has been a lot of that nature/natural order vs mechanical/unnatural order stuff in Canon a lot these days...Filoni especially loves his Tolkein.

I think like Mortis and the Yoda Arc from TCW were trying to go for that nature thing too.

Also the Qui-Gon age of republic comic sorta dealt with this...and I guess the Yoda Arc in the comic

 

Luke from the NJO was right!

 

He wasn't entirely wrong at any rate.

IG: @jedisufism

 

Jedi as "Guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic" goes back to A New Hope, as does Jedi heroically blowing things up. And the demonization of prequel era Jedi as having "lost their way" in particular has always struck me as disingenuous. You can't have stories where the audience is supposed to cheer as Jedi defeat enemies with names like Whorm Loathsom, and then turn around and have a bunch of hand wringing "aw jeez, are we doing the right thing?".

I'm kind of sick of stories deconstructing Jedi, and if it's done well I can like deeper stories about the Force (though if done wrong it can come off as pretentious), but there's nothing wrong with Jedi as whiz bang action superheroes. They're modeled after knight errants after all.

Back to this book, I liked that while it mostly comes off in favor of Qui-gon's perspective, it showed that both Obi-wan and Qui-gon could be right about some things and wrong about others.

 

This was a cute book.
I'm a sucker for anything Jedi Temple and togruta... so imagine my delight reading the various descriptions of what life is like for the temple's inhabitants and getting a look at Valorum's predecessor!

What a supporting cast.
Rael Averross has the potential to really stay in the hearts of many fans. I love that in the end Gray didn't choose what might have been the "easy" path for the character.

Fanry is a nice precursor and (kind of foil?) to Amidala and how Qui-Gon comes around to seeing through her decoy charade in Episode 1.

Pax & Rahara were quite the dorky item.

The "BEFORE" chapters were probably my favorites.

A standout:

Spoiler

Dooku confronting the Falleen assassin. I really felt the young Qui-Gon's fear of the sudden darkness that had overtaken his master. At the end of the day, the Jedi - as masters and apprentices - are a family. And it must be absolutely terrifying to see a loved one slip like that even if they have a super imposing and controlled demeanor like in Dooku's case.

Hats off to Gray for making it feel really special every time the book flashed back and we got to see the grander picture - a lineage of Jedi masters and their padawans.

 

The thing is, I think George intended a bit of deconstruction of the Jedi in the PT... he just didn't execute it well. Then he pursued it in TCW a little harder. We see this most strongly in the "Wrong Jedi" arc that leads to Ahsoka leaving the Order. He's never all that up front with it in the PT, but implies such with Yoda saying there are arrogant Jedi in AOTC plus Qui-Gon saying the Jedi can't fight a war for the Naboo.

While we know the Jedi are the good guys, that doesn't mean some of their actions aren't troubling in the PT or the Clone Wars. Palpatine is the Sith Lord that set up the entire war, but a Jedi coup is still pretty troubling. Then there's their assent to using what amounted to a slave army, or for that matter rushing head long into a war without pursuing any serious attempts at diplomacy with Separatist systems.

There's a lot about the Jedi that's not a good look. Regardless of how noble or good they actually are.

Nevertheless, if their initial purpose was pursuing mystical knowledge(which was both their Legends origin and even more dramatically their canon origin), their primary purpose was spirituality... not knight errantry. That came later, surely, as they realized there was a time to act to keep balance but at some point along the way that focus was lost. Dogmatized. And pledged to exclusive service of the Republic Senate and its whims rather than following the will of the Force.

That was a theme running throughout the PT, sparked by Qui-Gon Jinn.

IG: @jedisufism

 

The Force is always going to be a mess because the franchise has too many cooks, and the old head chef used to waffle on in different directions about it.

 

It's like the Bible. Unless people are doing something that pisses God off, there's not a whole lot of drama. If everything is chill there's no story to tell.

IG: @jedisufism

 

That's true but I don't mean "out of balance, in universe". I mean a mess as written because the writers themselves are never all on the same page.

 

You'd think the Story Group would be a little more on top of this stuff with an in-house Force bible.

Filoni's area is more coherent probably because of his close association with George, and directly talking with him about this stuff. Not sure why this hasn't been brought out more in the ST. Frankly. I know you're not a fan of the Mortis stuff, but the ST and the culmination of the Skywalker saga and the whole arc of the balance of the Force would seem like the ideal time to draw those sorts if threads into the main saga more overtly. Not saying the Ones need to appear or anything, but that kind of direct metaphysical lore would seem to play a big part in the resolution to me.

IG: @jedisufism

 

Mortis is a Star Trek story. Do it again with Kirk, Spock and Bones and I'm down.

 

Mortis is a perfect fit for SW, best SW can be if you ask me, BUT now I want to see THAT proposed Trek episode.

 

Cool, glad you liked it. For me, something that would never work in SW movie is automatically disqualified from being a "perfect fit" for the franchise.

The only thing that strikes me as being more out of place is the World Between Worlds.

Having said that, I would genuinely love to see both Mortis/the Ones AND the WBW appear in a live action Star Wars film. Either I'm proved wrong, which would be great and resolve my problem with the TCW/Rebels appearances, or I'm proved right and I get to simply enjoy the fact.

Same goes for helicopter lightsabers. Though I think my best bet there is Fallen Order.

 

@Dawud786

And THIS right here, is why we have so many problems with Jedi interpretations especially post PT.

I mean it's easy to portray Jedi in the OT....Cool Samurai's who defeat the evil wizard.

Once the PT comes in and ....Whatever George was trying to say plus bad execution, then that essentially leaves it up to various EU authors (Some great, some not so great) to interpret what George might have been saying.

I mean, I know alot of people theorize that in a way, Rey and Kylo represent the Son and Daughter. They got it all set up for them.

Mortis though I think in NuCanon has become a bit of a core theme though...At least I know a lot of people think that.

 

I think George did a fairly decent job of what he was going for:

The Jedi are arrogant and tradition-bound but, overall, good people. It actually is the one thing that I liked about The Last Jedi. After all the crazzapping on Luke, the Jedi, and the past--Rey acknowledges that they weren't perfect but they were worth following anyway. You don't have to be perfect to be a valuable contribution to the galaxy.

Weirdly, this is a thing that Return of the Jedi made clear.

Ben and Yoda were not perfect and Luke still admired them.

 

Wise words indeed!

Perfectionism is unachieveable and perfectionists often fall and falter or turn or die trying. Do not try, just do. Do your best, be yourself and it will be enough. Nobody needs to do it all alone and nobody needs to be perfect. A lot of people never got ROTJs meanings I fear... which is why I was glad when TCW and new movies reinforced ROTJ exponentially to the chagrin and schock of many, whereas I and others were relieved and enjoyed it that the original message was still upheld.

 

A good view and I hope live action films will include it or something akin to it for I believe, even past movies already did if you know where to look.

Regarding out of place, I think a lot in SW was out of place before we got used to it

Regarding Coptersabers... I feel you. I hope a retcon will tell they can't actually let you fly but Inquisitors used the Force to jump, levitate and it only looked like the saber is responsible. Did FFG feature those yet and say anything about them?

I noticed they follow a formula that Filoni started with Lucas on TCW and ever since Rebels, movies, games, even books follow it.

Like every season of TCW and subsequently Rebels had at least 1 arc about the Force, 1 arc about Mandos, etc. they evaluated what fans like or what fansubcultures exist and try to put at least 1 thing specifically for each into every product so nobody skips paying. Some fans dislike stormtroopers where others get everything with a new trooper design. Throw in some Force mumbo jumbo and those too will buy it.

Like every new Sequel movie has new trooper, new droids, new cute-factor alien, droid or character, there are these core subculture elements every story and medium needs to check off to hit the broadest number of fans possible, even if only with tidbits.

You can bet on some Force related stuff in the Mandalorian despite it being a different story. Be it a cameo or else. Likewise you can bet on new troopers in Kenobi or Cassian Andor shows. Nick Noltes Ugnaught probably is the cuteness factor of Mandalorian .

So if they include Force mystics due to their formula or truly believing in its message, probably both, I like it.

 

Yes, that's the main problem I have. Jedi should save people, protect the weak and innocent, and ensure justice? Typical Knight Errant/Super Hero stuff? I think most people would agree that those are good goals to have. (Though there might be disagreements on *how* Jedi should do this sort of thing, when they should get involved in Republic politics and when they shouldn't, etc).

But saying, "No, Jedi should instead follow the will of the Force"? It the will of the Force *isn't* that whole "be guardians of peace and justice" thing . . . then what exactly is it? Probably varies from author to author.

 

I think its canon the copter sabers actually have repulsors built into the hilt.

 

I love those heli-sabers. Gets me right in the Inspector Gadget nostalgia.

That is indeed canon. People just see the spinning blades and think that they work the same as a helicopter.

 

Wait so theoretically one could just hold their repulsor-saber up and be "flung" across the sky like Thor? Why has nobody done this yet?

 

I mean, in fairness, you can't fault people for thinking that when I'm pretty sure that was the intention. Otherwise, why couldn't the Inquisitors just use repulsor back packs, or use the repulsors in the hilts *without* pressing the spinning button?

When they made that scene, they wanted people to think "helicopter blades", wether the blades actually work that way or not.

 

Yep. They think it's cute.

Almost like its a kids show.

 

Now I want to see a sabercopter in flight that has the blades not lit... heck those Inquisitors could drop right out of the sky like Ninjas in the night and surround you! Scary! One might even copy classic asian martial art movie incredibly unnatural high jumps, levitations and flight maneuvers for SW now with them. Listen up Disney, here is your sell to hit the Asian market and clean it out!

But if repulsortech is that miniature that it can let you fly hundreds of meters in the air easily... and fit in a saber with not much room to spare, why is it not naturally included in clothes and all? No more safety rails, no kids falling into Coruscants chasms... Heck, why even bother with the big clunky repulsors in speeders and else? All it needs is a tiny thingie and you can be an airspeeder. Landspeeders are outdated. Even more stupid now why Fett carried his big backpack jetpack which was prone to malfunction if one even looked at it. Like father, like son, they learned nothing of Cad Bane and his ankle-boosters with limitless supply of fuel out of thin air.