Merging the Amphitheatre and YJCC (back) together. (Now talking about where sports go)

Remember that just because a decision reached is opposite to your desired conclusion does not equate to a bad decision having been made.

 

My preferred conclusion is to leave things exactly as they are. I've been arguing against a sports forum for as long as I can remember. I'm just trying to establish what decision has been made, and where sports discussion in the JC is going.

 

There will not be a sports forum. That decision has been made. We're working out final details as to how much and to what extent sports threads can expand as individual threads in the JCC.

 

ObiWan506 posted on 9/30/05 9:08am

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Hey, remember me? I'm the one that created the Proposal in the first place. But you have to be more objective then that. As I've said before we're taking baby steps with this. If we allow certain sports threads outside of the existing Official Threads and the amount of threads shows us that we need a new area to put them because there's so many, then we'll go back and discuss whether that constitutes a new Forum. [hr][/blockquote]





[color=red]I believe there is enough of a demand now & that trying to add more sports threads in the JCC will just stall any possibility of a sports fourm. Yes I know you created the proposal, but that was before you became a mod & position on this matter is possibly influenced by the fact that you are now a part of the MS.[/color]

 

ObiWan506, see how quickly it all changes?

 

That's interesting, but what details would they be? You either have things as they are (in which case there's nothing to hammer out), or expand to allow threads that could have their home in the one of the official threads - in which case there is. However malkie has implied that there's no wish to allow that to occur.

So what's being discussed?

 

Basically we're all giving our input and the JCC mods as a collective group will make a decision they believe is in the best interest of the forum.

 

Yes I know that

I have faith that the JCC mods will get it as right as they can, but... it hasn't answered the question.

 

I'm 100% in favor of leaving things as they are. I don't see any reason or need to change.

However malkie has implied that there's no wish to allow that to occur.

Very true in some quarters (like mine). Others feel some expansion is okay. I don't agree with that, as I'm sure anyone in the MS knows.

Perhaps it would answer your question if I just said that there's debate on whether there should be any kind of "compromise" at all. From my perspective, there shouldn't be, and things should go on as they are. If the "compromise" view is the one that prevails, then we have to decide just how to go along with that.

 

Thanks KW.

I hope your side wins out.

 

In a website supposed to be about fun, you guys (the MS) do all that you can to supress it wherever possible.

 

Sorry you feel that way. You could try not attacking the people that made this decision and offer some reasonable constructive suggestions though. Just a thought.

 

Ok, here is some reasonable thought: How in the world would adding a sports fourm be so bad for the mods to do? I believe every point that was brought up in the proposal are valid & that the JCC wouldn't suffer in the slightest if a sports fourm were to be created. Quite frankly, we have the Ampitheatre & the Senate created, and did the JC turn into hell because of it? No.

 

ObiWan506 has turned to the dark side...

 

Where's the head-wall smilie when you need it?

Have you actually bothered to think through and understand what it is that other people have tried to say about this subject, or is it a case that unless you are not being given what you want, as you want it, when you want it that people are deliberately out to make your life a living hell?

Just because the MS does not agree with you does not mean that they are either wrong, nor deliberately trying to be bastards.

Just because ObiWan506 has become a mod does not mean that he has suddenly become brain-washed as part of the MS induction so that he goes against everything that he was saying in relation to this topic despite what your personal paranoia and persecution complex lead you to cry out as "truth".


The Senate and Amphitheatre were created as a direct response to glaring issues that were apparrent in the JCC to allow for greater expansion of the community section of these forums to help lead into plans for retaining members to the boards post-RotS. I know, I helped create both of them. The Senate was a forgone conclusion as to it's viability because of the way in which the population of the JCC forced us to continue imposing restrictions on them because people could not deal with being able to discuss topics in a serious nature alongside threads that were pure fluff/spam. The Amphitheatre was ever so close to being packed in and re-integrated with the JCC two and a half years ago, but has been able to establish a firm and warranted identity through the efforts of two people in shaping what the forum should serve.

But the fact still remains that both of those forums were created to help ensure that after people appeared at these boards to post about RotS that there was a variety of niches served to make them stay after they had spent all their energy discussing SW. Whether or not these plans were followed through with over the last year or so is irrelevant to this discussion, as is trying to equate the purpose of their creation to that of a new Community based forum. The release of RotS is 5 months behind us, thus creating new forums has to be in mind of a purpose to serve a facet of the community that is growing and expanding, but failing to do so with the crush of the regular JCC threads.


It's rather clear here that a large number of people simply have no concept at all of what is actually required and involved in the running of a forum of the size of the JC. This isn't some place where the total number of users is in the thousands or even tens of thousands with maybe a hundred or so people in total logging in on a given day, where you know a majority of the people that end up posting for most of the day. This is a place that has over 200,000 registered users, anywhere from 200 people logged in at any one time during the entire day, a daily post count that is more than a tenth of the total amount of posts that exist on an average message board.

The JC is mired by the beurocracy that it has built up over the last 4 years, partially because of the consistent fashion that sections of the community of the boards seem to like pushing at the boundaries like young children until a wall is placed in front of them defining just how far they can go. Therefore things can't just be done on a whim, with a "let's see" attitude and hoping for the best outcome.


You want a sports forum, ergo you need to provide compelling arguements as to why is should be created that will be of a benefit to the boards as a whole.

Your proposal was found wanting (as it rightly should have been given the small scope and lack of detail that exist

 

Personal attacks aside, I fully understand the opposing view on this matter. Just because I disagree with it, doesn't mean I don't understand. Until the decision is made by the mods on whatever compromise they come up with, I can't be happy about, because I don't know what the compromise is. Also, how exactly was the proposal lacking in detail? Care to give an example so maybe I can elaborate?

 

DarthTunick posted on 10/1/05 10:01am

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[color=red]Also, how exactly was the proposal lacking in detail? Care to give an example so maybe I can elaborate?[/color]
[hr][/blockquote]

Well, just to point out [i]one[/i] minor detail on the proposal as it was presented...

[blockquote][b]Dingo[/b][hr] This is a place that has over 200,000 registered users, anywhere from 200 people logged in at any one time during the entire day
[hr][/blockquote]

The proposal had quotes from 6 people. 6 out of the several hundred that post regularly on JCC is now a large enough percentage to institute new policy? I'm simply pointing out one 'flaw', so to speak, in the proposal as it was made.

And before comment is made to such, let me say that No, this is not from an MS POV. This is from a user POV. Go back and re-read the thread, and you'll notice I made comment to potentially supporting an independent sports forum. However, after discussion of the issues involved, I tend to agree more with KW and dp4m on the issue. That said, as was stated, the discussion is still ongoing.

 

It would be best to not try and pin the blame for the failure of a sports forum on any perceived inadequacies in the proposal. Had it gone on for pages and pages and pages, digging into finer and finer detail, and spent insane amounts of time explaining all the different threads in the new forum and how great each one would've been... it still could not have escaped the fact that there is no practical need for a sports forum, and that the JCC is having no trouble supporting sports discussion.

The problem lies at the root of this, not in the finer points of a proposal.

 

Exactly what Everton said.

And to emphasize, I was giving Tunick the IMO answer on his question as to why the proposal was 'lacking', and just one specific example of that. The proposal , in and of itself, was fine. It is simply that the reasons in themselves for a sports forum is lacking.

 

No, I'm still the same guy I was last week. However I understand, after much discussion, when something just doesn't seem right. We've talked about it and being the objective person that I am, tend to agree that a entirely new Forum isn't something that's needed. But, if the JCC rules are more liberal on the creation of sports threads then I don't know what there is to complain about ... you still get to have certain threads outside of the existing threads.

To answer this, Malkie pointed out earlier in this thread that MS takes every situation serious, whether one User posts something, or 100,000. He also pointed out that the amount of Users that back something up doesn't change the fact that MS will review a situation, since they take everything on a serious note. With that said, I didn't intend for the Users' Opinion Section to merit that much stability in the Proposal, but it was nice to have. So that's why I didn't interview the entire JCC, it seemed unnecessary given Malkie's comments.

 

True, and as I said, I wasn't attempting to pick on the proposal itself. Tunick asked a specific question, I was simply giving a specific example. And again, that was purely from an IMO POV. You, of course, can most certainly see that the number of people that were quoted in the proposal has had no bearing on the discussion, nor has it even come up in it.

I'm sure if we wanted to nitpick the proposal itself, we very well could find issues from everyones individual point of views. That has not happened, nor has it factored into it, as Tunicks comment suggested.

 

One glaring problem that I'd like to point out in opening a Sports Forum is the need for moderators. And where on earth are you going to find a group of moderators who can objectively and intelligently moderate a forum dedicated to sports?

 

I renounce this thread.

 

I'm sure you could find some out there.

 

Well, to echo Sape, a sports forum is not happening, so that's a moot point.