Saga Mega thread: Sequels and spinoff films and the overall saga

The two aren't mutually exclusive. An "exciting, swashbuckling adventure" can be much more than what it is on a surface level, and that what Star Wars was. Because Lucas imagined and wanted it to be that way. This mythmaking and worldbuilding was part of what made it last and resonate with so many.

 

The Whills were one of his core ideas when he imagined SW. Somehow, he always struggled to include them into the stories . Now it seems like they would have been at the forefront of the ST. Can you imagine the worldbuiding this would have given us? Rather than small inconsequential mention in reference books, we would have a more in-depth look at those beings and the midi-chlorians - contrary to other people, I never had any problems with the concept of midi-chlorians. To expand on the mythology of the GFFA, that sounds so exciting because usually it's the TV series that expand on those not the movies. And now I want to know more. Maybe he'll tell us more in the future. I hope so.

 

The grass is always greener.

 

I don't see what's so wrong about knowing what he wanted to do for his version of the ST. The movies won't suddenly disappear just because he tell us what he originally planed to do. We'll just have the original creator's intention which you may agree with or not, nothing more. Then fans can endlessly discuss whether those scattered tidbits of information would have been better than what we actually got, but that's just par for the course at this point.

 

There's nothing wrong with hearing it.

It's the narratives that get built up around these revelations, such as have been made since 1977 that should be treated with extreme caution.

Many of us have gotten impressions of what will or should happen in subsequent sequels, prequels etc. Impressions formed by what Lucas has periodically told us he wanted to do or were "supposed" to happen. Some of which have turned up in some tenuously related form or other. Others being completely discarded or severely demoted in its apparent importance. What has come out has only a tenuous connection to what you could reasonably have expected based on what Lucas has indicated to fans in the past. Essentially, the only concrete thing we could say has been delivered is Anakin turning to the dark side around the same time the Empire came to be, which is even mentioned in the OT itself. In other words, Lucas could have said nothing in between movies and told us that what we got was what it was always supposed to be and we'd have been none the wiser.

You could say that what Lucas has delivered is what it was always supposed to be, regardless. Since he's the author, and that's that. But telling us it's supposed to be one thing and doing something different that is also what it's supposed to be Some of us have long since stop placing too much value on what we've been told is supposed to happen. And neither does the fact that what we've been given was what was "supposed" to happen mean that it must be good, or bad.

For a few years I toyed with ideas that what Lucas indicated he was going to do would have been better than what we got. That's the "grass is always greener" delusion. It's best to nip that kind of thinking in the bud. But, for some, it continues to this day because, even without knowing what it is, it's possible to say that the grass would have been greener if Lucas had done what was "supposed" to have been done with the ST.

 

Obviously we'll never know since he never actually made the story and probably never will. Now we just have some tidbits here and there. Could he have changed his mind while making the movie if he was the one writing and directing it? Absolutely and very likely I might say, but, there are some things that never changed and that he kept saying since day 1. Maybe the finished product will have been completely different than what he told us, who knows? But since he won't do it, he'll just mention the broad things such as this one - which coincidentally has been around since the beginning - to give us an idea of what kind of themes/ideas he wanted to explore. I wonder how he would have made it since the Whills seems to be a big concept he always struggled to include in a saga centered on a single family and movies generally mention things but never go too deep into them - that is apparently the role of the animated TV series. From what he mentioned in this interview, this is perfectly in the continuation of what he explored in the series, the Mortis and the Yoda arcs in particular. Those two arcs go really deep into the Force but this is in animation, not live-action. However, GL is known to take risk and experiment despite all warnings and I could see him doing it if he still owned the company.

 

There has been no confirmation on whether the Priestesses and the Whills are one and the same though you could argue that they are based on information GL gave us about Qui-Gon's training. I'm the complete opposite, I loved every wacky Force shenanigan stories because the Force is so central in SW and that we know so little about it all things considered. Did you like the concept of World between Worlds?

 

I'm happy with Lucas's belief in destiny and free will. That we have free will to follow our destiny. The if and the how we fulfil it is determined by the paths we choose.

The force is as good a metaphor for destiny as you might want. It can empower you. But power can corrupt. Yet some people are destined to wield greater power than others. And it does not limit great destiny to those with great power(s) and so on....

 

Actually, they are not necessarily the same. Assuming the content of the deleted scene still holds, Qui-Gon stated that he learned from a Shaman of the Whills. In TCW, it's never revealed how or from whom Qui-Gon learned the secret. Only that he was tasked to commune with and train Yoda (and Obi-Wan).

 

I thought the midis spoke to Force users. Nope, apparently they speak to the Whills. Maybe Force users think they're being spoken to but they're just eavesdropping on conversations. Anyway, now he's saying that the microbiotic Whills feed on the Force. That's when they're not speaking to the midis (bcs being microscopic is no excuse for speaking with your mouth full !). It's this feeding on the Force that allows them to "control the universe". All of this leads to one inescapable question. Could it be that these days ol' George is a few cards short of a full deck?

 

I don't think the Whills are literally microbiotic and I don't think this would have happened in VII either. There would have been some build up first before their actual appearance for it to make sense. Characters looking for clues and following their trails while things are still happening in the background - political intrigue, Vader's grandchildren etc. They are part of it, but It's not just about about that.

 

You misread everything he said and George is the one a few cards short of a full deck?

As far as Star Wars goes, he's the only one with a full deck.

 

Misread? What's been misread? Here are his key points:

- His ST was going to get into a microbiotic world.
- In this world are creatures who operate differently than humans, called Whills.
- They feed off the Force.
- They control the universe.
- The midi-chlorians (also microscopic) communicate with the Whills.
- People are vessels (like cars) for the microbiotic Whills.

I don't see what's been misread.

 

"The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force."

 

Seriously? Bolded for emphasis:

Here's a reminder:

"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force." - Qui-Gon Jinn

 

For better or worse it would have opened up new ground. I feel like this trilogy has largely been a waste, because it feels like the franchise is spinning its tires. Delving into the Whills is exactly the bold & creative direction that I was starving for when this trilogy was announced, but knew would never come to fruition without a visionary like Lucas at the helm.

 

I was expecting an interesting Force Journey during the ST.
Like Darth Bane not being able to use the Dark Side of the Force in Path of Destruction. Throw in a trip to the Tombs of Korriban and Lehon,
Or Jacen's time with Vergere in Traitor. Cut off from the Force, the lessons that they went over
Darth Kreia's stuff in KOTOR 2. Not real exposure to it but have heard of some of it.

 

I've read fan speculation that midichlorians feed on The Force and that the prequel Jedi misunderstood midichlorians as the cause of Force-sensitivity.

 

I thought they ate the Force Maybe it's based on the old saying "You are what you eat".

Delving into the Whills sounds great. Getting into the "microbiotic world" featuring creatures who feed on the Force & control the universe sounds abysmal. Lucas keeps leaning more towards Star Trek. First it was spaceships in Indiana Jones, now this.

He was at the helm & had every opportunity to make the trilogy exactly as he wanted. He just needed to put a fortune of his own cash & his company on the line. He wouldn't. Instead he thought he could pocket $4bn & then get Disney to take all the risks. When he spoke with such regret about not finishing his story I wish Cameron had pulled out one of a dozen previous quotes where he said there's no story beyond RotJ. When Anakin dies, that's it!

 

Long have I speculated that the Whills were behind the Jedi-Sith conflict. I've also speculated that the midichlorians prefer the dark side and some dark side being infected lifeforms with them.

 

Maybe in GL's story the universe itself is one big living organism & Star Wars is an allegory for a bad case of the flu. Pretty sure there's a Trek episode like that.

 

Beautifully put!
The ST sure lacks the original vision necessary to expand the scope of the Saga.