Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Saga_Symphony, Nov 14, 2012.
Too bad they didn't keep 2003 general grievous.
That's a good thing. Why would they resort to a far-fetched interpretation when they already have the real deal?
I prefer the economy of Tartakovsky's Clone Wars. Anakin's duel with Ventress and the introduction of Greivous are among the best Star Wars TV moments for me.
I really like a lot of The Clone Wars, and there's no question it pushed the boundaries of television animation and Star Wars storytelling in general. But I think I'm also in the minority that would have liked it to have been much shorter series (3 seasons, one for each year of the war, 66 total episodes).
Grevious originally wasn't a coughing cowardly villain he only ended up like that because Mace Windu crippled him where as in TCW Grevious was always like that which they really did him dirty in that show to be honest TCW turned him into a joke. Also if Dave was truly trying to connect both versions at the beginning then it is still inconsistent because Grevious is a different character in that version as well as Anakin. Anakin in the 2008 TCW. honestly just feels like a completely different character to me it doesn't match up his character in the prequel films 2003 Anakin is more like prequel Anakin.
There's no denying that it's one of its strongest points. How it was able to convey so much with so little time.
Yes, he was. Genndy didn't know that at the time, that's why his interpretation was so different. By the time TCW was being made, there was no reason to ignore the actual character of Grievous and go with Genndy's (mis)interpretation of the character.
George originally designed Grievous to be a jedi killer not a cowardly cartoon villain skip to 8:10.
I'm very familiar with the conception of Grievous, I don't need any video.
Grievous was a Jedi killer and a coward villain. The two aren't, and never were, mutually exclusive.
And 03 Clone Wars did a better job with the character. If Dave really cared about continuity and lore which he doesn't and never did Grievous would have still been somewhat consistent and Mace Windu crippling him would still be canon instead of him always being a joke.
No, Genndy did what he wanted based on incomplete information about the character. Dave, unlike Genndy, worked with the guy who actually created Grievous, and thus had no need to rely on anyone's (mis)interpretation of the character.
P.S: Dave actually did care about EU lore and continuity, but fortunately he was first and foremost bound by what George dictated. So continuity with other people's interpretations was completely secondary and/or irrelevant, specially when they are incompatible with the real deal.
Dave often went against George Lucas's wishes and would change/alter his creative choices or go behind his back completely not to mention established EU characters like Ventress had their entire back story completely changed. Dave was the guy running the show and making most of the creative choices on TCW George just offered ideas and paid for the show he didn't actually write anything he was done with Star Wars after 2005 and during the early years of TCW he was still making movies like Indiana Jones 4 and Red Tails so he was still busy. As far as the 2003 Clone Wars yes Genndy had creative freedom to basically do whatever he wanted however he had to get approval from George first so George did help with the 03 Clone Wars and he wanted to make sure there was continuity between the 03 Clone Wars and the prequel films because ROTS hadn't come out yet.
You can dump as many videos as you like, but it's pointless.
Yes, when Lucas ceased to be involved Dave did his own thing, and it shows. But that's 10% of the series.
Yes, by George Lucas. What does that got to do with Grievous?
That's obviously false. George has been heavily involved with the series, and progressively more so in certain aspects as time went on. He was the one providing the stories of the episodes, he was the one in the writer's room breaking down the episodes into acts, he was the one giving approval at key stages of production and he was the one who had final cut on the finished episodes.
No, he didn't. Genndy had two meetings with George in the whole run of the show (and none were about stories or any sort of creative involvement). And no, he didn't need any approval from George. George liked the series well enough for what it was, but that doesn't mean he approved it as part of his universe.
And George was not done with Star Wars after 2005. He was done making movies, but he was creatively involved and in charge of both TCW and Underworld.
Where exactly is your proof for any of this? also maybe you should watch the videos instead of completely disregarding them and thinking you know everything.
George Lucas was involved and created the Clone Wars series. Here's a link to the article @Prequelfan93
And the quote.
It's all public knowledge. The proof is in all the information documented in interviews, documentaries, books and featurettes ever since 2007 (at least).
This was from the official site back in the day:
First of all, the argument about The Clone Wars breaking "continuity" or not fitting in the EU is absolutely irrelevant. The videos you have linked are irrelevant and pointless. It's like trying to prove why apples are not oranges. What's the point? For George Lucas, The Clone Wars was never a part of the EU, it was part of his Star Wars.
Second, about George supposedly "not caring" after 2005. First of all, he issued at least 100 episodes of highly expensive animated show, that he was directly involved in almost every day, and he did not intend to stop there, since they were planning to go for eight seasons, before it got cancelled by Disney. Second, he was working on the live-action Star Wars: Underworld television show, which would have been closely tied with George's The Clone Wars, specifically the arcs about bounty hunters and criminal underworld, and also early Rebellion with people like Saw Gerrera, would find their continuation there. Third, George Lucas was already gearing up to make his sequel trilogy. He was already writing outlines and talking with the actors, assessing resources. The sequels as you know would have been about Darth Maul, that was brought back by George in his The Clone Wars show, and his Criminal Empire, while Luke was on some kind of spiritual journey, akin to Yoda's Journey in The Clone Wars and Mortis Trilogy, which were all directly from George.
For your information, The Clone Wars development had begun before Revenge of the Sith even hit the theaters. George Lucas himself brought Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi into the spotlight of the show, and gave Anakin Skywalker a Padawan in 2005:
Initially, Filoni's pitch was about a brand new group of characters, a master and an apprentice assigned to the black market, and occasionally they would be called to participate in battles, like the Battle of Kamino or Mon Cala, and they would briefly witness Obi-Wan and Anakin, because Filoni was perfectly aware of the EU, and he did not want to disrupt it in any way. But that quickly changed, when George Lucas became directly involved. George Lucas was telling his vision of The Clone Wars, not what had come before him in the material he had no hand in, and was often at odds with his vision of Star Wars.
This also dismantles any possible argument about Anakin Skywalker being written "differently" from Lucas' vision, because yet again, it was Lucas who brought Anakin Skywalker into the show and gave him this particular characterization, and Lucas himself audited Matt Lanter at Skywalker Ranch.
Third, about supposed "retcon" and disrespect of General Grievous. He was already "disrespected" and "changed" in Revenge of the Sith by Lucas himself. See The Art of Revenge of the Sith:
I think I have provided enough proof for you, and everyone else who was still misinformed or ignorant on the matter. It is by far not everything, just a tiny bit on the points you have made, as @Alexrd said, it's all available online for you to read. You can prefer whatever interpretation of Clone Wars you like, but The Clone Wars is George Lucas' interpretation, whether you like it or not, and people often like to make a scapegoat of Filoni, as the big bad, who destroyed their EU and literally killed the continuity, when it's factually incorrect. What do you think would have happened, had George made his Sequel Trilogy? That would essentially wipe the entire post-RotJ EU. Who would you people blame then? And the notion as if Filoni did things in spite of Lucas is laughable. Changing the credits song in season 5 finale to a more somber one, instead of the usual blasting one was a good decision, because it was appropriate, and it doesn't mean anything, that the videos of yours try to "prove."
Indeed. It's amusingly ironic how Filoni gets the blame when actually he was the one who cared about the EU and respective continuity, and tried to shove it in whenever possible, despite the fact that it was meaningless to George.
Look George could have approved of or came up with a planet that was a farting butt in the Star Wars universe and it still wouldn't have made any sense he isn't perfect look at his garbage special edition changes and you really shouldn't completely disregard my links and say they are irrelevant because the fact of the matter is the continuity between the prequel films and TCW makes no sense which the guy in the videos points out and a lot of your sources only support what i said. TCW was George Lucas's idea and he helped with the show and came up with ideas but he wasn't a writer. As far as his sequel trilogy i seem to remember seeing him on TV in 2005 saying there was no episode 7 and that he decided to do a sequel trilogy because he changed his mind a few years later and George didn't completely disregard the EU people always take what he said out of context he meant that that it is not apart of his Star Wars his Star Wars is only his movies but the EU is a parallel universe that connects to his universe plus George contributed a lot to the EU as well.
I'll take TCW over the micro series. Like them both but I enjoy TCW a bit more.
Asajj vs Anakin in the micro series on Yavin 4 is about the most epic animated duel I think we've gotten in Star Wars though.
I think Anakin in the micro series lines up better with the Anakin we see in the prequel films. TCW Anakin doesn't seem exactly like nor sound like Hayden. I like TCW Anakin though, it's a fun character.
I see this thread has popped up again - I voted earlier but I can't remember if I commented. Anyway, TCW2008 - not even a contest. CW2003 did not connect with me in the slightest.
I voted a while back and my vote still stands, 2008 Clone Wars is better. I still have love for the 2003 CW but it isn’t as good. I will say Grievous’s intro in the 2003 CW was badass. If I remember right, it was the first time we officially saw the character in any medium. Then he wasn’t as scary in the 2008 CW, which was a let down.
You are free to think what you want, even though it is wrong.
It may be wrong but at least it makes sense the only reason TCW fans prefer TCW over the 03 Clone Wars is because a lot of these fans are underage kids born in like 2004 so they were exposed to TCW first and think it is the real Clone Wars when in reality it is a reboot that retcons established lore and continuity between the films and both George and Dave are to blame for that. The fact of the matter is 03 Clone Wars fits within the prequel films where as TCW does not and never will because it is fundamentally broken. Removed.
Oh come on! I'm in my mid thirties and I'm a big TCW fan. I've been one since I saw the TCW movie on opening day in 2008. I remember well when the micro series came out, and I remember the fan reactions to both it and TCW. Most regulars here probably do as well.
People can enjoy the Clone Wars in any form and not everyone hates Ahsoka. But that doesn't mean you can try to rile up other users because they don't share your opinions. Everyone likes what they like. Clone Wars or micro series.